Saving marriage [Archive] - Labor Law Talk

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 10:03 AM

Hello All

I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been
married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of
the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try
to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,
counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,
and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka
in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know
who..

She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was
inpatient before that.

We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce
court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking,
the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All
over her arms and legs are scars.

And I think she still does it.

She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our
8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room.

I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same).
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is
spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious.

Any one have any ideas..

THANKS

Mike

Tsam Nami

04-17-2004, 10:38 AM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the
drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with
our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the
same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas..

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further.
I hope that you and she can find some way
to cope with this and recover from it.

You and she are already getting help
where I would suggest that you look for it.

What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent?
(What triggered the divorce?
Why did you choose to post now?)
How well are you coping with this?
--
Tsam

Tsam Nami

04-17-2004, 10:38 AM

nobody

04-17-2004, 11:57 AM

nobody

04-17-2004, 11:57 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 11:58 AM

She filed for divorce on Sept 28th

I thought that some way I could talk her out of this.

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

I really didn't know that this group was around.

I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know
if she will continue to do so.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I
was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public
assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and
pay the bills. SO last night she came home.

This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of
her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the
child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer
and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the
correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist
states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think
so. She was drinking way before me.

I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't
know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am
sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company.
Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I
thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job
was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be
productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was
fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW
I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

Thanks

Mike
"Tsam Nami" <tsam-nami@tidal.wav> wrote in message
news:PQegc.14238$A_4.4332@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she
was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first
divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds.
All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas.. Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further. I hope that you and she can find some way to cope with this and recover from it. You and she are already getting help where I would suggest that you look for it. What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent? (What triggered the divorce? Why did you choose to post now?) How well are you coping with this? -- Tsam

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 11:58 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 01:05 PM

YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""

She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..

SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

I have NO job and I am stuck..

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

Thanks

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s29a$kli$04$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. <snip> Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk". Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of her, but she has not embraced recovery. Continue to go to Al-anon. I take the marriage vows serious. That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t. Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 01:05 PM

nobody

04-17-2004, 01:58 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not
dependent on
external circumstances, but sorely from the individual.

When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great
deal of will.
I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of
course, nobody deals
better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon.

But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision, and
it appears
that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this mind
altering experience.
(Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they lived.)

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.
I have NO job and I am stuck..

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing.
Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to
change the things
you can?

nobody

04-17-2004, 01:58 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 02:05 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I
am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.
I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.
Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.
The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodkain her mouth.

She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is
she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it
with little else, and there's little solution.
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be
attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this
is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own
benefit.
I take the marriage vows serious.

And you want her to do likewise?

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her
biggest problem.

Frank

04-17-2004, 02:05 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 02:28 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this
what she tells you the therapist said?

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by
the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an
unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps
not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial.

She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly
believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to
imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of
complete agreement.

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost
anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness.

However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her
drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a
different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at
recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or
go.
WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an
abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution
to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a
solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be
whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety
for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

Frank

04-17-2004, 02:28 PM

Doug Anderson

04-17-2004, 02:38 PM

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent
therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the
therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this
way.

Doug Anderson

04-17-2004, 02:38 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 02:56 PM

I am glad you found recovery.

Well I guess she didn't hit rock bottom. I was always there with a big
pillow.

Thanks.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s9bh$md0$02$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not dependent on external circumstances, but sorely from the individual. When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great deal of will. I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of course, nobody deals better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon. But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision,
and it appears that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this
mind altering experience. (Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they
lived.) I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful.. Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever. I have NO job and I am stuck.. If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in
health.. Till death

This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing. Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can?

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 02:56 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:00 PM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with the
child in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I was
not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial. She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of complete agreement.

IT was verbal Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness. However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or go.WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me. Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:00 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:07 PM

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no... Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the..
The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab
thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep
when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So
insacure about MOM going away.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this
from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws
the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away..
They are alive because I did..
Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this way.

I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was
selling me.. ITS me..

NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:07 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 03:08 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you
"caused" it.
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the
alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty
relating to other people.

A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not
doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in
blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always
helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk
into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then
gives become a question "what's your problem?"

That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a
point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the
problem.
If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm
saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her
problems.

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where
al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she
stays or not.

Frank

04-17-2004, 03:08 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:11 PM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:16c0322391e65cec5c4803cd3430f08c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

Well there has to be a way.. I can't just give up on the family and loose my
daugher.. I don't want to be a P/T father.. Every weekend between Girl
Scouts and other social things she does.. I don't deserve that..The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodkain her mouth. She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

YES she could.. And maybe she is Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it with little else, and there's little solution.And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own benefit.

She has been attending for 8 years.. And YES you are rightI take the marriage vows serious. And you want her to do likewise?

YES.. it would be nice If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.

WHAT is??

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 03:11 PM

Joy

04-17-2004, 04:09 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I
think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses
insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You
might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,
they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been
offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance.
Do you have any documentation?
I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't
know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO
I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer

What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the sub
stand for?

Joy

04-17-2004, 04:09 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 04:13 PM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:27f0f089bba368eb124ab4fb0c95460c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: >She only sees a therapist. And this therapist >states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I
wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go.. Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you "caused" it. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty relating to other people. A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then gives become a question "what's your problem?" That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the problem. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her problems.

NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.

BUT maybe I truly don't understand..

Explain See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she stays or not.

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 04:13 PM

Tony Miller

04-17-2004, 04:20 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk
<mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do
that to you.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

Tony Miller

04-17-2004, 04:20 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 04:56 PM

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a
minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was
dropped.

I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one

SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job..

I have had NO insurance since Nov 1.

I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills.
SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for
public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay
and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for?

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 04:56 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:00 PM

"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc83i8o.at8.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do that to you. -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.

SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that
it will be better SHE will be happier without me.

That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A
real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem.. I
get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Something I have a hard time understanding.. After 16 years and a child..
Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on
her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:00 PM

Joy

04-17-2004, 05:11 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks
that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem..
I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce.
If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any
way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn
things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but
it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make
things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event
of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what does
the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's
working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her).
Something I have a hard time understanding..

Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of
people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However,
sometimes things just *don't* make sense.

After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..>

How is your daughter doing?

Joy

Joy

04-17-2004, 05:11 PM

Jennifer

04-17-2004, 05:21 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is??

Saving her life is her priority.

She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married
for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the
whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of
sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her
sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated
version of your wife?

In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself.
And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human.

I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up
getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she
married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who
she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a
lot going on.

Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you
(and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you,
though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If
her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her
while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary
changes, etc.?

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her
arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out
your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't
right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants
you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she
"qualifies"?

I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to
point out the other side.

Jennifer

04-17-2004, 05:21 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:45 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but
I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the
insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I
was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the
bills. SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:45 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:54 PM

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife?

NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

I see..

I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this
divorce came along.

I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't.
Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 05:54 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 06:04 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:z4lgc.34803$_g4.3517757@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... > On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. > > I really didn't know that this group was around. > > I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live,
but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final.
You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,

I did.. I was dropped they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her
job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT
pricey > I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I
don't know > if she will continue to do so. > > As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I > was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public > assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to
stay and > pay the bills. SO last night she came home. > > This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does
the sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 06:04 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 06:11 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Mdlgc.34936$_g4.3546293@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:> If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her> biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife? NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.?

