Hello All

I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been
married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of
the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try
to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,
counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,
and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka
in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know
who..

She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was
inpatient before that.

We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce
court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking,
the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All
over her arms and legs are scars.

And I think she still does it.

She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our
8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room.

I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same).
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is
spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious.

Any one have any ideas..

THANKS

Mike

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the
drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with
our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the
same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas..

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further.
I hope that you and she can find some way
to cope with this and recover from it.

You and she are already getting help
where I would suggest that you look for it.

What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent?
(What triggered the divorce?
Why did you choose to post now?)
How well are you coping with this?
--
Tsam

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the
drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with
our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the
same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas..

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further.
I hope that you and she can find some way
to cope with this and recover from it.

You and she are already getting help
where I would suggest that you look for it.

What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent?
(What triggered the divorce?
Why did you choose to post now?)
How well are you coping with this?
--
Tsam

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who..
<snip>

Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk".
Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of
her, but
she has not embraced recovery.

Continue to go to Al-anon.
I take the marriage vows serious.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't
know who..
<snip>

Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk".
Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of
her, but
she has not embraced recovery.

Continue to go to Al-anon.
I take the marriage vows serious.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

She filed for divorce on Sept 28th

I thought that some way I could talk her out of this.

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

I really didn't know that this group was around.

I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know
if she will continue to do so.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I
was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public
assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and
pay the bills. SO last night she came home.

This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of
her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the
child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer
and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the
correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist
states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think
so. She was drinking way before me.

I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't
know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am
sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company.
Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I
thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job
was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be
productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was
fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW
I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

Thanks

Mike
"Tsam Nami" <tsam-nami@tidal.wav> wrote in message
news:PQegc.14238$A_4.4332@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she
was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first
divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds.
All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas.. Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further. I hope that you and she can find some way to cope with this and recover from it. You and she are already getting help where I would suggest that you look for it. What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent? (What triggered the divorce? Why did you choose to post now?) How well are you coping with this? -- Tsam

She filed for divorce on Sept 28th

I thought that some way I could talk her out of this.

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

I really didn't know that this group was around.

I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know
if she will continue to do so.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I
was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public
assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and
pay the bills. SO last night she came home.

This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of
her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the
child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer
and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the
correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist
states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think
so. She was drinking way before me.

I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't
know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am
sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company.
Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I
thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job
was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be
productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was
fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW
I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

Thanks

Mike
"Tsam Nami" <tsam-nami@tidal.wav> wrote in message
news:PQegc.14238$A_4.4332@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she
was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first
divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking, the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds.
All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our 8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same). And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas.. Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further. I hope that you and she can find some way to cope with this and recover from it. You and she are already getting help where I would suggest that you look for it. What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent? (What triggered the divorce? Why did you choose to post now?) How well are you coping with this? -- Tsam

YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""

She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..

SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

I have NO job and I am stuck..

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

Thanks

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s29a$kli$04$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. <snip> Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk". Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of her, but she has not embraced recovery. Continue to go to Al-anon. I take the marriage vows serious. That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t. Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""

She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..

SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

I have NO job and I am stuck..

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

Thanks

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s29a$kli$04$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years
of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to
try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings, and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know who.. <snip> Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk". Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of her, but she has not embraced recovery. Continue to go to Al-anon. I take the marriage vows serious. That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t. Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not
dependent on
external circumstances, but sorely from the individual.

When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great
deal of will.
I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of
course, nobody deals
better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon.

But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision, and
it appears
that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this mind
altering experience.
(Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they lived.)


I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.
I have NO job and I am stuck..

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing.
Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to
change the things
you can?

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not
dependent on
external circumstances, but sorely from the individual.

When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great
deal of will.
I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of
course, nobody deals
better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon.

But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision, and
it appears
that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this mind
altering experience.
(Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they lived.)


I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.
I have NO job and I am stuck..

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing.
Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to
change the things
you can?

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I
am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.
I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.
Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.
The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodkain her mouth.

She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is
she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it
with little else, and there's little solution.
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be
attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this
is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own
benefit.
I take the marriage vows serious.

And you want her to do likewise?

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her
biggest problem.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I
am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.
I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.
Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.
The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodkain her mouth.

She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is
she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it
with little else, and there's little solution.
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be
attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this
is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own
benefit.
I take the marriage vows serious.

And you want her to do likewise?

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her
biggest problem.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this
what she tells you the therapist said?

