I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful
children. One 4 and one infant.

My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more
than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of
leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything
herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that
way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is
driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way
again in the future?"

Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not
care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I
always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel
emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She
might say "I am just not that way"

This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe"
book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an
old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging.
She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book
talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel
that way about me.

When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my
x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess
not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they
still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why.

I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407120644.27284130@posting.google.c om... I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things.

Ask her about this and per part of your deal. You have to destroy this
diary, just as she destroyed yours.
I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

This is a normal feeling because you have an betrayed by her dishonesty.
You must speak to her about this. This is what relationships are about:
communication.

mac

Oh, man... You are Mr. Nice Guy aren't you.... Not good... Your
neediness and lack of masculinity are driving her away. Stop being such
a doormat.

I'm sending you a link via email that might save your marriage.

Thanks,

Mike

Danny wrote: I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) writes:
I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

1) Forget about the high-school boyfriend. You've been married to her
for 10 years, and he isn't part of the problem.

2) You say you are worried about her leaving you. But your post is
really about the fact that you don't have the kind of affection and
intimacy with your wife that you want.

You need to go to your wife and start talking about what you do
want, and what she wants. There are several possibilities about
what is going on. One is that you aren't giving her what _she_
wants, and that consciously or unconsciously she is angry and
resentful about that.

Another is that she is depressed. Having an infant is exhausing,
and so for that matter is having a 4 year old. If she is the
primary childcare person, you have to realize that not everyone is
cut out to take care of two preschool aged kids and still enjoy
their life.

Another is that she really doesn't love you anymore and wishes she
wasn't with you, but can't admit that to herself or to you.

This list of possibilities isn't meant to be complete.

3) I think that in order to have a relationship as good as what you
want, you need to be able to take the risk that it will fail. That
is, you have to understand what you want well enough to ask for it
and to convince your wife you really mean it. You also have to be
able to do the work that she might request.

In the kind of situation you describe it can sometimes be very hard to
start things moving in a positive direction just through your own
efforts, and I would recommend trying to find a good marriage
counselor to help get you started.

Doug

To be fair it was not really a diary, but one of those books that
seniors get to write about "their most embarasssing moment" or put
pictures in. It still bothered me immensely. It had several references
to him. She burned all my notes from my x-girlfriend 11 years ago.

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407121216.1d3fe182@posting.google.c om... To be fair it was not really a diary, but one of those books that seniors get to write about "their most embarasssing moment" or put pictures in. It still bothered me immensely. It had several references to him. She burned all my notes from my x-girlfriend 11 years ago.

This "note burning" crap should have been your first clue that something
wasn't right.

You are allowed to have a past, you know. And so is she.

Hi Danny,

Your wife may be holding onto the memories of her old BF, but you can
create new memories now of the good times that you and she can share.

You are the one who has been by her side for TEN YEARS! That is no
small potatoes, my friend.

Keep in perspective that her memory of him is that of a younger couple
and so much has happened to bring you together. You say you have made
some changes that she requested. That is great.

Now it is her turn.

She must make some changes as well.

As others have said, "communicate!"

I wish you well.

donna

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" <snip>

Okay, so she's wounded your pride. But the fact is that everyone,
at some time during their marriage is going to have thoughts of leaving.
And everyone keeps mementos of their past. Its perfectly natural. I
don't think that these things are the issue here. They're just items that
you are holding onto to rationalize your feelings of insecurity.

IMHO, you are caught in a codependence feedback loop in which your
very clinging and neediness is what's putting distance between you and
your wife, thus reinforcing your codependence. Her behavior is not
exactly exemplary, either. In giving you the silent treatment, she is
expressing her resentments in a passive aggressive manner. IMHO, you
both need counseling, but you also need to develop a life in which you
can find happiness and satisfaction from things that do not involve her.
[Roger]

You will find most people settle for someone that they don't really
want as much as someone else. Life is a funny thing for most and they
don't get what they want but they steal wish for it and dream about
it.

Learn a lesson and appreciate your kids. If he dumped her obviously he
knew something about her you didn't. If you get with damaged goods
don't wonder later on why they're no good. Good luck with feeling
better. Every hard lesson makes us stronger in the long run.

ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) wrote in
news:b5a3c339.0407120644.27284130@posting.google.c om:
I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

Here's the best advice you're going to get on Usenet:

You and your wife must see a marriage counsellor. Now.

From the way you describe it, there's a serious communication gap in your
marriage. Don't ignore this and hope things get better. See a
professional.

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FLyIc.40854$WX.31894@attbi_s51... ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) writes: I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way. 1) Forget about the high-school boyfriend. You've been married to her for 10 years, and he isn't part of the problem. 2) You say you are worried about her leaving you. But your post is really about the fact that you don't have the kind of affection and intimacy with your wife that you want. You need to go to your wife and start talking about what you do want, and what she wants. There are several possibilities about what is going on. One is that you aren't giving her what _she_ wants, and that consciously or unconsciously she is angry and resentful about that. Another is that she is depressed. Having an infant is exhausing, and so for that matter is having a 4 year old. If she is the primary childcare person, you have to realize that not everyone is cut out to take care of two preschool aged kids and still enjoy their life. Another is that she really doesn't love you anymore and wishes she wasn't with you, but can't admit that to herself or to you. This list of possibilities isn't meant to be complete. 3) I think that in order to have a relationship as good as what you want, you need to be able to take the risk that it will fail. That is, you have to understand what you want well enough to ask for it and to convince your wife you really mean it. You also have to be able to do the work that she might request. In the kind of situation you describe it can sometimes be very hard to start things moving in a positive direction just through your own efforts, and I would recommend trying to find a good marriage counselor to help get you started.