She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things really
didn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

She was still abusive, and tough to be with. We had our good days and very
bad days. The mood swings are all over the chart.

And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is having
a tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.

I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look for
understanding. Like posting to this group.

Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to love
one's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never did
anything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I am
NOT perfect. BUT I tried

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. I see.. I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this divorce came along. I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't. Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

Mike Kulyk

04-17-2004, 06:11 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 06:57 PM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk.
Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought
with money.
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would
do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you
work the program, starting with Step 1.

Frank

04-17-2004, 06:57 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 07:20 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:13:21 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.BUT maybe I truly don't understand..Explain

An alcoholic's life becomes emotionally "unmanageable" without the
booze. Booze helps the alcoholic to "feel" normal. The insanity
comes in believing that alcohol can do this. An alcoholic drinks to
try and preserve sanity, even though to other people this act seems
insane.

If your spouse is honestly not drinking, that's a good thing despite
the raging emotions. She needs to focus on recovery, and perhaps also
needs to look at diet, etc. Alcohol contains a lot of sugars that the
body gets accustomed to getting, so a drop in blood/sugar levels can
be part of the problem, even after years of not drinking and even if
the alcoholic is not diabetic.

There's more to it, such as a "need" to feel treated special in order
to feel average. But you're really not "her" problem. She just might
need a divorce and a few more drunken sessions in order to realise
this for herself.

Frank

04-17-2004, 07:20 PM

Frank

04-17-2004, 07:42 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:11:47 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things reallydidn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

Sounds about right. Isolation is very common among alcoholics. It
also happens to be a bad thing for a sober alcoholic to do too much.
But that can't be your problem.
And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is havinga tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look forunderstanding. Like posting to this group.Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to loveone's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never didanything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I amNOT perfect. BUT I tried

"Al-anons" are perhaps the most loving and loyal partners on the
planet. Every one of them deserves a gold medal. For everyone's
ultimate health they just need to learn how to take more care of
themselves and "let go" of other stuff they're trying to control. Not
easy, considering how childishly irresponsible the average drunk can
be, but necessary.

Frank

04-17-2004, 07:42 PM

nobody

04-18-2004, 12:08 AM

> "nobody" wrote:
If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in health.. Till death

The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third person
isn´t sure if
it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good
forum)
This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..

Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an
opportunist, rather
than a valuist.
They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them.
But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than
you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

nobody

04-18-2004, 12:08 AM

nobody

04-18-2004, 12:25 AM

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com...
<snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through "hell",
(ie. self-harm,
abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not*
indicate
that someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite.

My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery. I
had
enough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought never
crossed my head.
My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance could
touch.

nobody

04-18-2004, 12:25 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:05 AM

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5td3s$utv$00$1@news.t-online.com... "nobody" wrote: If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and
in health.. Till death The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third
person isn´t sure if it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

VALUES Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good forum)

THANKS This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me.. Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an opportunist, rather than a valuist. They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them. But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:05 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:06 AM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:e617c0a80c8a478569aa79adaf329a27@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk. Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought with money.And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you work the program, starting with Step 1.

I am on step 4

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:06 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:26 AM

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Fykgc.57650$oj6.47667@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional..
A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the
problem.. I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to.. Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce. If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what
does the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her). Something I have a hard time understanding.. Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However, sometimes things just *don't* make sense. After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work
on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..> How is your daughter doing?

Poorly.. She is So scared that MOM will go away. Again. So she sticks to her
like glue.. She will not sleep alone. So my wife and daughter sleep in one
tiny twin bed, with the TV on all night. So won't take her to counstling.
The daugther needs some "step 1 work to" Joy

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:26 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:33 AM

I wish a person like you could talk some sense into her.

Seems like you have it together.

BUT would she listen??

Don't know.

I have little to NO faith in the AA people she hangs with.

They seem to be people that add to the problem(S). Not help.

Her sponsor is a women with 2 failed marriages.. ONE husband killed himself,
the other just walked away from her. And this women has a daughter that is
raging drug and alcohol abuser.

There was a women that seem to have together family, great job, and sober.
SHE won't talk to that lady.. SHE would be to tough on me MY wife stated. So
it seems like the easy way for her.

She was told from the rehab hospital to seek a DR for the cutting, and what
ever. And that never happened.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5te47$6sq$05$1@news.t-online.com... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... <snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through
"hell", (ie. self-harm, abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not* indicate that someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite. My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery.
I had enough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought never crossed my head. My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance could touch.

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:33 AM

Jennifer

04-18-2004, 11:23 AM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:25:48 +0200, "nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in messagenews:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news. teranews.com...<snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through "hell",(ie. self-harm,abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not*indicatethat someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite.

I didn't mean to imply that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
I meant that early recovery is difficult. I remember saying, "I'm
suffering" often. "Going through hell" was how he described their
household since she became sober. I remember the "hell" of early
recovery, for me and others in the rooms, and that's what I was
referring to. That she has anxiety symptoms, like skin-picking
doesn't *mean* she is recovering--I hope I didn't imply that
either--but anxiety and depression are common in the first year or
two. She is in a situation where, for the first time in over 20
years, she is sober. It's confusing and there is so much stimuli that
had previously been "medicated" or buried or ignored through drinking.
Now, she is feeling her feelings that alcohol covered. She lost over
20 years of maturation, in some ways.

I don't know that she is behaving like a "self-serving *****" but I do
know that she needs to be very careful with her fragile self. She
needs to focus on herself, though "self-serving" sounds far more
negative. If her househould--one she married into while drunk--is a
place that supports her previous behavior she may be extremely
uncomfortable there, evidenced by her divorce request.

What I read was a couple that got married after the woman had been
drunk over a decade. I ask myself, how this marriage supported her
drunken behavior and why she chose this man. She chose him while
drunk, and was drunk for another 13 years post-marriage. Was her
drunkenness okay with him; did he want her to stop; why did he marry
her, etc.?

Since I posted, the original poster said that she had always behaved
this way and that perhaps she is still drinking. He doesn't trust her
sponsor or her new friends. So, now I feel that without more
objective information -- or her version of the story -- there is no
way, really, of knowing what happened or is happening.

What precipitated her going into recovery? Does she trust her sponsor
and is her sponsor actually good for her recovery; are her AA friends
*really* bad for her or are they excellent for her recovery but bad in
her husband's eyes, who has said that her recovery has been hell on
the marriage?
My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery. Ihadenough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought nevercrossed my head.My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance couldtouch.

Being in the rooms, though, you did see people struggle with their
marriages in early recovery, didn't you? And, often it's talked about
-- and very common -- to develop other behaviors when putting down one
- alcohol, in this case. Substitution is commonly talked about.
Avoid all substances of abuse when you put one down. Then, many,
unable to deal efficiently because they don't have the tools, turn to
different destructive behavior. I don't find it unusual that she
would be anxious and pick at her skin after becoming sober, struggling
with marriage and a daughter, money, lawyers, etc. How long does it
take to develop healthy coping mechanisms? Depends on the person, how
long drunk (in this case long time), lots of things. I'm not
supporting her self-destructive behavior, nor saying it's a "sign" she
is recovering. It *is* a disorder of anxiety - self-mutilation. I
don't know whether or not she was anxious before she stoped drinking,
but she is now. I don't think we really can know what she is going
through from his perception of it. This was a marriage founded when
the woman was drunk, and remained so for 13 years, and I find the
mental health or perceptions of the husband suspect for this reason.

