my ex and i are fighting for custody. we each have lawyers. we just had a Pre-trial confrence on 11-6-06. i have a book of my ex-girlfriends that has a suicide letter that she wrote with her blood all over it. now, i have taken this book to court with me in the past(when i had no lawyer) and they didn't even want to see it. at this past hearing, my lawyer brought it up, and she denied that it was hers, said that she had "never seen it before in her life." the judge doesn't want anything to do with it. whether the suicide note existed or not, i still strongly believe that she needs a mental evaluation. How do you prove something like that when they'll believe any lie that she tells? how do i go about this? any sugestions are greatly appreciated, Thank you.

How old is this suicide letter? If it is not recent, then it is worthless.

its not that recent, but even with out it, i still believe that she needs the evaluation. I believe that she shows signs of Bi-polar disorder.

do you have anything to back up your claims? See, a judge is not just going to take your word without proof. It's a pretty common tactic for one party to try to disparage the other in a court proceeding. I'm not saying you are lying. I am saying that you have to have proof. Even if you do get an evaluation ordered, YOU will have to undergo an evaluation, also. After all, it will have to be determined if your reasoning for claiming she is Bi-polar (which, by the way, is not necessarily a reason to deny custody) is becuase you truly have concerns or if it is because you are grasping at anything and everything to prevail.

So, aside from an old suicide note (which you cannot possibly provide any context to go with it) what proof do you have that she is bi-polar? Medical reports, witnesses to erratic and dangerous behavior, etc? You are not her psychiatrist and what you believe has no bearing on what is.

Oh...which mother are you fighting in court? Your son's mother or your daughters'? (not that it matters...I'm just curious)

i have witnesses (about 15 of them) to her erratic and dangerous behavior. dangerous not only to her-self, but to our children, and others around her. the witnesses have seen all of these. behaviors of being extreamly happy, to saying that she's going to kick someone's a** and then to depressed, and then happy agin, all within an hour.

take her to court then!

already took her to court, on 11-6-06. its written above!

already took her to court, on 11-6-06. its written above!

Out of curiosity what county????

i have witnesses (about 15 of them) to her erratic and dangerous behavior. dangerous not only to her-self, but to our children, and others around her. the witnesses have seen all of these. behaviors of being extreamly happy, to saying that she's going to kick someone's a** and then to depressed, and then happy agin, all within an hour.

Bring your witnesses to court and ask that the Judge order a full eval of your ex. You'll also need to bring papers showing the signs of bi-polar disorder, you can find those by doing a Google search for bi-polar depression. From your description it does sound like bi-polar is a real possibility and it sounds like she's what's called a "rapid cycler". Meaning cycling from a depressive state to a manic/hypo manic state very rapidly.

westmoreland

westmoreland

That explains a lot.
My sis and BIL were going to court for custody of his son. His son was living with 8 people and 6 dogs and 3 cats in a 2 bedroom house. My SN was sleeping in the same bed with his 20 year old cousin. The judge left custody as is with the parents just making up a schedule according to mom's wishes and they had to go back to court every 3 months to "Babysit" and that is a quote mom to make sure she did right. Can you imagine the expense that caused since she was on welfare and had a free lawyer and my sis and BIL were paying 800 dollars a pop.....

Also I live in westmoreland county and the DR's a bit shady anyway. I get about 3 months a year were I actually get my support. Then somewhere around January every year there is a compliance hearing and the judge always says the same thing. Well he has shown an attempt to pay so we'll just smack him on the wrist and let him do it again this year. I have been playing that game for 4 years now..... WC does their own thing. Does not follow the rules at all they appearantly have their own.

well, i pay my child support on time, every month. i i agree that westmoreland does there on thing, and i wish i could think of a way to change it, to where they would actually look in the best intrest of the child.

well, i pay my child support on time, every month. i i agree that westmoreland does there on thing, and i wish i could think of a way to change it, to where they would actually look in the best intrest of the child.

Yeah I know what you mean. I wasn't implying that you did not pay your support I was just giving you examples of things that have happened to myself involving that county system.

i also know that this is not her first attempt at suicide. This is the 3rd that i know of. how do you get a mental evaluation, when no one will listen to you, and or does not want to see or hear any evidence ?

I will caution you that making medical diagnosis without a medical degree really won't be held in that much regard.

