Okay...long story short...hubby's ex has custody of their 2 daughters. About 3 years ago, youngest needed braces that weren't covered on our health insurance. In the decree, it's stated that extraordinary medical expenses are to be split proportionately between hubby and the ex. My husband agreed to pay his 1/2 for the braces, however, the ex told him that in addition to the $2300 for his 1/2 of the braces, he also had to pay $300 which was 1/2 of the deposit for the braces. He told her that he would pay the $300 in with the $2300 when it was due.
Next thing we know, she presents him with an order that was seemingly drawn up by her attorney stating that the $300 is due up front, etc. Assuming that this was something that needed to go ahead and be taken care of, hubby signed it.
However, yesterday, after reviewing the decrees and forms for other reasons, that particular order caught my eye. It just looked different than the others. The type set was off, the atty's phone number was a cell #, there were many misspellings, etc. So, we went to the clerks office to get a copy of the order and apparently, there was never one filed through the courts.
He has already paid her the $, so I guess that's not the issue. It just chaps my a$$ that she had the gall to make a very legal looking court order and con him into signing it.
Are there any ramifications to her doing this? Is it binding in any way? I want her to get in trouble in some way, but I question if she's really done anything wrong. Apparently she didn't file it with the courts.
Any help is appreciated. This is an ongoing issue with us it seems.

Hmm... aren't deposits refundable?...Hmm...It is legal to have a contract that is outside of court... if the document did not have a court stamp, docket number, etc ...it may just be a written contract not fraud. IF your hubby had not agreed to pay the amount she might have taken you to court.
However if she forged the lawyers letterhead or the courts letter head then there could be problems. Have you called the lawyers office and asked him if he drew up the paperwork?
Also keep in mind that written contracts are binding. So tell your hubby not to sign things without reviewing them with a lawyer.

She didn't actually falsify the atty's letterhead, it was the letterhead of:Commonwealth of Kentucky
Circuit Court
Family Court Division
File Number:******

It was basically a duplicate of all of the "official" court orders.
She clearly did not intend for it to be an agreement that was drawn up by the two of them, we actually have at least 3 that have been made/signed/agreed to by them both that were written.

I did consider calling the atty, but the glitch in that is he is now working for the Child Support Enforcement Office in our county. Also I question if he could/would give us the information.

I appreciate all of the great advice on here. Not being able to afford an atty makes this info very helpful.

You took the paper to the courts and they saw it?? IF they did not have a problem with the document there is little that can be done.
It was probably something that she was going to file but since your hubby agreed, there was no need to pay the filing fee.
It probably is binding because if your hubby does not do as the paper that he signed says, then she could file it in court and have the judge order it. And your hub may have to pay the filing fees/ court costs.
PS did he pay her the $2,300 plus $300 or $300 deposite and then the remainder of $2000?
I'm just wondering if she somehow tricked him in to paying an extra $300 by calling it a "deposit" or if she just wanted him to pay the $300 quickly upfront?

We didn't take the paper to the courts. We just looked through the file for a copy that had been filed with the courts and it wasn't there. Apparently she didn't file it.
The circumstance was she had already signed her part of the "order" and then mailed it to us so that he could sign it and mail it back to her. However, it was never filed through the courts.
My understanding of the whole braces thing is this: the $600 deposit had to be paid up front (his share being $300) and the remaining $4600 had to either be paid in full or financed through the orthodontist's office (who I believe actually uses a finance company). He paid her the $300 as soon as he received and signed the "order" she made. Because she didn't have her share of the $4600, she had to finance the entire amount over a 3 year period. She makes the monthly payment, and he sends her 1/2 of the monthly payment. He agreed to pay his $2300 over a 3 year period and have it taken directly out of his pay. His employer deducts it and then sends a check to the ex. From the statements that we've gotten from the orthodontist's office, I believe that the ENTIRE amount was $4600 and the way it's written, it says nothing about a deposit.
In my opinion. she just got an extra $300 from him.