Very good suggestions.

Rambler

dakota2@my-deja.com (truthslament) wrote in message news:<3ec205f0.0407121520.322acf0f@posting.google.com>... If he dumped her obviously he knew something about her you didn't.

Complete Rubbish. He may of simply thought she wasn't "his" type.
Who hasn't been dumped besides the most elite of society?

"Ceazer XII" <brianzde@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:916cd0c.0407130031.6c75e4c@posting.google.com ... dakota2@my-deja.com (truthslament) wrote in message
news:<3ec205f0.0407121520.322acf0f@posting.google.com>... If he dumped her obviously he knew something about her you didn't. Complete Rubbish. He may of simply thought she wasn't "his" type. Who hasn't been dumped besides the most elite of society?

Everyone has been dumped, even the most beautiful women. It's only the
loser who believe they are the only ones being dumped on. It's all part of
life. Those who get over it go on to become successful. Those who don't,
stay losers.

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407120644.27284130@posting.google.c om... I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.

Hi Danny...
Just a few thoughts.

First, everything you read in that book she wrote back in high school. It
is not "almost an infatuation", it is EXACTLY an infatuation. Infatuation
by definition is not real love. It is not like she feels that way now. If
he was so great, she would still be with him. There is some reason that
they are not together and you are. I agree with the others that she had no
business burning your old memories, but I assume you acquiesced to that.
She may not even know she has that old book still lying about.

Secondly, THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CHANGE IS YOU. Sorry I shouted. You can
cajole, beg, wish...but you can not change your wife. She can. But you can
change the way that you react to her. I am so sorry that this is making you
feel so sad and rejected. Believe me, I can fully understand your feeling
of not being desired. I lived that life for over 20 years. If once she was
affectionate, and now she is not, try to see what else is different. Have
there been extra work stresses put on her? Small children? Trust issues?
Loss of close family members? ALL of those things will change the way
that people show affection. It does not necessarily mean that the affection
is not there. If she has never been a touchy feely kind of person, then you
need to ask why you need her to be NOW.

I agree that the best thing you can do is to get into couples therapy. And
in the meantime...try shaking up the "status quo". Do something that
neither of you have ever done before. Take a class together or join a
social group. Make a set-in-stone "date night" once a week, or every other
week that is your time together no matter what. Neither of you are the same
person you were when you met 10 years ago. Get to know each other again.
Find out things about her that you never knew. Ask open ended questions
("what is your dream job?" "if you could live any where on the planet where
would you pick and why?" "describe your idea of a perfect day?" etc). You
may never have someone that wants to be held all the time...not everyone is
wired that way. But you may find new ways of connecting with her that are
just as emotionally satisfying for you, and less threatening to her.

Best of luck to you Danny. And please keep everyone here appraised of how
things are going. Actually, all of these conversations are a pretty big ice
breaker. Have you considered printing them out and sharing them with her?

Momma

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407120644.27284130@posting.google.c om... I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way"

A marriage is going along fine, until the stupid fat ***** turns on her TV
and sees show after show about how men should be keeping the spark in the
marriage. Then they suddenly feel shortchanged and like they need someone
else to make it like it was at the beginning. What they don't realise, of
course, is the fact it's not like THEY are doing anything themselves to make
the marriage better. Oprah tells them that it's all the man's
responsibility.

Don't let your wife watch any more Oprah or Dr. Phil.

Danny wrote:
I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" This weekend I was helping cleaning the house and found a "keepsafe" book of when she was in high school. It had several references to an old boyfriend and even still had a picture of the two of them hugging. She looked happy and very affectionate. Every page in that darn book talked about him. Almost like an infatuation. I long for her to feel that way about me. When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. I thought she had done the same of her things. I guess not. This guy still lives in the same town. I think the reason they still are not toghter is he broke up with her but I dont know why. I am just sad and I dont like feeling this way.


Just an opinion based on my experience of similar feelings toward my
husband, soon to be ex.