I don't think anyone here can discuss her "program" by hearing only
from her husband.

Jennifer

04-18-2004, 11:23 AM

shinypenny

04-18-2004, 12:08 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

Is it a coincidence that she filed for divorce the same day you lost
your job? Or is that a part of why she filed for divorce?
I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Are you in the middle of a custody dispute?
I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company. Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

In addition to the Sept 28 lay off and the Feb 1 firing, do you have a
history of unemployment instability?

What does your wife do? How long has she been stably employed? I'm
guessing that she must be doing okay if, despite the problems you
report (alcoholism, mental instability, anxiety, cutting herself,
marriage issues) she manages to keep a job?

jen

shinypenny

04-18-2004, 12:08 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 12:43 PM

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0404181208.6547a318@posting.google.c om... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:<M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. Is it a coincidence that she filed for divorce the same day you lost your job? Or is that a part of why she filed for divorce?

It could be.. BUT since sept 11 or before when the DOT com crash IT work has
been real flaky.

Holding down a job when there is a active drinking in the house has been a
JOB in itself

She was a binge drinker and it started Thurs night and went to Monday..
Weekends were HELL

This is the reason I said I need Help and started Al-alon.. MY life was
unmanagleable due to Alochol I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't
know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills.
SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for
public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay
and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs
of her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with
the child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER
lawyer and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see
the correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this
therapist states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't
think so. She was drinking way before me. Are you in the middle of a custody dispute?

NOT YET.. This divorce thing just got started We only had the first court
visit Last week..

We had to tell the judge what we wanted and how I was contesting this
divorce I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really
don't know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL
I am sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small
company. Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the
job was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to
be productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes..
WHEW I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me.. In addition to the Sept 28 lay off and the Feb 1 firing, do you have a history of unemployment instability?

YES... WHY?? What does your wife do? How long has she been stably employed? I'm guessing that she must be doing okay if, despite the problems you report (alcoholism, mental instability, anxiety, cutting herself, marriage issues) she manages to keep a job?

YES 12 years.. She is a supervisor in a medical testing lab.. So she was
able to go out in the day time and drink..

As I said she was a weekend binge drinker.. And it got all out of control.
SHE did drink on the job. SO I have been told. BUT the ammount of on the job
drinking is not really known to me jen

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 12:43 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:03 PM

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:fb85639f3998af57f53598ac8b302752@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:25:48 +0200, "nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in messagenews:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news. teranews.com...<snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs?

YES I respect HER needs and the process. I was there all the way in rehab..
CALLEd her every night to say I love you.. GOOD work. Proud of you..
If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober

SHE has been real hard to deal with. ANGRY.. Abusive.. And I allowed as much
as I could past me by.. I was told like water off a ducks back.

or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.?

I don't understand.. IF she wathdraws.. WELL what can I do.. Leave me alone
is leave me alone.. I can't make her sleep in OUR bed if she doesn't want
to. I allowed all the changes she needed and wanted.. Meetings.retreats, FUN
stuff she wanted to do with the AA women. FUN stuff alone when she wanted to
do that. AND family stuff to. I tried to bend over backwards to do the RIGHT
thing. I didn't always know what that was. BUT I tired Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through
"hell",(ie. self-harm,abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not*indicatethat someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite. I didn't mean to imply that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I meant that early recovery is difficult. I remember saying, "I'm suffering" often. "Going through hell" was how he described their household since she became sober. I remember the "hell" of early recovery, for me and others in the rooms, and that's what I was referring to. That she has anxiety symptoms, like skin-picking doesn't *mean* she is recovering--I hope I didn't imply that either--but anxiety and depression are common in the first year or two. She is in a situation where, for the first time in over 20 years, she is sober. It's confusing and there is so much stimuli that had previously been "medicated" or buried or ignored through drinking. Now, she is feeling her feelings that alcohol covered. She lost over 20 years of maturation, in some ways.

She is on Anti-depression/anxiety meds.. BUT given to her by a GP.. And not
monitored well. I don't know that she is behaving like a "self-serving *****" but I do know that she needs to be very careful with her fragile self. She needs to focus on herself, though "self-serving" sounds far more negative. If her househould--one she married into while drunk--is a place that supports her previous behavior she may be extremely uncomfortable there, evidenced by her divorce request.

I see What I read was a couple that got married after the woman had been drunk over a decade. I ask myself, how this marriage supported her drunken behavior and why she chose this man. She chose him while drunk, and was drunk for another 13 years post-marriage. Was her drunkenness okay with him; did he want her to stop; why did he marry her, etc.?

I married her because when she is sober.. She was a VERY nice lovable
person. Caring and all the ++++ traits you want in a person. BUT there was
this dark side about drinking. IT was all closet drinking. AND only after we
got married.. The bottles came out..

NO the drinking WAS not OK with me.. And YES I wanted her to stop.. IT took
years to get to stop. Otherwise while she was drunk there would be major
fights and all of the.. I saw the middle finger ALOT.. I heard curse words
that I never heard before.

And OFF to bed she went. She would drink and sleep, drink and sleep and do
more of that. Then Monday would come.. Since I posted, the original poster said that she had always behaved this way and that perhaps she is still drinking. He doesn't trust her sponsor or her new friends. So, now I feel that without more objective information -- or her version of the story -- there is no way, really, of knowing what happened or is happening.

I thought you were talking about me. WELL I guess my story is the same. What precipitated her going into recovery? Does she trust her sponsor and is her sponsor actually good for her recovery; are her AA friends *really* bad for her or are they excellent for her recovery but bad in her husband's eyes, who has said that her recovery has been hell on the marriage?

HER AA friends are really anti male people. REAL male bashers.. I went to
ONE AA meeting and I heard this lady say.

I miss my husband BUT my aim is getting better..

IT was self esteem work VIA me and the men.. LOTS of put downs.. Nothing was
every good enought.. NOTHING

When I brought home $50K for the year IT was not good. And $30K was not
good.My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my
recovery. Ihadenough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought nevercrossed my head.My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance couldtouch. Being in the rooms, though, you did see people struggle with their marriages in early recovery, didn't you? And, often it's talked about -- and very common -- to develop other behaviors when putting down one - alcohol, in this case. Substitution is commonly talked about. Avoid all substances of abuse when you put one down. Then, many, unable to deal efficiently because they don't have the tools, turn to different destructive behavior. I don't find it unusual that she would be anxious and pick at her skin after becoming sober, struggling with marriage and a daughter, money, lawyers, etc. How long does it take to develop healthy coping mechanisms? Depends on the person, how long drunk (in this case long time), lots of things. I'm not supporting her self-destructive behavior, nor saying it's a "sign" she is recovering. It *is* a disorder of anxiety - self-mutilation. I don't know whether or not she was anxious before she stoped drinking, but she is now. I don't think we really can know what she is going through from his perception of it. This was a marriage founded when the woman was drunk, and remained so for 13 years, and I find the mental health or perceptions of the husband suspect for this reason.