Well then, I guess your hubby paid $300.00 to learn never sign anything with out double checking it first... I've had a few life lessons myself that have cost me. :cool:

We didn't take the paper to the courts. We just looked through the file for a copy that had been filed with the courts and it wasn't there. Apparently she didn't file it.
The circumstance was she had already signed her part of the "order" and then mailed it to us so that he could sign it and mail it back to her. However, it was never filed through the courts.
My understanding of the whole braces thing is this: the $600 deposit had to be paid up front (his share being $300) and the remaining $4600 had to either be paid in full or financed through the orthodontist's office (who I believe actually uses a finance company). He paid her the $300 as soon as he received and signed the "order" she made. Because she didn't have her share of the $4600, she had to finance the entire amount over a 3 year period. She makes the monthly payment, and he sends her 1/2 of the monthly payment. He agreed to pay his $2300 over a 3 year period and have it taken directly out of his pay. His employer deducts it and then sends a check to the ex. From the statements that we've gotten from the orthodontist's office, I believe that the ENTIRE amount was $4600 and the way it's written, it says nothing about a deposit.
In my opinion. she just got an extra $300 from him.
Was this "order" or agreement SIGNED BY A JUDGE?
If not and it's part of an existing court case, it may not be enforceable. Even agreements have to be signed by a Judge. So definately check into that possibilty.

It was not signed by a judge. It's not even so much that she took us for $300 as much as it is that she was just so damn devious about it. I think now, for me anyway, I just want to let her know that we know it's fake and make her think that she's going to get in trouble in some way.
I know that sounds petty and juvenile, but I'm so sick of this woman always wanting more. My husband truly is one of those ideal dads who pay the CS, medical bills, sends money for extras and all that. It just ticks me off that we live on our meager salaries and she has anything she wants, yet she still wants more.
I suppose it's that ex wife thing in that she just wants to see him suffer in some way.
I appreciate you guys letting me vent. :mad:

It was not signed by a judge. It's not even so much that she took us for $300 as much as it is that she was just so damn devious about it. I think now, for me anyway, I just want to let her know that we know it's fake and make her think that she's going to get in trouble in some way.
I know that sounds petty and juvenile, but I'm so sick of this woman always wanting more. My husband truly is one of those ideal dads who pay the CS, medical bills, sends money for extras and all that. It just ticks me off that we live on our meager salaries and she has anything she wants, yet she still wants more.
I suppose it's that ex wife thing in that she just wants to see him suffer in some way.
I appreciate you guys letting me vent. :mad:
Your husband only has to follow the actual existing court orders. Anything that was NOT signed by a Judge is NOT a part of the existing order.

The best way to let her know that he knows what she did is for him to do ONLY what the court order says, nothing more. She of course will complain that he's not obeying thier "agreement" that's when he can simply tell her that he knows the agreement is fake and unenforceable, and therefore he will NOT go by her FRAUDULENT agreement. He can always add that most frauds are considered to be a felony that she can go to prison for. That might shut her up for awhile at least.

Actually, because of my husband's situation I personally don't think your feelings are petty at all. I won't go into great detail because it would take 2 pages to explain it all, but my husband's ex committed many frauds in thier CS case, in her bankruptcy case, and even committed public housing fraud. These frauds cost us taxpayers alot of money, and the ones she committed in the CS case almost cost my husband his life. (thru fraud and biased Judges she managed to get so much in CS and arrears that he couldn't afford his meds, had a heart attack and almost died). Anyway, we (my hubby and I) felt so strongly that his ex (who's a police officer) should also be made to answer for her wrongs, that we turned all of the evidence over to the authorities. It's maddening that we can't find out if anything was ever done or not- all the agencies will tell us is that we need to subpoena the info, but all we know right now is that she is still a police officer. The one good thing that came out of it though was that after 5 years of her threats, and harrassments, she finally shut up and hasn't bothered us at all since Aug 2004 when my husband had his heart attack.
So, even if nothing is done about your husband's ex's frauds, hopefully she'll be smart enough to never try it again.
Xena