It looks as though you are indeed attempting to work things out and she
seems to notice this, which is a start. I'd keep it up, but like
someone said, stir it up a little. For quite some time, my husband is
of little attraction to me...couple issues, but anyway there are some
things he could do that would make him more attractive (I'm not talking
only looks.) For instance, if he planned a nice meal out to my favorite
restaurant (or even made my favorite meal) that took some preparations
more than usual and then planned an outing (horseback riding or couple
massage for example). I may see him in a whole different light when the
full focus would be on me and my content for a little bit. I know I
complain that he didn't/doesn't do anything, but whether or not it is
true, he simply lacks trying to do something that would make ME feel
special and happy. Helping around the house should be expected in many
cases (not saying that you have to do everything and it depends on the
situation.) But the point is, showing some initiative that you went out
of your way to do something specifically for her could go a long way.
And when you do plan something, make sure it would be something she may
have mentioned that would be fun. (For instance, my husband talked me
into taking a basic motorcycle riding course...he tried to make it sound
like we would both have fun, but in reality, it would have been the last
thing on my list that I would have liked to have done.) One other
suggestion, next time you may ask for a hug, tell her how wonderful her
hugs are or something along that line, it will let her know that you
really do enjoy them - and it's generally human nature to do the simple
things to make other's feel good.

People fall in love with someone that makes them feel special and
desired. It's difficult to love someone who is needy, so I highly
suggest counseling for yourself to start. Then when your spirits are up
and you actually feel secure enough to discuss any scary issues, invite
her to join you in counseling. Happiness does spread and it changes
one's own outlook in life.

As for the ex boyfriend stuff. Let it go. You won't resolve anything by
discussing it.

Best of luck

You mean you feel your husband does not give you enough attention so
you feel like me or you feel like my wife?

In article <2li7n4Fd9padU1@uni-berlin.de>, darkfalz@xis.com.au
says... "Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message news:b5a3c339.0407120644.27284130@posting.google.c om... I have been married to my wife for 10 years. We have 2 beautiful children. One 4 and one infant. My wife has never been very "touchy feely". She used tobe alot more than she is now. Last year she told me she had had thoughts of leaving. At the time because she felt as if she had to do everything herself. I help out tremendously now. She says she does not feel that way anymore. But just the thought that she even contemplated than is driving me crazy. I keep thinking, "is she going to feel that way again in the future?" Anyway, I love her alot. She just acts sometimes as if she does not care for me, no hugs no affection, no I love You nothing unless I always initiate it and even then it is a quick "love you too". I feel emotioally starved. I have told her this and she says nothing. She might say "I am just not that way" A marriage is going along fine, until the stupid fat ***** turns on her TV and sees show after show about how men should be keeping the spark in the marriage. Then they suddenly feel shortchanged and like they need someone else to make it like it was at the beginning. What they don't realise, of course, is the fact it's not like THEY are doing anything themselves to make the marriage better.


Yep - she's got you by the nuts and she knows it. "Thoughts of
leaving?" she is being cruel and vindictive. Unfortunately you
are not the only husband afflicted by rotten uncaring wives.
She's American? If she is, your story is all too familiar.

Oprah tells them that it's all the man's responsibility. Don't let your wife watch any more Oprah or Dr. Phil.
Better yet, ditch her - she's dead weight. Accept that she is
not worthy of your devotion, find a good lawyer, and divorce her.
There are so many fish in the sea, you have no idea.


www.nomarriage.com

www.americanwomensuck.com

In article <l_ZIc.2879$uU4.1812@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, rcblinn-xxx-
@bellsouth.net (Roger B.) says... IMHO, you are caught in a codependence feedback loop in which your very clinging and neediness is what's putting distance between you and your wife, thus reinforcing your codependence. Her behavior is not exactly exemplary, either. In giving you the silent treatment, she is expressing her resentments in a passive aggressive manner. IMHO, you both need counseling, but you also need to develop a life in which you can find happiness and satisfaction from things that do not involve her. [Roger]

Bingo.
Ditto.
Yeah, what he said.

These people are really good at making each other miserable.

cj <cj@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<XfZIc.17$FZ.13@lakeread06>... Just an opinion based on my experience of similar feelings toward my husband, soon to be ex. It looks as though you are indeed attempting to work things out and she seems to notice this, which is a start. I'd keep it up, but like someone said, stir it up a little. For quite some time, my husband is of little attraction to me...couple issues, but anyway there are some things he could do that would make him more attractive (I'm not talking only looks.) For instance, if he planned a nice meal out to my favorite restaurant (or even made my favorite meal) that took some preparations more than usual and then planned an outing (horseback riding or couple massage for example). I may see him in a whole different light when the full focus would be on me and my content for a little bit. I know I complain that he didn't/doesn't do anything, but whether or not it is true, he simply lacks trying to do something that would make ME feel special and happy. Helping around the house should be expected in many cases (not saying that you have to do everything and it depends on the situation.) But the point is, showing some initiative that you went out of your way to do something specifically for her could go a long way. And when you do plan something, make sure it would be something she may have mentioned that would be fun. (For instance, my husband talked me into taking a basic motorcycle riding course...he tried to make it sound like we would both have fun, but in reality, it would have been the last thing on my list that I would have liked to have done.) One other suggestion, next time you may ask for a hug, tell her how wonderful her hugs are or something along that line, it will let her know that you really do enjoy them - and it's generally human nature to do the simple things to make other's feel good. People fall in love with someone that makes them feel special and desired. It's difficult to love someone who is needy, so I highly suggest counseling for yourself to start. Then when your spirits are up and you actually feel secure enough to discuss any scary issues, invite her to join you in counseling. Happiness does spread and it changes one's own outlook in life. As for the ex boyfriend stuff. Let it go. You won't resolve anything by discussing it. Best of luck