ARE you talking about me.. OR someone else?? ME I think I don't think anyone here can discuss her "program" by hearing only from her husband.

???

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:03 PM

Frank

04-18-2004, 01:32 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:43:38 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
This is the reason I said I need Help and started Al-alon.. MY life wasunmanagleable due to Alochol

Given your wife's cessation of drinking, is your life now manageable?
Or could it be that alcohol was not really the cause of your life's
unmanageability in the first place?

Frank

04-18-2004, 01:32 PM

Frank

04-18-2004, 01:35 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:06:05 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you work the program, starting with Step 1.I am on step 4

I would suggest another, closer, look at Step 1.

Frank

04-18-2004, 01:35 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:57 PM

NO

With her mood swings and the HELL she has been putting me thru with
sobriety. When she was drinking that was easy..

NOW she is sober. WELL I think she is.

This is the hard part..
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:1a1acdc8d6ad891fabd88c80306c552c@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:43:38 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:This is the reason I said I need Help and started Al-alon.. MY life wasunmanagleable due to Alochol Given your wife's cessation of drinking, is your life now manageable? Or could it be that alcohol was not really the cause of your life's unmanageability in the first place?

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:57 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:57 PM

I did.. ALOT
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:5c48908d6d8a79c309944d7bb62b080b@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:06:05 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you work the program, starting with Step 1.I am on step 4 I would suggest another, closer, look at Step 1.

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 01:57 PM

Frank

04-18-2004, 02:36 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:57:40 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
I did.. ALOT

I'd suggest doing it again. You're still confusing unmanageability as
having anything at all to do with alcohol. This is a very common
confusion. "MY life was unmanageable due to Alcohol".... no, it
wasn't. If it was, removal of the alcohol would resolve the problem,
right?
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:5c48908d6d8a79c309944d7bb62b080b@news. teranews.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:06:05 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:> You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would> do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you> work the program, starting with Step 1.I am on step 4 I would suggest another, closer, look at Step 1.

Frank

04-18-2004, 02:36 PM

Frank

04-18-2004, 02:50 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:03:15 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She is on Anti-depression/anxiety meds.. BUT given to her by a GP.. And notmonitored well.

Ah, you didn't mention this before. What anxiety meds? She's
probably unable to recover from alcoholism if she's on **** like
valium.
HER AA friends are really anti male people. REAL male bashers.. I went toONE AA meeting and I heard this lady say.I miss my husband BUT my aim is getting better..

Sometimes things are said that are not intended to be taken seriously.

Frank

04-18-2004, 02:50 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:57 PM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:271c22f63453b8db953662905051de75@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:57:40 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:I did.. ALOT I'd suggest doing it again. You're still confusing unmanageability as having anything at all to do with alcohol. This is a very common confusion. "MY life was unmanageable due to Alcohol".... no, it wasn't. If it was, removal of the alcohol would resolve the problem, right?

NO there is more to this.. She is a ""Dry Drunk"" X 10..

You still have the ""stinking thinking"" And all that goes with it..

And they can't drink So they are UNHAPPY

THIS is the time for Step 1.. AT least for me..

Removing the drink.. just makes it worst"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:5c48908d6d8a79c309944d7bb62b080b@news. teranews.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:06:05 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: >> You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would >> do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest
you >> work the program, starting with Step 1. > >I am on step 4 I would suggest another, closer, look at Step 1.

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:57 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:58 PM

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:5e60400c835511b9deb30871eba1da05@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:03:15 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She is on Anti-depression/anxiety meds.. BUT given to her by a GP.. And
notmonitored well. Ah, you didn't mention this before. What anxiety meds? She's probably unable to recover from alcoholism if she's on **** like valium.

EffexorHER AA friends are really anti male people. REAL male bashers.. I went toONE AA meeting and I heard this lady say.I miss my husband BUT my aim is getting better.. Sometimes things are said that are not intended to be taken seriously.

YES that is just one example.. Self Esteem building thru the husband..

Mike Kulyk

04-18-2004, 03:58 PM

Frank

04-18-2004, 06:26 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
Effexor

She has mood swings and does stuff like cutting. Maybe the meds need
a review.

Frank

04-18-2004, 06:26 PM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
Effexor

She has mood swings and does stuff like cutting. Maybe the meds need
a review.

JWB

04-18-2004, 06:33 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:n2Cgc.55041$_g4.6792787@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
I don't understand.. IF she wathdraws.. WELL what can I do.. Leave me
alone is leave me alone.. I can't make her sleep in OUR bed if she doesn't want to. I allowed all the changes she needed and wanted.. Meetings.retreats,
FUN stuff she wanted to do with the AA women. FUN stuff alone when she wanted
to do that. AND family stuff to. I tried to bend over backwards to do the
RIGHT thing. I didn't always know what that was. BUT I tired

why are you capitalizing random words?

JWB

04-18-2004, 06:33 PM

Carrie

04-18-2004, 07:59 PM

I unfortunaetly dont have any advice, but i will pray for you. I dont
know your religion, so I am not gonna tell you something that may be
against yours. You are a very strong person to take the vows THAT
serious and there should more of you like that in the world (of both
genders).

Carrie

Carrie

04-18-2004, 07:59 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:14 AM

YES..

BUT how does one get that done?? She needs to see a shrink (sorry to early
to spell the correct name) She won't do that
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:e1e7b3ab37d81b7ff3124ec182f89de4@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:Effexor She has mood swings and does stuff like cutting. Maybe the meds need a review.

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:14 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:15 AM

To stress the meaning.
"JWB" <tom123421@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot
com> wrote in message news:lUGgc.24025$mX.7493478@twister.nyc.rr.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:n2Cgc.55041$_g4.6792787@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... I don't understand.. IF she wathdraws.. WELL what can I do.. Leave me alone is leave me alone.. I can't make her sleep in OUR bed if she doesn't
want to. I allowed all the changes she needed and wanted.. Meetings.retreats, FUN stuff she wanted to do with the AA women. FUN stuff alone when she
wanted to do that. AND family stuff to. I tried to bend over backwards to do the RIGHT thing. I didn't always know what that was. BUT I tired why are you capitalizing random words?

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:15 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:16 AM

Thanks

I am Christian.

Mike
"Carrie" <gandc_aries@webtv.net> wrote in message news:11058-40834EBC-239@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...
I unfortunaetly dont have any advice, but i will pray for you. I dont
know your religion, so I am not gonna tell you something that may be
against yours. You are a very strong person to take the vows THAT
serious and there should more of you like that in the world (of both
genders).

Carrie

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's my cool page

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 03:16 AM

Jennifer

04-19-2004, 05:53 AM

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
Effexor

Effexor is an antidepressant and not the first choice, meaning first
one, given for anxiety. See here, info about Effexor:

http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-e02.html

Anxiety is a common side effect.

Here is a link to alt.support.anxiety-panic, though I'm sure you can
find it through whatever newsreader you're using:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.support.anxiety-panic

You'll get a lot of info about anxiety medications there, and answers
to your questions about them.

I want to apologize to you for my focusing on your wife's feelings and
not yours. I think I responded to your saying that the marriage has
been hell since she went into recovery, and your saying it would be
good if someone "talked sense" into her. Clearly you and she have a
more complicated situation than her drinking and recovery, more
complicated than is fully understandable from these posts.