Pay for an expert. Talk to the local bi-polar support group and see who they recommend to help you.

its not a diagnosis, just a guess from what i have seen, and what i have read. This mental evaluation isn't the only thing that has been bothering me, well us (me and my fiancee). We had a visit on this past week, the first to take place at our home, and the oldest, who is 4 says that she knows where her privates are, and that no one is to touch them, and that if anyone is to hurt her, that she is to tell her mother. This just came out of no where at the beginning of our visit in front of our Supervisor, who was also shocked. Also, the oldest says that they stay at their grandmothers (ex's mom's, her home) when the grandmother doesn't have to work, and that they stay with my ex's b/f when the grandmother does work. Wouldn't this be very confusing and unstable for kids 4, and 2 ? They also have said a bunch of stuuf off the wall since we have started the visits in Feb of this year. Our supervisor wants to put my oldest (4) into counseling because she says that my ex is alienating me. Another thing that i'm not to sure of is that their mother is vegetarian, and will not allow them to have any red meat. I'm afraid that they are not getting all of the nutrition that they need. They are always sick. The supervisor agrees. their mother also sent a list of their rules at home with them, and myself, my fiancee and the supervisor think they are very strict rules for their ages. I don't know what to do about any of this. And i have no idea how we are going to co-parent our children when their mother is so controlling, and everything i say or do is wrong. Almost every time that i see them, their hair doesn't look as though it has been washed, and their clothes are about 2-3 sizes too big for them, and they have trouble walking because of this. My ex also has them both is classes, which i am ok with, and encourage it, except that they are in tto many i think. They each are in 7 classes a week, and only have Wed, and Sat off. My oldest also has pre-school during the week, and i get them every Sat. So, really, they only have Wed off every week, is this too much, expecally for thier ages ? And for some reason, they both know my ex's lawyers name, i don't think that they should know that information, but i'm not sure what to think anymore. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you.

its not a diagnosis, just a guess from what i have seen, and what i have read. This mental evaluation isn't the only thing that has been bothering me, well us (me and my fiancee). We had a visit on this past week, the first to take place at our home, and the oldest, who is 4 says that she knows where her privates are, and that no one is to touch them, and that if anyone is to hurt her, that she is to tell her mother. This just came out of no where at the beginning of our visit in front of our Supervisor, who was also shocked. Also, the oldest says that they stay at their grandmothers (ex's mom's, her home) when the grandmother doesn't have to work, and that they stay with my ex's b/f when the grandmother does work. Wouldn't this be very confusing and unstable for kids 4, and 2 ? They also have said a bunch of stuuf off the wall since we have started the visits in Feb of this year. Our supervisor wants to put my oldest (4) into counseling because she says that my ex is alienating me. Another thing that i'm not to sure of is that their mother is vegetarian, and will not allow them to have any red meat. I'm afraid that they are not getting all of the nutrition that they need. They are always sick. The supervisor agrees. their mother also sent a list of their rules at home with them, and myself, my fiancee and the supervisor think they are very strict rules for their ages. I don't know what to do about any of this. And i have no idea how we are going to co-parent our children when their mother is so controlling, and everything i say or do is wrong. Almost every time that i see them, their hair doesn't look as though it has been washed, and their clothes are about 2-3 sizes too big for them, and they have trouble walking because of this. My ex also has them both is classes, which i am ok with, and encourage it, except that they are in tto many i think. They each are in 7 classes a week, and only have Wed, and Sat off. My oldest also has pre-school during the week, and i get them every Sat. So, really, they only have Wed off every week, is this too much, expecally for thier ages ? And for some reason, they both know my ex's lawyers name, i don't think that they should know that information, but i'm not sure what to think anymore. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you.


Why are you upset about that? It sounds like she has been talked to about good touches and bad touches. Little kids LOVE to repeat any new learned information and this was a very important lesson. You should be proud that she feels comfortable enough to discuss this. It's a good thing. Teaching a child this important rule is not necessarily a sign of alienation. Your supervisor needs to take a step back on this topic. (unless of course she came out and said, "Mommy said YOU can't touch me anymore.")

Being vegan is not abusive. Have you asked her if the children are recieving supplements for the extra nutrients? MANY, MANY children are raised in vegan homes.

The classes seem excessive to me, but then, alot of kids are overscheduled by my standards.