Ugh.. Your both sobbing. Do something about it. I feel for you
CJ, divorce is hard, but you need to realize he is still trying to
work it out himself, and with her?
Danny, I don't think there was any advice there, or at least
not any good advice. If you feel like your not getting attention or
affection you need, you have to tell your partner, not hint around at
it, and not hide it. If they are unwilling to meet your needs after
you have spelled it out, then suggest counseling.
And, "similar feelings toward my husband, soon to be ex" is a
major red flag. Whatever she suggests didn't work for her, why would
you want to try it? If you don't feel loved, trying to do more for
them will likely result in them pulling away even more and accusing
you of smothering them.
The only solution is clear and honest communication. Don't play
games, unless you think divorce might be a fun game too. After you've
talked it out, you will know where you stand. Maybe she will be
willing to meet your needs, but never knew what they were. Maybe she
won't meet your needs, and you can find another way to deal with it.
Maybe she won't, and you won't, and then you know and choose what to
do from there.
CJ, depending on how far along your divorce is, maybe you should
try communicating your needs too. Or, maybe your next husband will be
a psychic?

Magg's

"Mike" wrote...
Oh, man... You are Mr. Nice Guy aren't you.... Not good... Your
neediness and lack of masculinity are driving her away. Stop being such a
doormat.

Hell yeah!!!

"Ktulu-Spiral" <ktulu_spiral@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40f6daaf@dnews.tpgi.com.au>... "Mike" wrote... Oh, man... You are Mr. Nice Guy aren't you.... Not good... Your neediness and lack of masculinity are driving her away. Stop being such a doormat. Hell yeah!!!

Oh, no lack of bad advice here for this poor guy.

Although, on the surface, your right, it will not stop anything here.
There is a cycle going on, it takes two to complete the cycle, and it
will take two to break the cycle.

Clearly he has to stop being a doormat, but that will not stop the
problem from happening. His immediate need is for affection,
something he has clearly expressed to us, and needs to express to her.

He is feeling needy, a condition of being human, and men are not
exempt from this condition. A man that never had "feelings" would not
be capable of love. These needs need to be meet. Being needy is not
the problem here.

So, I would say, he needs to step up to the plate, and communicate the
needs. She needs to step up, and meet some of those needs.

If he stops being a doormat, all passion will be gone, since it seems
she has already removed it on her part. That is not a relationship.

This is a co-dependant cycle, and nothing he can do alone will resolve
it. He needs to stop being a doormat, true. But unless she releases
some affection, it won't stop the cycle. He will still have those
needs, they will not be meet, and he is even more likely to return to
being the doormat.

It's going to take to people trying to break this cycle. He needs to
express his needs, and be willing to accept that he may only get part
of them meet. She needs to meet some of them, and realize that by
making him feel loved, he is more likely to be secure and more "manly"
and therefore, more attractive to her.

Again, I can't express enough, it's going to take TWO to break the
cycle. Any one of them doesn't live up to the bargain, and the other
will quickly step back into the very thing that caused the nasty cycle
to start in the first place.

maggiepoo321@yahoo.com (MaggiePoo) writes:
"Ktulu-Spiral" <ktulu_spiral@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40f6daaf@dnews.tpgi.com.au>... "Mike" wrote... Oh, man... You are Mr. Nice Guy aren't you.... Not good... Your neediness and lack of masculinity are driving her away. Stop being such a doormat. Hell yeah!!! Oh, no lack of bad advice here for this poor guy. Although, on the surface, your right, it will not stop anything here. There is a cycle going on, it takes two to complete the cycle, and it will take two to break the cycle. Clearly he has to stop being a doormat, but that will not stop the problem from happening. His immediate need is for affection, something he has clearly expressed to us, and needs to express to her. He is feeling needy, a condition of being human, and men are not exempt from this condition. A man that never had "feelings" would not be capable of love. These needs need to be meet. Being needy is not the problem here. So, I would say, he needs to step up to the plate, and communicate the needs. She needs to step up, and meet some of those needs. If he stops being a doormat, all passion will be gone, since it seems she has already removed it on her part. That is not a relationship.

All passion is _already_ gone. No doubt you are right that if she
steps up it will be helpful. But guess what, she isn't reading this.
The opinions here tend to be addressed to what the poster can do,
since the poster can't make someone else do things.
This is a co-dependant cycle, and nothing he can do alone will resolve it.

_That_ isn't necessarily true, though it may well be.
He needs to stop being a doormat, true. But unless she releases some affection, it won't stop the cycle. He will still have those needs, they will not be meet, and he is even more likely to return to being the doormat. It's going to take to people trying to break this cycle. He needs to express his needs, and be willing to accept that he may only get part of them meet. She needs to meet some of them, and realize that by making him feel loved, he is more likely to be secure and more "manly" and therefore, more attractive to her. Again, I can't express enough, it's going to take TWO to break the cycle. Any one of them doesn't live up to the bargain, and the other will quickly step back into the very thing that caused the nasty cycle to start in the first place.