My automatic empahty, and I apologize for this, was for the recovering
person and your response to her. I see, now, things (thought I don't
know what things) go way back, and of course you are having a terribly
hard time as well.

I'm curious how often you go to AlAnon meetings? I've not heard much
about AlAnon in your posts or language. Have you found it helpful for
you in dealing with this? Are you responding to the program -
meaning, does it feel right for you, its philosophy, in your gut? Can
you keep going to meetings, multiple days a week to see what's it's
like to "work the program"? When I said something about judging her
program, in response to your disliking her sponsor or AA friends, you
didn't know what that meant, so I'm thinking you haven't been to
enough meetings to be familiar with the lingo. This isn't a judgment
at all - many people don't respond to the 12-step way at all, and
everyone has to find his own way.

And mostly, I apologize for not being sympathetic enough to you in
having such a difficult time finding *your* way.

You asked why I was focused on her in my replies, and I guess it's
because you did in your initial posts. Now I see that perhaps you
need to focus more on your well-being and how to achieve it - and I
don't mean by ignoring/disregarding/outside the marriage. You need
coping mechanisms that will work and help you see things clearly.

Your posts have been erratic, and rather than replying to each it may
be a better idea for you to find a way to pull it together, in a way
that works for you - be it 12-step, therapy, friends who truly know
you, all of the above, etc. What has worked for you in the past when
going through hard times? Religion, counseling, 12-step....? Seek
these things because, in addition to your marriage and your wife's
behavior and recovery, you are struggling - not merely as a result of
her but *you as a person. Take care of you. Since she's taken to AA,
I suggested giving AlAnon a true chance. It may not be for you,
though.

Is she open to couples counseling? Are you open to having therapy on
your own? I think you have a lot to work out. And again, I see now,
that the initial posts were about her, but you've got a lot going on.
At first I thought you didn't see what was going on for her, but now I
think I didn't see how much is going on for you. You're all over the
place emotionally and logically; you're confused and you need to find
grounding.

No one can talk your sense into another person. What you think makes
sense now, may not make sense. You and she both and together have so
much happening that your posts are too contradictory and complicated
to be solved in a few replies on a newsgroup.

Learn about you, about her, about your relationship. This includes
anxiety disorders, alcoholism, enabling, depression, abuse, all the
things you mentioned. You presented it as her behavior to start, but
I think you, too, have to look at yourself and your feelings -
depression? anger? coping skills? You can't make her be anything, but
you can work on youself and you, together, can work on your
relationship.

- Jennifer

Jennifer

04-19-2004, 05:53 AM

Frank

04-19-2004, 05:53 AM

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:14:26 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
YES..BUT how does one get that done?? She needs to see a shrink (sorry to earlyto spell the correct name) She won't do that

That's her choice. I suggested that maybe the meds need a review, I
have no idea how you go about achieving that review. She has to
either want the review, or at least become willing to go through with
it.
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:e1e7b3ab37d81b7ff3124ec182f89de4@news. teranews.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:Effexor She has mood swings and does stuff like cutting. Maybe the meds need a review.

Frank

04-19-2004, 05:53 AM

JWB

04-19-2004, 06:33 AM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:WwOgc.60732$_g4.9123691@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... To stress the meaning.

But it almost makes no sense. Like below, I can see capitalizing "our" -
that makes sense. But "well"??
"JWB" <tom123421@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:lUGgc.24025$mX.7493478@twister.nyc.rr.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:n2Cgc.55041$_g4.6792787@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... I don't understand.. IF she wathdraws.. WELL what can I do.. Leave me alone is leave me alone.. I can't make her sleep in OUR bed if she doesn't want to. I allowed all the changes she needed and wanted..
Meetings.retreats, FUN stuff she wanted to do with the AA women. FUN stuff alone when she wanted to do that. AND family stuff to. I tried to bend over backwards to do the RIGHT thing. I didn't always know what that was. BUT I tired why are you capitalizing random words?

JWB

04-19-2004, 06:33 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 06:38 AM

Thanks

This is what the GP is giving her.
"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:934ff66f683910a973ffbeab25463fca@news.teranew s.com... On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 23:58:18 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:Effexor Effexor is an antidepressant and not the first choice, meaning first one, given for anxiety. See here, info about Effexor: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-e02.html Anxiety is a common side effect. Here is a link to alt.support.anxiety-panic, though I'm sure you can find it through whatever newsreader you're using: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.support.anxiety-panic You'll get a lot of info about anxiety medications there, and answers to your questions about them. I want to apologize to you for my focusing on your wife's feelings and not yours. I think I responded to your saying that the marriage has been hell since she went into recovery, and your saying it would be good if someone "talked sense" into her. Clearly you and she have a more complicated situation than her drinking and recovery, more complicated than is fully understandable from these posts. My automatic empahty, and I apologize for this, was for the recovering person and your response to her. I see, now, things (thought I don't know what things) go way back, and of course you are having a terribly hard time as well. I'm curious how often you go to AlAnon meetings? I've not heard much about AlAnon in your posts or language. Have you found it helpful for you in dealing with this? Are you responding to the program - meaning, does it feel right for you, its philosophy, in your gut? Can you keep going to meetings, multiple days a week to see what's it's like to "work the program"? When I said something about judging her program, in response to your disliking her sponsor or AA friends, you didn't know what that meant, so I'm thinking you haven't been to enough meetings to be familiar with the lingo. This isn't a judgment at all - many people don't respond to the 12-step way at all, and everyone has to find his own way. And mostly, I apologize for not being sympathetic enough to you in having such a difficult time finding *your* way. You asked why I was focused on her in my replies, and I guess it's because you did in your initial posts. Now I see that perhaps you need to focus more on your well-being and how to achieve it - and I don't mean by ignoring/disregarding/outside the marriage. You need coping mechanisms that will work and help you see things clearly. Your posts have been erratic, and rather than replying to each it may be a better idea for you to find a way to pull it together, in a way that works for you - be it 12-step, therapy, friends who truly know you, all of the above, etc. What has worked for you in the past when going through hard times? Religion, counseling, 12-step....? Seek these things because, in addition to your marriage and your wife's behavior and recovery, you are struggling - not merely as a result of her but *you as a person. Take care of you. Since she's taken to AA, I suggested giving AlAnon a true chance. It may not be for you, though. Is she open to couples counseling? Are you open to having therapy on your own? I think you have a lot to work out. And again, I see now, that the initial posts were about her, but you've got a lot going on. At first I thought you didn't see what was going on for her, but now I think I didn't see how much is going on for you. You're all over the place emotionally and logically; you're confused and you need to find grounding. No one can talk your sense into another person. What you think makes sense now, may not make sense. You and she both and together have so much happening that your posts are too contradictory and complicated to be solved in a few replies on a newsgroup. Learn about you, about her, about your relationship. This includes anxiety disorders, alcoholism, enabling, depression, abuse, all the things you mentioned. You presented it as her behavior to start, but I think you, too, have to look at yourself and your feelings - depression? anger? coping skills? You can't make her be anything, but you can work on youself and you, together, can work on your relationship. - Jennifer

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 06:38 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 07:16 AM

"JWB" <tom123421@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot
com> wrote in message news:5rRgc.24557$mX.7624611@twister.nyc.rr.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:WwOgc.60732$_g4.9123691@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... To stress the meaning. But it almost makes no sense. Like below, I can see capitalizing "our" - that makes sense. But "well"??