Xena, I understand your situation entirely. My husband has diabetes and has also had to go off his medication at times. We do have health insurance, but unfortunately, sometimes that $25 co-pay for 2-3 medications each is hard to come by. Thankfully, we have been lucky enough that he hasn't experienced anything that wasn't fixable. (For the time being anyway)

I guess it's just frustrating to me that his ex has a good paying job, her husband has a great job, they go on at least 3 vacations a year, she has the Coach, Dooney and Bourke, and Louis V. bags, their home is great, etc. And she does give their girls a great quality of life in that they get to go on the vacations and they have the expensive clothes, shoes and purses. Yet when his girls visit us, we have to budget how many times we can go out to eat or if we are out and they see something we want, we have to contemplate whether or not we can afford it. His ex thinks it's amusing to ask my husband why he didn't take the girls and do things during the summer like the water parks and amusement parks, etc., just so she can hear him say that we couldn't afford it.
I wish that one day we can be in your situation and just have her leave us alone. She never discusses the lively hood of the kids with him anyway. She's the decision maker-no questions asked. He has no say at all. So, ideally, he would like for her to receive the CS, let him know if there's an "extraordinary" medical expense that he needs to pay and be done with it. But there always seems to be something that she has to stir up.
My husband tells me that I need to just stay out of it and she'll eventually give up. But I get so angry. How did you handle it? Did you speak to the ex or did your hubby take care of it? I just hate feeling like we're at her mercy.

I wish that one day we can be in your situation and just have her leave us alone.
So, ideally, he would like for her to receive the CS, let him know if there's an "extraordinary" medical expense that he needs to pay and be done with it. But there always seems to be something that she has to stir up.

My husband tells me that I need to just stay out of it and she'll eventually give up. But I get so angry. How did you handle it? Did you speak to the ex or did your hubby take care of it? I just hate feeling like we're at her mercy.
Someday she will leave you alone, but unfortunatley that may only come once the kids are all grown. In the mean time it will help you alot if you and hubby keep reminding yourselves that at least he's allowed to be a part of his kids' lives, and that it could be alot worse.

I understand fully the frustration that comes from the other parent refusing to just do things the easy, correct way. When my husband filed for a modification because his oldest was 20 and married, it should have been a very simple process, but his ex literally turned it into a 3 ring circus with threats, letters to the Judge, the kids even wrote letters, she refused to disclose income and she outright refused to obey subpoenas. The crazy thing is that if she had just done what she supposed to do, there wouldn't have been any reason for my husband to make legal discovery thru public records and we would never have found her other frauds.

Your husband is right, even though it's very hard, you do need to stay out of anything that doesn't directly pertain to you. My husband handled all of the contact between him and ex, unless it was something that pertained directly to me. For instance, I had no contact whatsoever with his ex from the the time of his filing for the modification until the day that she wrote him a letter stating that she KNEW that he had put all his assets into MY name, just to keep thier kids from getting them. Basically, she was falsely accusing me, so I sent her a very short letter telling her that the home we lived in, the car we drove, the furniture we had, etc. were all mine long before I even met her ex. I then told her that I have proof of my ownership and that if she continued with her false accusations and slander that I wouldn't hesitate to file a lawsuit against her. Every time she brought me into it, I stood up to her in letters, I was always very careful though to not write anything threatening or untrue. However, the accusations she made against my husband, I let him handle those.

Unfortunately the only reason that she leaves us alone now is because she's won, she's getting regular arrears payments on an illegally issued order. It's very maddening, but although my husband has all kinds of legal standing and proof to return to court to get the illegal order changed, the fact is that he cannot do so without an attorney. On the day he had the heart attack we made a promise to each other that from that day forward we would do what works in OUR best interests, and the hell with his ex, and the biased Judges. For the past year it has been in our best interest to make the illegally ordered payments and just try to go on with our lives. Right now we can afford to make the payments without doing without anything we NEED, but if that ever changes, we have no qualms about him not making the payments and letting the cards fall where they may.

My husband's kids are all grown and I realize that your's aren't but I can tell you that eventually it will get better.
Xena :)