All reasonable, but what can be helpful to him is what can _he_ do?
How can he express his needs in a way which will get them met is the
trick. Telling him what his wife _should_ do isn't likely to help him
much.

Doug Anderson wrote: maggiepoo321@yahoo.com (MaggiePoo) writes:"Ktulu-Spiral" <ktulu_spiral@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40f6daaf@dnews.tpgi.com.au>..."Mike" wrote... All passion is _already_ gone. No doubt you are right that if she steps up it will be helpful. But guess what, she isn't reading this. The opinions here tend to be addressed to what the poster can do, since the poster can't make someone else do things. All reasonable, but what can be helpful to him is what can _he_ do? How can he express his needs in a way which will get them met is the trick. Telling him what his wife _should_ do isn't likely to help him much.

Doug, I agree with you. But...

He has to be able to identify the pattern, or he can't break it. And,
if her behavior is part of the pattern, he needs to see it.

You couldn't be more right, he, or we, can not change her behavior.
However, I was trying to point out to him that without seeing it in
context, he can't see if it's getting better or worse.

What his wife should do (show a little more affection) is something he
has to look for now. But, not only from the context of meeting his
needs. He needs to also look for if she trying to make this work at all.

Which brings me back to him stepping up to the plate, and clearly
stating to her what he needs. He can request a change in her behavior,
and open a dialog. And I think that is the most direct way to try to
resolve things.

Unless he is man enough to express his needs, he is going to be resigned
to an unhappy existence as a doormat. Unless he can see how to identify
her behavior with perspective outside of his own personal needs, he will
be unable to determine if things are getting better or worse.

Relationships are a delicate balance to start with. And if he has a
tendency to feel needy, and she has a withdraw and avoidance behavior
pattern, both of them would need complete awareness of the pattern and
how their behaviors affect one another.

I'd say it would take counseling to make both see it, and learn new
relationship skills to avoid it. And, I'll still say that. If he can
identify progress on his own, he can make a decision to request
counseling if he does not see progress.

But, first, he needs to step up to the plate and clearly state his needs
to her. Next, look for her reaction. Is it back into the pattern of
withdraw, or immediate response to the need. And, finally, he needs to
react to this from the perspective of breaking the cycle, not happiness
from his needs being meet or sadness from being isolated.

He has the choice to control his own behavior, but not hers. Therefore
what he really needs is the ability to judge her behavior now more than
ever. Her behavior is more likely to influence how the next step should
be taken, not his. He needs to see what to expect from her, and how to
react to it.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:45:35 GMT, Lash Rambo <lrambo@obmarl.com>
wrote:

<snip>Here's the best advice you're going to get on Usenet: You and your wife must see a marriage counsellor. Now.From the way you describe it, there's a serious communication gap in yourmarriage. Don't ignore this and hope things get better. See aprofessional.

I agree.

-- RK

On 13 Jul 2004 01:31:57 -0700, brianzde@hotmail.com (Ceazer XII)
wrote:
dakota2@my-deja.com (truthslament) wrote in message news:<3ec205f0.0407121520.322acf0f@posting.google.com>... If he dumped her obviously he knew something about her you didn't.Complete Rubbish. He may of simply thought she wasn't "his" type.

I agree. Some people are just not compatible -- it doesn't mean
there's something wrong with her (or him, for that matter).
Who hasn't been dumped besides the most elite of society?

I've never been dumped! :-D

(OK, so I've never been on a date, either ... what's your point?)

-- RK

I have kind of felt this way too. How do I "attract" other women
without actually being involved with them? I am kind of quiet and have
always been this way.

What do you mean my savings or whatever is "questionable"?

How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want to
be with me?

Danny,

When I was in your position I put an ad on a singles website. I felt good
when other women were attracted to me, and I ended up meeting my current
girlfriend this way.

Be very careful. You don't want to destroy your marriage if it can work
out. Post a picture of yourself on "hotornot.com" to see what others think
of you, just for fun. You may realize that you are not dog meat after all!

Good luck!

RJ

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407190715.2acfe98b@posting.google.c om... I have kind of felt this way too. How do I "attract" other women without actually being involved with them? I am kind of quiet and have always been this way. What do you mean my savings or whatever is "questionable"? How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want to be with me?

"RJ" <notreal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:SRUKc.24092$B64.17323@newssvr27.news.prodigy. com... Danny, When I was in your position I put an ad on a singles website. I felt
good when other women were attracted to me, and I ended up meeting my current girlfriend this way. Be very careful. You don't want to destroy your marriage if it can work out. Post a picture of yourself on "hotornot.com" to see what others
think of you, just for fun. You may realize that you are not dog meat after
all! Good luck! RJ "Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message news:b5a3c339.0407190715.2acfe98b@posting.google.c om... I have kind of felt this way too. How do I "attract" other women without actually being involved with them? I am kind of quiet and have always been this way. What do you mean my savings or whatever is "questionable"? How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want to be with me?