I wanted to stress the leaving of the marital bed.. "JWB" <tom123421@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:lUGgc.24025$mX.7493478@twister.nyc.rr.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:n2Cgc.55041$_g4.6792787@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... > > I don't understand.. IF she wathdraws.. WELL what can I do.. Leave
me alone > is leave me alone.. I can't make her sleep in OUR bed if she doesn't want > to. I allowed all the changes she needed and wanted.. Meetings.retreats, FUN > stuff she wanted to do with the AA women. FUN stuff alone when she wanted to > do that. AND family stuff to. I tried to bend over backwards to do
the RIGHT > thing. I didn't always know what that was. BUT I tired why are you capitalizing random words?

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 07:16 AM

Seeker

04-19-2004, 07:25 AM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:lBEgc.56908$_g4.7331026@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... NO there is more to this.. She is a ""Dry Drunk"" X 10.. You still have the ""stinking thinking"" And all that goes with it..
Sobriety or serenity by slogan doesn't work.

Ted

Seeker

04-19-2004, 07:25 AM

A man

04-19-2004, 09:02 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT in article <8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780
@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save the relationship, there's not much more to do,
except talk to a lawyer. Really, I'm all for trying everything to save a
relationship worth saving, but the key phrase here is "worth saving". And it
sounds like you have tried everything.
The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who..

And now you find out the relationship is not worth saving anymore. I'm sorry to
have to tell you this. It's hard to end a long-term relationship. My wife and I
had been married for 10 years.
She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars.

Inpatient hospitalization and self-destruction (drinking and picking at skin)
are serious issues. As a friend who doesn't know you, I'm trying to tell you
nicely, no matter how much it hurts: "The ship is sinking! Grab a lifeboat and
get out!"
She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room.

Again, she is distancing herself from you. You might interpret it as a test or
call for help, but she is an adult now and if she wants help she has to ask for
it. Sounds like you're too good for her anyway, you've been very patient trying
everything you can think of and putting up with lots of verbal abuse. This is
pretty bad for any children in the household too.
I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious.

Taking marriage vows seriously does not include putting up with constant verbal
abuse, wrecking your joint finaces, harming your children (by hearing the
constant fights), or staying on a sinking ship. You already proved you take
your vows seriously. Now I advise you to get out, and get custody of any kids.

I'm sorry, I know this will be very hard for you. But once she's away from you
you will be much happier.

--
Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

A man

04-19-2004, 09:02 AM

A man

04-19-2004, 09:08 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT in article <M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481
@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

Sounds like she doesn't care for you anyway if she took you off the insurance
before the divorce was final. At least my STBX still has me on her insurance.
I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so.

Probably not. She's angry and wants to hurt someone. You're the closest target.
My lawyer says in his experience, it's mostly the women that are bitter and try
to make things worse. It matches mine and my father's experience, though.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

I really don't think you caused the drinking, especially if it was happening
before you met her or married her. I also can guess that you're not perfect,
and neither am I. People choose to drink. Drinks don't cause themselves to be
consumed. Stupid therapist.

First, the therapist broke some cardinal rules of therapy:
1. Don't blame anyone or point fingers.
2. Try to be neutral in a couples situation.

--
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A man

04-19-2004, 09:08 AM

A man

04-19-2004, 09:14 AM

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:07:09 GMT in article <xMigc.33243$_g4.3079449
@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... "Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no... Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes: I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the.. The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So insacure about MOM going away.

Kids up to about age 9-10 will usually side with the mom no matter what
happens, because they don't understand long-term consequences of staying with
someone that has bad habits. Try to understand the kid's reaction is more
visceral, rather than based on thought. They are not capable of very complex
thought at this age. Plus, mom is usually the nurturer, and dad the
disciplinarian, and at this age the kids prefer the nurturer who doesn't
discipline them, naturally.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away.. They are alive because I did..

Make sure you keep a log with the date and time all these events happened.
Start now and list all the things that have happened in the past WHICH YOU
WITNESSED. I'm glad you took the car away. The daughter is NOT SAFE with the
mother and she could end up dead. Seriously. Now you need to use this log in
the custody battle against your wife. With custody you should get child
support. But getting a job and holding it will also help in your custody fight.
I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was selling me.. ITS me..

Did the therapist ask you to leave or did the wife? There's a difference. But
the therapist sounds like a liberal scag if she subscribes to the co-dependant
stuff. It relieves the people with the problems of any responsibility.
NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

I'm glad you realize it. That's the first step in getting away from your wife
and making your kids safe. I'm happy that you took this first step. :) You can
do it, all is not lost. Each day will only get better once you are away from
her. She is like an energy vampire, she just takes and takes and drains you.

--
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A man

04-19-2004, 09:14 AM

A man

04-19-2004, 09:42 AM

Tell you what, Mike. You should get a divorce now and save your kid. If the
wife is really all that great, you can always remarry later.

I might sound coarse and direct, but I can understand your pain. And I don't
want you to go through any more of it.

Mike, if you read only one post let it be this one. I was the 6 year old with a
crazy, disfunctional mom when my mom kicked my dad out of the house. I didn't
know why he left only that "they weren't getting along". Since I sided with the
nurturing mom, the court awarded me and my sis to her. Not that I could decide
in court, I was under the age of 'understanding' or whatever they call it.

By the time I was about 12 I could see that mom did things that "didn't make
sense", like she was one brick short of a full load, one beer short of a six-
pack, know what I mean?

The more I lived with her the more I didn't like living with her. She was
instable, had trouble holding a job, and had pretty extreme mood swings. I
wished I had gone with my dad but I didn't know about "nurturing" or
"disciplining" or "long term thinking". Which is why you have to fight for your
daughter. It was very painful to be attached to your half-crazy mom and be
helpless to do anything about it. I couldn't move, I was tired of losing
friends and moving. Dad lived 200 miles away and I only saw him about 3 times
per year. She tried everything to keep us away from him.

I think there's a good chance your wife will keep your kid away from you also.
She is not thinking right. You have to prove to the judge that she is an unfit
mother. There are several dimensions a judge looks at for being a "fit" parent.

- Can the parent hold a job and pay the bills?
She won't be able to for long while the drinking continues. It will wear her
down physically and emotionally.

- Is the job mentally stable? Or are they abusive, physically or verbally?
Your wife is clearly unstable as she is a self-destructive alcoholic who picks
at her skin until drawing blood, and she drives drunk.

- Is the parent morally fit? Will they get the child to church, encourage them
to go out with friends, and help them see the other parent?

- Will the parent encourage the child at school and in school activities?

Good luck finding a job. Start with an easier job and a dinky apartment you can
afford. Or try to stay at a friends house for a couple weeks.

--
Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

A man

04-19-2004, 09:42 AM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:45 PM

"A man" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:c61356$6jkf9$1@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de... Tell you what, Mike. You should get a divorce now and save your kid. If
the wife is really all that great, you can always remarry later.

