Hi, I'm new here. I'm a full time firefighter in Mass and recently we are being forced to stay and train after our 24 hour shift. We work 42 hours a week. they are offering OT but many of us have child care issues and can't stay. They are threatning us with punishment if we don't stay. Can they force us to do this. Are there any laws that say they can't force you unless there is an emergency????? Thanks for any info.

oops, hit to may keys, im just In Mass.

There are no laws prohibiting employers from requiring mandatory overtime, emergency or not. Working for a municipal government, I have found that scheduling firefighting personnel for training is a difficult (at best) task. With all the different rotation schedules and having to cover 24X7, some personnel are going to be inconvenienced some of the time. It's the nature of the job.

Patty is correct about the law part; however, I'm guessing you are union. My collective bargaining agreement specifically states that I can only be held over the end of my shift for ninety minutes, emergency or not, so talk to your steward.
Not to jump down you throat Patty, but the days of "That is just the nature of the job." are rapidly ending, staggered shifts, relief crews etc. are being utilized alot these days. That is exactly the attitude that gets medics, cops, and firefighters killed, not to mention the citizenry. Common sense dictates that there are only 24 hours in a day. If I come off of a busy 12 and they force me to stay for some mickey mouse BS then it can be as little as 6 hours before I have to be back in uniform. Would it make you or anyone else feel better to know that I got paid overtime after I ran over your grandmother or kid?

It IS the nature of the job, like it or not.

Stridor, if your house were on fire, and the firefighter's shift came to an end and they all went home instead of continuing to fight the fire, would it make you feel better to know that they weren't forced to work overtime?

Stridor, if your house were on fire, and the firefighter's shift came to an end and they all went home instead of continuing to fight the fire, would it make you feel better to know that they weren't forced to work overtime?I feel quite certain that I mentioned a 90 minute mandatory, but let me tell you CBG, thats why we got what us public servants like to call "Coverage" our shifts don't go 8-4, 4-12, 12-8 our shifts go like this 0600-1800 which is stacked with a 0700-1900 and an 0800-2000 shift that means that by 0800 there are twenty firefighters in Engine ten's house counting the officers who come in at 0800. It's also the same for medics, by 0800 there are six medics in engine ten's house. Now, when the 0600 shift ends at 1800 they can be mandated until 1930, by that time the 1800 crew and the 1900 crew can be mobilized to cover my house burning down. Now, lets say just for $hits and giggles that a collision between truck load of razor blades and a van load of hemophiliacs happened at the gas station around the corner from medic thirteen's house on Roosevelt Blvd and Solly avenue and It took all three fire crews and all three medic crews to handle it. Then there is another house approximately three minutes away. I will give you the dispatch sequence.
"911 what is your emergency."
"There is an accident at cottman and Roosevelt blvd."
"Ok crews are on the way."
138 hz tone 156 duo tone, bells drop, radio opens up
"Medic 13, rescue 6, engine 10, ladder 12. MVA with fire at xyz st. Heavy fire showing ."
Medic thirteen rolls with rescue six, ladder 12, and engine ten. When engine ten gets there they surround and drown, while the firefighters run lines, roll out the foam, and set up hazmat ops, medic 13-1 arrives and establishes rehab for fire crews, and medic 13-2 arrives to treat any victims and calls for 13-3 and any additional medic units as needed, the remaining area houses are put on standby to respond in our absence. The next house is medic 20 at cottman and leonard. According to mapquest, http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&rmm=1&un=m&cl=EN&qq=1ADqpk24ofDgSLSCZKmHR%252bdF6Y5c6e8oU5BgTq%252f OCBOCqThehur53nZSq6VCniqERuSLiiAg1Iur5H93ROAyE%252 fl6BhVigAyXLBZcqItoarpnBruw39sVxE%252f6cDFAf4UkTR8 2J9kqDBntGqFD2fZIcdciDqb117zn4bk%252briFeuD9IYNG11 KbG3jlFSQhdhaJb&ct=NA&r=f&rsres=1&1y=US&1ffi=&1l=&1g=&1pl=&1v=&1n=&1pn=&1a=COTTMAN+AVE+%26+LEONARD+ST&1c=PHILADELPHIA&1s=PA&1z=19149&panelbtn=1&2y=US&2ffi=&2l=&2g=&2pl=&2v=&2n=&2pn=&2a=roosevelt+and+solly&2c=philadelphia&2s=pa&2z= it's an additional 1.61 miles. It's really simple. But then admins got to go and screw things up by putting crews out of service for the bs meetings. That is actually why your house might be more likely to burn down, or your heart attack be fatal, than because I went home. So in the future before you comment on something that I have forgotten more about than you will likely ever know, you might do a little homework.

It IS the nature of the job, like it or not.

No, it isn't, that is what you as an outsider think. See my post to cbg, there are ways to prevent it and my department does pretty well at it. The last time I was even mandated to stay ninety minutes, much less any more than that was nearly a year ago.

I may not know as much about firefighting as you do, but I do know employment law, and I do know that mandatory overtime is legal in most situations.

If you don't like the law, lobby your elected representatives to have it changed. Don't come onto my board and start yelling at us because you don't like the way we answer questions.

I may not know as much about firefighting as you do, but I do know employment law, and I do know that mandatory overtime is legal in most situations.

If you don't like the law, lobby your elected representatives to have it changed. Don't come onto my board and start yelling at us because you don't like the way we answer questions.
yep, you sure do know employment law, but you seem to contradict yourself a bit on this board. Here you tell a guy that he may have a collective bargaining agreement that is used in place of the law, http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=159900 Now, see if you had taken the time to read my post, the whole post, and only the black parts, rather than try to tell me how firefighting works, you would have seen that that is exactly what I said here.

Patty is correct about the law part; however, I'm guessing you are union. My collective bargaining agreement specifically states that I can only be held over the end of my shift for ninety minutes, emergency or not, so talk to your steward.
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. OP talk to your union steward and CBG you might as well lock this one.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. The thread you linked was posted in the Union forum. This was not. You are guessing that the poster is union. IF he is, I agree that his CBA should cover this. But in the absence of any indication that he is a union member, I'm not going to make any assumptions but answer only based on the law. Under the law, mandatory overtime is legal. If he has a union contract that says otherwise, fine. I don't have a problem with that. Nor did I ever say anything different.

If you had stopped with this:

My collective bargaining agreement specifically states that I can only be held over the end of my shift for ninety minutes, emergency or not, so talk to your steward

I wouldn't have said a word. It was when you took it upon yourself to lecture Patty, and later me, on how things ought to work, that I took issue with it. I did not try to tell you how firefighting worked; I asked you a question in the same nature as the one you asked us.

Fair enough, I guess I did kind of go off on a tangent after I posted about my union agreement. Although, I do think you may have confused me with the OP, I didn't ask the original question, Steelfire did.

No, trust me, I know that you didn't ask the original question. But let's just let this rest now, okay?

I have one more thing to say to defend myself. I PAY over 1,300 firefighters and have worked closely with a number of chiefs, so I am not ignorant of the job environment.

OK, now we're done. :)

I have one more thing to say to defend myself. I PAY over 1,300 firefighters and have worked closely with a number of chiefs, so I am not ignorant of the job environment.

OK, now we're done. :)

Next time I'm sick I'll go see my doctors accountant.