Danny,
Be very careful with this line of attack. Let me be the devil's advocate
here for a minute

.... you go online and start a cyber relationship with a woman who thinks you
are just the bee's knees. She awakens part of you that you thought were
dead. You find out that she is only an hour or whatever away from you and
at some point, you decide to meet, and a very exciting affair ensues. THEN
your wife finds out.
If you think things are strained between the two of you now, you can not
even begin to imagine that day. Right now you can say to yourself and her,
that you have taken the moral highroad. Another woman...ANY other woman
would be very exciting. Every new relationship is. It is only when they
stand up to the light of day (and housework, bills, kids, extended families
etc etc) that they really become an exchange with a life partner. Are you
willing to risk throwing away your marriage? If you are, then you are
beyond the point that you originally stated where you said you really wanted
to work things out with your wife. I can PROMISE YOU with no uncertainty
whatsoever that if you persue a relationship with someone else, you are
saying goodbye to your family. And if you are really willing to do that,
why not do it in the right order so that you can hold your head up. Start
divorce proceedings and begin separation FIRST. And think of the woman that
you may meet.... if you start a relationship with someone now she is doomed
to forever be "The Other Woman".. the one that broke up your marriage. It
will not matter that your marriage was already in the dumpster (if that is
where it is) SHE will be blamed.
You can not emotionally blackmail someone into loving and wanting you. If
you want your wife, work things out with her. If you want another
relationship with someone you feel more desires you, then end what you have
first.
IMHO
Momma

Danny,

I completely agree with Momma here. I realized that my marriage was over
before I did this. It sounds like you are doing the right things with just
working out, and doing some things for yourself.

Hang in there. I had a very tough time with this. Good to hear that your
kneighbor's wife know's what is going on.

One other thing. I had a hell of a time with her affair because I never
KNEW it was over. I did not get any closure. You may want to install some
software on your computer to track what takes place on it. Be prepared for
the worst if you do this. I found a bunch of love letters on my STBX's work
email. You might also find out if they IM each other during the day.

Good luck, and I am very sorry to hear about your dilema.

RJ

"Everyboysmomma" <noway@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:NQVKc.75518$bp1.37103@twister.nyroc.rr.com... "RJ" <notreal@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:SRUKc.24092$B64.17323@newssvr27.news.prodigy. com... Danny, When I was in your position I put an ad on a singles website. I
felt good when other women were attracted to me, and I ended up meeting my
current girlfriend this way. Be very careful. You don't want to destroy your marriage if it can
work out. Post a picture of yourself on "hotornot.com" to see what others think of you, just for fun. You may realize that you are not dog meat after all! Good luck! RJ "Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message news:b5a3c339.0407190715.2acfe98b@posting.google.c om... I have kind of felt this way too. How do I "attract" other women without actually being involved with them? I am kind of quiet and
have always been this way. What do you mean my savings or whatever is "questionable"? How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want
to be with me? Danny, Be very careful with this line of attack. Let me be the devil's
advocate here for a minute ... you go online and start a cyber relationship with a woman who thinks
you are just the bee's knees. She awakens part of you that you thought were dead. You find out that she is only an hour or whatever away from you
and at some point, you decide to meet, and a very exciting affair ensues.
THEN your wife finds out. If you think things are strained between the two of you now, you can not even begin to imagine that day. Right now you can say to yourself and
her, that you have taken the moral highroad. Another woman...ANY other woman would be very exciting. Every new relationship is. It is only when
they stand up to the light of day (and housework, bills, kids, extended
families etc etc) that they really become an exchange with a life partner. Are
you willing to risk throwing away your marriage? If you are, then you are beyond the point that you originally stated where you said you really
wanted to work things out with your wife. I can PROMISE YOU with no
uncertainty whatsoever that if you persue a relationship with someone else, you are saying goodbye to your family. And if you are really willing to do
that, why not do it in the right order so that you can hold your head up.
Start divorce proceedings and begin separation FIRST. And think of the woman
that you may meet.... if you start a relationship with someone now she is
doomed to forever be "The Other Woman".. the one that broke up your marriage.
It will not matter that your marriage was already in the dumpster (if that
is where it is) SHE will be blamed. You can not emotionally blackmail someone into loving and wanting you.
If you want your wife, work things out with her. If you want another relationship with someone you feel more desires you, then end what you
have first. IMHO Momma

ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) wrote in
news:b5a3c339.0407190715.2acfe98b@posting.google.c om:
I have kind of felt this way too. How do I "attract" other women without actually being involved with them? I am kind of quiet and have always been this way. What do you mean my savings or whatever is "questionable"? How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want to be with me?

Search for Double Your Dating and follow it to the last page.

I just want to clear up some people that might misunderstand me. I
absolutely do not want to "find" someone else or "date" someone else.
I would never cheat on my wife no matter how bad it got.

I am kind of shy and i dont think I look as "good" as i did when I was
younger. I guess I have some issues with that. I would love it if
other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make
me feel better about myself.
My wife sometimes tells me sarcastically that I should have been a
women because I al always worrying about my weight and things. I have
obese people in my family and I am worried about ending up that way.

I guess I am a little self concious. I am not fat. I always have a
bad hair day and because of the hair I have no one not even
haridressers can help me with it. I would abolutely love to post my
picture to the "hot or not" but am afraid I will be disappointed with
how I am rated. ALso afraid someone I know might see me. It would
definitely make me fele great if I was rated very high but if I was
rated less than a 7 or 8 it would bother me. (Is that vain?)