I wish I could get our daugther away from her I might sound coarse and direct, but I can understand your pain. And I
don't want you to go through any more of it. Mike, if you read only one post let it be this one. I was the 6 year old
with a crazy, disfunctional mom when my mom kicked my dad out of the house. I
didn't know why he left only that "they weren't getting along". Since I sided
with the nurturing mom, the court awarded me and my sis to her. Not that I could
decide in court, I was under the age of 'understanding' or whatever they call it.

I don't know if the court will give me the daughter By the time I was about 12 I could see that mom did things that "didn't
make sense", like she was one brick short of a full load, one beer short of a
six- pack, know what I mean? The more I lived with her the more I didn't like living with her. She was instable, had trouble holding a job, and had pretty extreme mood swings. I wished I had gone with my dad but I didn't know about "nurturing" or "disciplining" or "long term thinking". Which is why you have to fight for
your daughter. It was very painful to be attached to your half-crazy mom and be helpless to do anything about it. I couldn't move, I was tired of losing friends and moving. Dad lived 200 miles away and I only saw him about 3
times per year. She tried everything to keep us away from him. I think there's a good chance your wife will keep your kid away from you
also. She is not thinking right. You have to prove to the judge that she is an
unfit mother. There are several dimensions a judge looks at for being a "fit"
parent. - Can the parent hold a job and pay the bills? She won't be able to for long while the drinking continues. It will wear
her down physically and emotionally.

She HAS been sober for 2 years.. - Is the job mentally stable? Or are they abusive, physically or verbally? Your wife is clearly unstable as she is a self-destructive alcoholic who
picks at her skin until drawing blood, and she drives drunk.

She is a supervisor - Is the parent morally fit? Will they get the child to church, encourage
them to go out with friends, and help them see the other parent?

NO church - Will the parent encourage the child at school and in school activities? Good luck finding a job. Start with an easier job and a dinky apartment
you can afford. Or try to stay at a friends house for a couple weeks.

I am not out of the house yet.. -- Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:45 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:52 PM

"A man" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:c611ib$6pdu0$7@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:07:09 GMT in article <xMigc.33243$_g4.3079449 @news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... "Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no... Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes: I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of
the.. The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to
sleep when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So insacure about MOM going away. Kids up to about age 9-10 will usually side with the mom no matter what happens, because they don't understand long-term consequences of staying
with someone that has bad habits. Try to understand the kid's reaction is more visceral, rather than based on thought. They are not capable of very
complex thought at this age. Plus, mom is usually the nurturer, and dad the disciplinarian, and at this age the kids prefer the nurturer who doesn't discipline them, naturally.

YES I am the disciplinarian.. I don't allow the kid to sleep with the TV on
all night Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and
throws the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car
away.. They are alive because I did.. Make sure you keep a log with the date and time all these events happened. Start now and list all the things that have happened in the past WHICH YOU WITNESSED. I'm glad you took the car away. The daughter is NOT SAFE with
the mother and she could end up dead. Seriously. Now you need to use this log
in the custody battle against your wife. With custody you should get child support. But getting a job and holding it will also help in your custody
fight.

This stopped after rehab 2 + years ago.. I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was selling me.. ITS me.. Did the therapist ask you to leave or did the wife? There's a difference.
But the therapist sounds like a liberal scag if she subscribes to the
co-dependant stuff. It relieves the people with the problems of any responsibility.

I was told to leave when I was alone with her (the therpist) NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it.. I'm glad you realize it. That's the first step in getting away from your
wife and making your kids safe. I'm happy that you took this first step. :) You
can do it, all is not lost. Each day will only get better once you are away
from her. She is like an energy vampire, she just takes and takes and drains
you.

I am still in the house with the wife and daughter.. I can't get a crap job.
OR a dinky apartment. NO money.

I can't get hired at the supermarket.. I have a degree in engineering and 12
years experence in computers.

LOTS of skill and I am over qualified for the dinky job.. I applied for a
Post office job JUST pushing mail about.. The guy laughed at me.. HOW long
are you going to stay with your experences.. 1 week, 2 maybe a month before
a better job comes about HE told me.. I said NO.. BUT he didn't buy it -- Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:52 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:53 PM

"A man" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:c6115g$6pdu0$6@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT in article <M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481 @news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Sounds like she doesn't care for you anyway if she took you off the
insurance before the divorce was final. At least my STBX still has me on her
insurance.

She told me it was a major mood swing.. Ands she did this. She is on birth
control pills for chance of life stuff, Hormones are all over the place.
MOOD swings all day. I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't
know if she will continue to do so. Probably not. She's angry and wants to hurt someone. You're the closest
target. My lawyer says in his experience, it's mostly the women that are bitter
and try to make things worse. It matches mine and my father's experience, though.

I will see As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills.
SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for
public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay
and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs
of her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with
the child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER
lawyer and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see
the correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this
therapist states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't
think so. She was drinking way before me. I really don't think you caused the drinking, especially if it was
happening before you met her or married her. I also can guess that you're not
perfect, and neither am I. People choose to drink. Drinks don't cause themselves to
be consumed. Stupid therapist. First, the therapist broke some cardinal rules of therapy: 1. Don't blame anyone or point fingers. 2. Try to be neutral in a couples situation.

YES -- Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:53 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:59 PM

"A man" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:c610q6$6pdu0$5@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT in article <8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780 @news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, mkulyk@optonline.net spoke thusly... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. If she doesn't want to save the relationship, there's not much more to do, except talk to a lawyer. Really, I'm all for trying everything to save a relationship worth saving, but the key phrase here is "worth saving". And
it sounds like you have tried everything.

So she gets the daugther and all and I get a dinky apartment.. NO I didn't
do anything wrong.

I did the best I could.. So I want the child and almony and child support.
And she can walk.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who.. And now you find out the relationship is not worth saving anymore. I'm
sorry to have to tell you this. It's hard to end a long-term relationship. My wife
and I had been married for 10 years. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she
was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first
divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the
drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds.
All over her arms and legs are scars. Inpatient hospitalization and self-destruction (drinking and picking at
skin) are serious issues. As a friend who doesn't know you, I'm trying to tell
you nicely, no matter how much it hurts: "The ship is sinking! Grab a lifeboat
and get out!"

I have no place to go.. If I get the child FULL time, almony, and child
support she can walk in the morning She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with
our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. Again, she is distancing herself from you. You might interpret it as a
test or call for help, but she is an adult now and if she wants help she has to
ask for it. Sounds like you're too good for her anyway, you've been very patient
trying everything you can think of and putting up with lots of verbal abuse. This
is pretty bad for any children in the household too.

YES.. Well she will not tell the child NO. GO back to your bed. SO she
sleeps with her. She did come to our bed once last week.. TO get a good
nights sleep.. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the
same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Taking marriage vows seriously does not include putting up with constant
verbal abuse, wrecking your joint finaces, harming your children (by hearing the constant fights), or staying on a sinking ship. You already proved you
take your vows seriously. Now I advise you to get out, and get custody of any
kids.

That is what I want.. THE child, and cash.. I'm sorry, I know this will be very hard for you. But once she's away from
you you will be much happier. -- Say no to fixed width tables. They look terrible in all browsers.