Everything else seems to be minor annoyances, but I am not seeing it every day, so I can't judge if it is actually neglectful or not.

its not that this is the only thing that could be a sign of alienation. at the begining of my visits in Feb, my children were calling me "uncle daddy, and donor daddy", and before we were in the court system, my ex would constantly tell them that i was not their father. since the visits have started, they have said multiple bad things that they are repeating, stuff that their mother has said about me in the court papers, stuff that they wouldn't know unless she is telling them this, or saying it around them. i never said that being a vegan is abusive, i just said that it worries me that maybe they aren't getting enought nutrition. all i know is that at one time they did like meat, when i used to see them before all of the court stuff. and i have not talked directly to her since July of 2005, when she put a PFA on me. she did this to "make sure that i would never have anything to do with them" is what she told me. i refuse to talk to her intil the PFA is over in Jan 2007 because she has made a habit of accusing me of everything under the sun. and i have no problem getting along with her, but she has a problem with me, and thats what i worry about. I would like to see my oldest go into counseling, but only if its going to help, i'm affraid that it may hurt her more. I just want to make sure that i am doing the right things to help my children cope.

Okay, now those are valid concerns. There is absolutely no good reason your children would refer to you by names such as you listed. You are correct that your children should NOT know anything that is said, written, or otherwise produced in court.

I understand your concerns about their diet, but it will be very difficult to convince a court that it must be changed to include meat. What you CAN do is take then to a doctor for blood work and evaluation. Children with a vegan diet usually DO need supplements (most notably iron) to meet all of their nutritional needs.

It sounds like counseling would be very beneficial and important to stop/correct the damage that their mother is doing to the children. Parental alienation is a form of emotional and psychological abuse. After all, if the one parent hates the other so much that he or she is willing to hurt the children, then the child will always wonder if Mom or Dad hate her, too. Good luck.

thank you very much for your insight. i really appreciate it. but, how would i prove parental alienation? would it be in the notes from the counsler? and what would the court do if they were to find parental alienation?

How would i even go about getting my oldest daughter into counseling? how would i get it court ordered, because i know that their mother isn't gonna go fro this.

Your attorney needs to file a motion requesting that the court order counseling for the children. The supervisor has been a witness to some of these statements and attitudes. Your atty can subpoena her (him, whatever) to testify.

just had a few more concerns after this past visit, and wanted some opinions on the matters at hand. here are some concerns and other things that I'm not sure of :

1) my oldest daughter went into her room and was staring at the wall, when i asked her what was wrong she said that she wasn't allowed to tell me, then went into the hallway and sat be herself for a little while.

2) when my fiancee changes my youngest daughters diaper, she backs away as if she is scared. she has just recently started doing this.

3) at the end of the visit when i was getting them ready to leave, my oldest says that she doesn't want to go home, that she doesn't like her mom, and her mom's b/f. she gives my trouble every time that it is time for them to go back home.

4) they continue to tell me that they have a brother and a grandma that they do not have, and i am afraid that this may be confusing to them, and or unstable.

5) my oldest has told me in front of our caseworker (for the visits) that she doesn't like family.

is there any advise, insight, or opinions that may help me get a better understanding on what i can do to help them cope, and to try and make the negative talk stop, or at least calm it down a little? is there anyway that i would somehow be able to get there mother to get a mental evaluation and or
counseling ( what a lawyer suggested). any replies are greatly appreciated.

Today I had a visit that was moved to supervised exchanges only. My supervisor had told me at the beginning of the visit that when she called my ex to confirm the visit date and time, that my ex had said that she had reason to believe that I had done something to our kids. She took my oldest to the hospital, their pediatrician and called the Children's bureau. I was told by my supervisor that the case was closed because nothing was found. I'd still like to get these records to show just how she is. Will I be able to? Also, there is a PFA on me from my ex and it expires on Jan 11, 2007, so any contact between my ex and I are to be supervised. My supervisor did not show up for the exchange back to my ex, and said that she wasn't coming to do the exchange and that I was to do it with out her there. What can I do if anything to protect myself from my ex saying that I did anything to abuse her in any way? Also at the beginning of the visit, my supervisor had told me that she thinks that my ex is out to get me (happy some people see it) and this has been stated by all 5 of my past supervisors, and they all have asked me if she was Bi-polar. I also think that she is bi-polar but I can not seem to get any kind of mental evaluation on her. Any ideas, opinions, and or advice is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the rambling. Thank you for your time.

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