I looked on that page and it seemed women on average were rated much
higher than men.

Am I a basket case?

In article <b5a3c339.0407200730.33935c1a@posting.google.com>, Danny wrote: I am kind of shy and i dont think I look as "good" as i did when I was younger. I guess I have some issues with that. I would love it if other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make me feel better about myself.

You can look considerably better if you exercise and work towards that
goal.

i

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407200730.33935c1a@posting.google.c om...
I would love it if other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make me feel better about myself.

Careful. You might get what you want. Then what are you going to do with
it?

Ted

ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) wrote in
news:b5a3c339.0407200730.33935c1a@posting.google.c om:
I just want to clear up some people that might misunderstand me. I absolutely do not want to "find" someone else or "date" someone else. I would never cheat on my wife no matter how bad it got. I am kind of shy and i dont think I look as "good" as i did when I was younger. I guess I have some issues with that. I would love it if other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make me feel better about myself. My wife sometimes tells me sarcastically that I should have been a women because I al always worrying about my weight and things. I have obese people in my family and I am worried about ending up that way. I guess I am a little self concious. I am not fat. I always have a bad hair day and because of the hair I have no one not even haridressers can help me with it. I would abolutely love to post my picture to the "hot or not" but am afraid I will be disappointed with how I am rated. ALso afraid someone I know might see me. It would definitely make me fele great if I was rated very high but if I was rated less than a 7 or 8 it would bother me. (Is that vain?) I looked on that page and it seemed women on average were rated much higher than men. Am I a basket case?

Even if you don't want to have an affair, you have to make her see what
she is risking of losing. Make her feel that her convenient little world
of cheat and *****y indifference is now at risk. Even if you finally get
rid of her, which sounds quite a possibility, you will have acquired some
skills which will be useful in the long run. You can thank me later.

Danny's post:
I just want to clear up some people that might misunderstand me. I absolutely do not want to "find" someone else or "date" someone else. I would never cheat on my wife no matter how bad it got. I am kind of shy and i dont think I look as "good" as i did when I was younger. I guess I have some issues with that. I would love it if other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make me feel better about myself. My wife sometimes tells me sarcastically that I should have been a women because I al always worrying about my weight and things. I have obese people in my family and I am worried about ending up that way. I guess I am a little self concious. I am not fat. I always have a bad hair day and because of the hair I have no one not even haridressers can help me with it. I would abolutely love to post my picture to the "hot or not" but am afraid I will be disappointed with how I am rated. ALso afraid someone I know might see me. It would definitely make me fele great if I was rated very high but if I was rated less than a 7 or 8 it would bother me. (Is that vain?) I looked on that page and it seemed women on average were rated much higher than men. Am I a basket case?

No you're probably not a basket case... I wouldn't like to know my rating
either, but it's still nice to know you're attractive even if you don't feel
you can be. Just being married doesn't mean you are or ever have been (or
will remain) attractive. So it really boosts your ego/self esteem when
someone says something nice about how you look or what you say. That's
normal for most people... basket case or not.

"Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:b5a3c339.0407200730.33935c1a@posting.google.c om... I just want to clear up some people that might misunderstand me. I absolutely do not want to "find" someone else or "date" someone else. I would never cheat on my wife no matter how bad it got. I am kind of shy and i dont think I look as "good" as i did when I was younger. I guess I have some issues with that. I would love it if other women noticed me, not so I could get wih them but it would make me feel better about myself. My wife sometimes tells me sarcastically that I should have been a women because I al always worrying about my weight and things. I have obese people in my family and I am worried about ending up that way. I guess I am a little self concious. I am not fat. I always have a bad hair day and because of the hair I have no one not even haridressers can help me with it. I would abolutely love to post my picture to the "hot or not" but am afraid I will be disappointed with how I am rated. ALso afraid someone I know might see me. It would definitely make me fele great if I was rated very high but if I was rated less than a 7 or 8 it would bother me. (Is that vain?) I looked on that page and it seemed women on average were rated much higher than men. Am I a basket case?

Yes. You have self esteem problems. Fix those, and you will fix the rest
of the things. If you have a "bad hair day" continually, then think about
getting it shaved or close cropped. Beauty comes from the inside, and
unless you project it and feel it and believe it, you might get a stare or
two, but the vacuous follow-on will be deafening.

Rambler

No, no affairs I am aware of or expect.

Seriously, should I post a picture or not? I am not sure. Maybe I
could send it to some of you guys and you tell me what you think? Then
again, I think most people would be afraid to offer criticizm to
someone. (Which is nice)but not necessarily honest.

I guess in the off chance everyone honestly thought I was a 9 or 10
that it would boost my self confidence.

Go on, show us a photo of yourself then. I'm intrigued now.



ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) wrote in message news:<b5a3c339.0407220647.1fc85d37@posting.google.com>... I guess in the off chance everyone honestly thought I was a 9 or 10 that it would boost my self confidence.

By all means I am not saying I am a 9 or 10. I dont think I am near
that. Please dont think that I am because i am not.