Mike Kulyk

04-19-2004, 02:59 PM

shinypenny

04-20-2004, 04:44 AM

A man <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message news:<c61356$6jkf9$1@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de>...

There are several dimensions a judge looks at for being a "fit" parent.

Unfortunately, it may not be as simple as you suggest....
- Can the parent hold a job and pay the bills? She won't be able to for long while the drinking continues. It will wear her down physically and emotionally.

His wife apparently has had no trouble holding down a job and paying
the bills, even when she was drinking. It's the husband who has a
history of job instability.
- Is the job mentally stable? Or are they abusive, physically or verbally? Your wife is clearly unstable as she is a self-destructive alcoholic who picks at her skin until drawing blood, and she drives drunk.

However, she is now in recovery and has been for 2 years, attending
AA, seeing a therapist, and taking the ADs prescribed for her. I
assume the drunk-driving incident happened in the past. A judge will
note that, and care that she's taking these steps -- not necessarily
how well they are working -- intentions count more. She could make the
case that her skin-picking is a factor of her anxiety over a bad
marital relationship, and that this might be resolved upon divorce.
- Is the parent morally fit? Will they get the child to church, encourage them to go out with friends, and help them see the other parent?

Judge will definetly not pass judgements about who is more morally fit
(remember, we have separation of church and state in this country). I
wouldn't waste any time or effort building a case in this area.
- Will the parent encourage the child at school and in school activities?

This may play a factor, but honestly, the key factor will be who has
spent more time with the child since birth. Quantity weighs much more
than quality.

I don't see anything *currently* that indicates the mom is unfit. She
may have been unfit before - but now she seems to have indications she
is trying to turn her life around. Unless you can prove that the
parent *recently* put the child in danger somehow (for example by
driving drunk *recently*), or that the parent is not actively involved
in therapy/recovery (i.e. not taking prescribed medicine or seeing a
therapist), you'll have a hard time proving unfitness.

In fact, it could even backfire on the OP if he comes in making a
claim that his wife is a recovering alcoholic, and drags up all the
past incidences. The judge is going to wonder, "Gee, if the mom was
*that* bad, why didn't this guy take steps back then to protect his
child from her? I.e., separate until she got her act together? Get his
daughter into therapy? Why is he bringing all of this up now -- only
*after* she's filed for divorce?"

Good luck finding a job. Start with an easier job and a dinky apartment you can afford. Or try to stay at a friends house for a couple weeks.

Yes, the OP will definetly need to find and hold a job. Right now his
wife looks like the more stable choice because she has a stable job.
With that said, if the OP can prove he did the lion's share of
child-rearing while his wife was working full-time -- because he was
out of work and a stay-at-home dad -- then that's the card he'd be
very smart to play. That counts a whole lot (remember, it's quantity
of time more than quality). The judge will want to maintain the status
quo as much as possible, and if the OP was the primary caregiver since
birth (even if due to his unemployment status and not necessarily a
mutual choice that he'd be the SAHP), the judge will take that into
account above all else. Harping about who is more *morally* fit, or
dragging up past issues, will only make him look like he's being
vindictive, at that will probably backfire.

To the OP: you're going to need a very good lawyer. And start
documenting everything.

jen

shinypenny

04-20-2004, 04:44 AM

Stephanie Stowe

04-20-2004, 12:48 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message news:slrnc83i8o.at8.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do that to you. -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter
weekend. SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks
that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem..
I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to.. Something I have a hard time understanding.. After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this.. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

It seems like you had better start thinking about protecting yourself in a
divorce.

Stephanie Stowe

04-20-2004, 12:48 PM

Mike Kulyk

04-20-2004, 02:06 PM

"Stephanie Stowe" <stowe@whackthisvsac.org> wrote in message
news:_bidnZOtbr4NERjd4p2dnA@telcove.net... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message news:slrnc83i8o.at8.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: > She filed for divorce on Sept 28th > > I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. > > On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. > > I really didn't know that this group was around. > > I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally
do that to you.

The lawyer went nuts.. Nothing he could do.. OPEN enrollment passed.. -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence,
it's time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional..
A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the
problem.. I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to.. Something I have a hard time understanding.. After 16 years and a
child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work
on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this.. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information. It seems like you had better start thinking about protecting yourself in a divorce.

YES.. I have NO job, no medical insurance, and she is talking about leaving
with the daughter and not paying for the gas,electric, and stuff..

Well I am heading to a al-alon meeting tonight

Mike Kulyk

04-20-2004, 02:06 PM

Bill TB

04-20-2004, 05:13 PM

Mike Kulyk wrote: Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike
Mike,
The "white knuckle" approach to getting off booze does not work from my
experience - it is as you know, a disease of denial. Until that is
accepted and acted upon, the veneer of sobriety is flaky. Not at all
easy to deal with and I can only agree that attending the relevant
groups is about the best approach.
All the best,
Bill

Bill TB

04-20-2004, 05:13 PM

shinypenny

04-20-2004, 05:33 PM

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<FRYgc.65775$_g4.11078768@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
So she gets the daugther and all and I get a dinky apartment.. NO I didn't do anything wrong. I did the best I could.. So I want the child and almony and child support. And she can walk.. I have no place to go.. If I get the child FULL time, almony, and child support she can walk in the morning That is what I want.. THE child, and cash..

Which is more important, the child or the cash? Are you hoping if you
get the child full time, that the cash will follow?

The biggest mistake people make when they go into a custody battle,
IMHO, is taking an "all or nothing" stance. Judges don't like to play
King Solomon. To win sole custody, one must get down and nasty and
make a case that the other parent is unfit. No matter what the truth
or outcome, when two parents fight for sole custody, it gets really
messy, the fur flies, the child suffers greatly from the hostility,
things drag out endlessly, your lives will be on hold for eons, and
you might as well flush all your money down the toilet.

As bad as your wife has been in the past (and I do sincerely
sympathize with you on that), from the details you've shared you have
a very weak case so far. I'm sorry to tell you that -- I know it seems
different to you, having lived through hell for most of your marriage.
But the facts are your wife has been sober for two years; she is in
AA; she is in therapy; she is taking her meds (whether they work or
not - intent is key here); and she, unlike you, is gainfully and
stably employed.

If you go into court with your current facts, the judge may likely
conclude you're going after full-time custody simply because you will
get the child support and the house that goes along with that status.

How about this proposal: you share custody 50-50. You sell the house
and split the proceeds, using it to both move into smaller dwellings.
You split any other savings you have 50-50 as well. She provides you
with some child support to help facilitate this arrangement while you
get back on your feet financially, and agrees to cover your medical
insurance and the childs' until you're employed again. Child support
would cease changing hands once you found a job.

Shared custody would give you the opportunity to be involved with your
child in a more meaningful way than the standard every-other-week
arrangement. You'd be able to keep a much closer eye on the situation
at mom's house. You could even give your daughter a cell phone -- the
type that only allows her to call two numbers - yours and the police
-- and you could teach her to call you or the police if there's ever a
time when she doesn't feel safe with mom. *Then* if down the road mom
went off the wagon, daughter is protected.

And should your daughter ever need to use that cell phone, the chances
are very good that you could then walk into court with documented
proof that mom is, indeed, unfit and a danger to the child.

jen

shinypenny

04-20-2004, 05:33 PM