I am buying a digital camera this weekend. If I get the courage I
could e-mail it to anyone wanting to see.

Am I crazy?

> From: ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend.

She had no right to do any such thing. She's a complete ***** to do
that, and you're a stupid doormat to have let her, and you're an idiot
to have gone ahead to marry her. Or you were totally desperate.

I suggest you immediately seek to meet some nicer woman, and as soon as
you find one, divorce your wife, and get custody of the children on
grounds that she's an unfit person who abuses people around her.

If you want to cause her emotional pain as she has caused you, tear all
those photos etc. of her ex-boyfriend out of her album, and put them in
your safe deposit box, but tell her that you tore them out and burned
them. Never let her know you didn't burn them.

<RobertMaas@YahooGroups.Com> wrote in message
news:REM-2004jul23-006@Yahoo.Com... From: ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) When we started dating she burned all the old notes and pictures of my x-girlfriend. She had no right to do any such thing. She's a complete ***** to do that, and you're a stupid doormat to have let her, and you're an idiot to have gone ahead to marry her. Or you were totally desperate. I suggest you immediately seek to meet some nicer woman, and as soon as you find one, divorce your wife, and get custody of the children on grounds that she's an unfit person who abuses people around her. If you want to cause her emotional pain as she has caused you, tear all those photos etc. of her ex-boyfriend out of her album, and put them in your safe deposit box, but tell her that you tore them out and burned them. Never let her know you didn't burn them.

Wow, Robert... you poked alot of bees nests with sticks as a kid, didn't
you???

"RJ" <notreal@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<SRUKc.24092$B64.17323@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>... Danny, When I was in your position I put an ad on a singles website. I felt good when other women were attracted to me, and I ended up meeting my current girlfriend this way. Be very careful. You don't want to destroy your marriage if it can work out. Post a picture of yourself on "hotornot.com" to see what others think of you, just for fun. You may realize that you are not dog meat after all! Good luck! RJ "Danny" <ALWAYSLONELY8@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message news:b5a3c339.0407190715.2acfe98b@posting.google.c om... How do I attract these other people and get them to notice me/want to be with me?

Dan,

You have to start with your inner self. Right now, you are too reliant
on the opinion of your wife and others for your own sense of
self-worth. This is a formula for disaster.

You have to build your own sense of self-worth by your ability to
stick to your principals and commitments to yourself. Demonstrate to
yourself that you can control your own behavior. Make a commitment to
do something like give up watching television for a day - or an hour -
and stick with it. Each time you do something like this, your sense of
self-confidence and self-esteem will become more grounded.

Start thinking in terms of enhancing the lives of people around you -
not the reverse. Right now you're looking for love and affection from
your wife. Forget it - it won't happen. Instead, think of her in terms
of a human being who has a problem. She may be bored or feel
underappreciated. Help her in some way, maybe by listening to her
chat, or hanging around with her for a half-hour or something. But,
don't expect or hope for anything in return. Think of it as volunteer
work. Anyone who's ever done work for a cause larger cause than
themselves knows the sense of peace that comes from doing something
besides serving ones own ends. Do some volunteer work in the community
as well. Do it not to meet girls, but to enhance your sense of
self-worth by being of service to others.

Then, when your wife puts you down, you can brush it off. You know
what you are and what you are doing in terms of committments to
yourself and others, whether she does or not. Sooner or later she will
recognize it. And if she doesn't - so what? You do, and you will be
living a worthwhile life, and that's the important thing.

Best Regards,
Sam90

> From: "Everyboysmomma" <noway@maine.rr.com> you poked alot of bees nests with sticks as a kid, didn't you???

Fact is I never did even once. You seem to like to post complete lies
about people you know nothing about, derogatory lies at that.
Where did you pick up that bad habit?

> From: "Everyboysmomma" <noway@maine.rr.com> you poked alot of bees nests with sticks as a kid, didn't you???

Fact is I never did even once. You seem to like to post complete lies
about people you know nothing about, derogatory lies at that.
Where did you pick up that bad habit?

<RobertMaas@YahooGroups.Com> wrote in message
news:REM-2004jul28-006@Yahoo.Com... From: "Everyboysmomma" <noway@maine.rr.com> you poked alot of bees nests with sticks as a kid, didn't you??? Fact is I never did even once. You seem to like to post complete lies about people you know nothing about, derogatory lies at that. Where did you pick up that bad habit?

ummm Girl Scout Camp??
And in case you didn't understand the comment, it is meant to say "you like
to stir up trouble"
Not really a lie going back over your posts.
Easy Boy...easy

<RobertMaas@YahooGroups.Com> wrote in message
news:REM-2004jul28-006@Yahoo.Com... From: "Everyboysmomma" <noway@maine.rr.com> you poked alot of bees nests with sticks as a kid, didn't you??? Fact is I never did even once. You seem to like to post complete lies about people you know nothing about, derogatory lies at that. Where did you pick up that bad habit?

ummm Girl Scout Camp??
And in case you didn't understand the comment, it is meant to say "you like
to stir up trouble"
Not really a lie going back over your posts.
Easy Boy...easy