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by
the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an
unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps
not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial.

She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly
believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to
imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of
complete agreement.

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost
anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness.

However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her
drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a
different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at
recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or
go.
WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an
abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution
to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a
solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be
whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety
for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this
what she tells you the therapist said?

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by
the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an
unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps
not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial.

She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly
believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to
imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of
complete agreement.

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost
anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness.

However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her
drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a
different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at
recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or
go.
WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an
abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution
to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a
solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be
whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety
for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent
therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the
therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this
way.

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent
therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the
therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this
way.

I am glad you found recovery.

Well I guess she didn't hit rock bottom. I was always there with a big
pillow.

Thanks.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s9bh$md0$02$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not dependent on external circumstances, but sorely from the individual. When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great deal of will. I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of course, nobody deals better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon. But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision,
and it appears that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this
mind altering experience. (Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they
lived.) I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful.. Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever. I have NO job and I am stuck.. If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in
health.. Till death

This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing. Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can?

I am glad you found recovery.

Well I guess she didn't hit rock bottom. I was always there with a big
pillow.

Thanks.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s9bh$md0$02$1@news.t-online.com... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not dependent on external circumstances, but sorely from the individual. When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great deal of will. I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of course, nobody deals better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon. But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision,
and it appears that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this
mind altering experience. (Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they
lived.) I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful.. Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever. I have NO job and I am stuck.. If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in
health.. Till death

This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing. Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can?

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with the
child in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I was
not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial. She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of complete agreement.

IT was verbal Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness. However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or go.WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me. Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with the
child in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I was
not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial. She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of complete agreement.

IT was verbal Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness. However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or go.WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me. Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no... Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the..
The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab
thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep
when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So
insacure about MOM going away.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this
from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws
the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away..
They are alive because I did..
Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this way.

I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was
selling me.. ITS me..

NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no... Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes: On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the..
The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab
thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep
when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So
insacure about MOM going away.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this
from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws
the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away..
They are alive because I did..
Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this way.

I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was
selling me.. ITS me..

NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you
"caused" it.
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the
alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty
relating to other people.

A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not
doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in
blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always
helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk
into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then
gives become a question "what's your problem?"

That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a
point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the
problem.
If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm
saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her
problems.

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where
al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she
stays or not.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you
"caused" it.
What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the
alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty
relating to other people.

A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not
doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in
blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always
helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk
into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then
gives become a question "what's your problem?"

That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a
point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the
problem.
If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm
saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her
problems.

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where
al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she
stays or not.

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:16c0322391e65cec5c4803cd3430f08c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

Well there has to be a way.. I can't just give up on the family and loose my
daugher.. I don't want to be a P/T father.. Every weekend between Girl
Scouts and other social things she does.. I don't deserve that..The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodkain her mouth. She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

YES she could.. And maybe she is Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it with little else, and there's little solution.And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own benefit.

She has been attending for 8 years.. And YES you are rightI take the marriage vows serious. And you want her to do likewise?

YES.. it would be nice If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.

WHAT is??

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:16c0322391e65cec5c4803cd3430f08c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

Well there has to be a way.. I can't just give up on the family and loose my
daugher.. I don't want to be a P/T father.. Every weekend between Girl
Scouts and other social things she does.. I don't deserve that..The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood
swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put
vodkain her mouth. She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

YES she could.. And maybe she is Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it with little else, and there's little solution.And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own benefit.

She has been attending for 8 years.. And YES you are rightI take the marriage vows serious. And you want her to do likewise?

YES.. it would be nice If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.

WHAT is??

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I
think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses
insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You
might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,
they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been
offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance.
Do you have any documentation?
I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't
know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO
I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer

What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the sub
stand for?

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I
think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses
insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You
might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,
they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been
offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance.
Do you have any documentation?
I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't
know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO
I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer

What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the sub
stand for?

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:27f0f089bba368eb124ab4fb0c95460c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: >She only sees a therapist. And this therapist >states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I
wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go.. Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you "caused" it. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty relating to other people. A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then gives become a question "what's your problem?" That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the problem. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her problems.

NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.

BUT maybe I truly don't understand..

Explain See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she stays or not.

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:27f0f089bba368eb124ab4fb0c95460c@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: >She only sees a therapist. And this therapist >states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I
wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go.. Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you "caused" it. What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty relating to other people. A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then gives become a question "what's your problem?" That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the problem. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her problems.

NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.

BUT maybe I truly don't understand..

Explain See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she stays or not.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk
<mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do
that to you.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk
<mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do
that to you.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a
minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was
dropped.

I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one

SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job..

I have had NO insurance since Nov 1.

I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills.
SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for
public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay
and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for?

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a
minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was
dropped.

I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one

SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job..

I have had NO insurance since Nov 1.

I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills.
SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for
public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay
and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for?

"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc83i8o.at8.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do that to you. -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.

SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that
it will be better SHE will be happier without me.

That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A
real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem.. I
get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Something I have a hard time understanding.. After 16 years and a child..
Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on
her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

"Tony Miller" <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc83i8o.at8.tony@home.cigardiary.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, Mike Kulyk <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: She filed for divorce on Sept 28th I thought that some way I could talk her out of this. On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. Have you gotten a lawyer? I don't know if she is allowed to legally do that to you. -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.

SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that
it will be better SHE will be happier without me.

That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A
real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem.. I
get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Something I have a hard time understanding.. After 16 years and a child..
Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on
her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks
that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem..
I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce.
If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any
way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn
things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but
it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make
things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event
of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what does
the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's
working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her).
Something I have a hard time understanding..

Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of
people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However,
sometimes things just *don't* make sense.

After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..>

How is your daughter doing?

Joy

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks
that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional.. A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the problem..
I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to..

Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce.
If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any
way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn
things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but
it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make
things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event
of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what does
the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's
working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her).
Something I have a hard time understanding..

Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of
people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However,
sometimes things just *don't* make sense.

After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..>

How is your daughter doing?

Joy

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is??

Saving her life is her priority.

She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married
for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the
whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of
sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her
sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated
version of your wife?

In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself.
And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human.

I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up
getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she
married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who
she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a
lot going on.

Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you
(and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you,
though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If
her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her
while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary
changes, etc.?

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her
arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out
your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't
right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants
you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she
"qualifies"?

I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to
point out the other side.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is??

Saving her life is her priority.

She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married
for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the
whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of
sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her
sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated
version of your wife?

In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself.
And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human.

I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up
getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she
married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who
she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a
lot going on.

Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you
(and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you,
though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If
her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her
while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary
changes, etc.?

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her
arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out
your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't
right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants
you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she
"qualifies"?

I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to
point out the other side.

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but
I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the
insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I
was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the
bills. SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but
I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum, they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the
insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I
was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT pricey I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the
bills. SO I was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the
sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife?

NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

I see..

I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this
divorce came along.

I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't.
Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife?

NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

I see..

I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this
divorce came along.

I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't.
Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:z4lgc.34803$_g4.3517757@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... > On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. > > I really didn't know that this group was around. > > I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live,
but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final.
You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,

I did.. I was dropped they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her
job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT
pricey > I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I
don't know > if she will continue to do so. > > As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I > was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public > assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to
stay and > pay the bills. SO last night she came home. > > This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does
the sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:z4lgc.34803$_g4.3517757@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:gnkgc.34266$_g4.3380742@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5Fjgc.25673$Yw5.2598@bignews4.bellsouth.net.. . "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... > On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. > > I really didn't know that this group was around. > > I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan. She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live,
but I think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final.
You might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,

I did.. I was dropped they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance. Do you have any documentation? YES.. I called the insurance co and I was dropped. I can't go back till open enrollment I was told Nov till the next one SomeHow she was able to drop me from the family plan she has on her
job.. I have had NO insurance since Nov 1. I was offered COBRA from my job when I was laid off.. @ $500 A BIT
pricey > I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I
don't know > if she will continue to do so. > > As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I > was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public > assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to
stay and > pay the bills. SO last night she came home. > > This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does
the sub stand for? He was Sub-ing for my lawyer who was sick.. A fill in.

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Mdlgc.34936$_g4.3546293@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:> If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her> biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife? NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.?

She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things really
didn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

She was still abusive, and tough to be with. We had our good days and very
bad days. The mood swings are all over the chart.

And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is having
a tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.

I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look for
understanding. Like posting to this group.

Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to love
one's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never did
anything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I am
NOT perfect. BUT I tried

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. I see.. I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this divorce came along. I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't. Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Mdlgc.34936$_g4.3546293@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:11:20 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:> If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her> biggest problem.WHAT is?? Saving her life is her priority. She'd been drinking for 26 years, and you and she have been married for 13. So you married her while she was drunk and she was drunk the whole marriage until 2 years ago. You describe her 2 years of sobriety as "hell," which--I'm only guessing--may not be good for her sobriety or recovery. Perhaps you prefer the "gentler," inebriated version of your wife? NO she was a raving crazy women when drunk.. Abusive times 10 In any event, she is learning, hard, in recovery, to focus on herself. And she needs to - to save her self. To be sober and human. I saw a number of people, in their first few years of recovery, end up getting divorced. This is unfortunate for you, or would be, but she married you as the drunk person she was. Now, she is figuring out who she is. Then, she is figuring out her marriage with you. She has a lot going on. Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.?

She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things really
didn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

She was still abusive, and tough to be with. We had our good days and very
bad days. The mood swings are all over the chart.

And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is having
a tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.

I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look for
understanding. Like posting to this group.

Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to love
one's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never did
anything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I am
NOT perfect. BUT I tried

Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. I see.. I was always there when she needed meetings, and in rehab. BUT until this divorce came along. I wish I could talk to her. OR have someone help in a dialog.. We can't. Could be one of the problems. LOTS of misunderstandings

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk.
Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought
with money.
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would
do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you
work the program, starting with Step 1.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk.
Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought
with money.
And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would
do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you
work the program, starting with Step 1.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:13:21 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.BUT maybe I truly don't understand..Explain

An alcoholic's life becomes emotionally "unmanageable" without the
booze. Booze helps the alcoholic to "feel" normal. The insanity
comes in believing that alcohol can do this. An alcoholic drinks to
try and preserve sanity, even though to other people this act seems
insane.

If your spouse is honestly not drinking, that's a good thing despite
the raging emotions. She needs to focus on recovery, and perhaps also
needs to look at diet, etc. Alcohol contains a lot of sugars that the
body gets accustomed to getting, so a drop in blood/sugar levels can
be part of the problem, even after years of not drinking and even if
the alcoholic is not diabetic.

There's more to it, such as a "need" to feel treated special in order
to feel average. But you're really not "her" problem. She just might
need a divorce and a few more drunken sessions in order to realise
this for herself.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:13:21 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.BUT maybe I truly don't understand..Explain

An alcoholic's life becomes emotionally "unmanageable" without the
booze. Booze helps the alcoholic to "feel" normal. The insanity
comes in believing that alcohol can do this. An alcoholic drinks to
try and preserve sanity, even though to other people this act seems
insane.

If your spouse is honestly not drinking, that's a good thing despite
the raging emotions. She needs to focus on recovery, and perhaps also
needs to look at diet, etc. Alcohol contains a lot of sugars that the
body gets accustomed to getting, so a drop in blood/sugar levels can
be part of the problem, even after years of not drinking and even if
the alcoholic is not diabetic.

There's more to it, such as a "need" to feel treated special in order
to feel average. But you're really not "her" problem. She just might
need a divorce and a few more drunken sessions in order to realise
this for herself.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:11:47 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things reallydidn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

Sounds about right. Isolation is very common among alcoholics. It
also happens to be a bad thing for a sober alcoholic to do too much.
But that can't be your problem.
And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is havinga tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look forunderstanding. Like posting to this group.Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to loveone's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never didanything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I amNOT perfect. BUT I tried

"Al-anons" are perhaps the most loving and loyal partners on the
planet. Every one of them deserves a gold medal. For everyone's
ultimate health they just need to learn how to take more care of
themselves and "let go" of other stuff they're trying to control. Not
easy, considering how childishly irresponsible the average drunk can
be, but necessary.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:11:47 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:
She has been STILL isolating herself thru out the recovery. Things reallydidn't change all that much from drinking to sober.

Sounds about right. Isolation is very common among alcoholics. It
also happens to be a bad thing for a sober alcoholic to do too much.
But that can't be your problem.
And I try to understand. I am a very understanding person.. OK she is havinga tough day. I ask if I can help her. What is wrong.I try to be a husband and a friend. I have been trying real hard. I look forunderstanding. Like posting to this group.Like telling me she hates me, doesn't love me anymore. Well you have to loveone's self to love another. So there is this self esteem issue. I never didanything to her EXCEPT try to be the best I could in that time frame. I amNOT perfect. BUT I tried

"Al-anons" are perhaps the most loving and loyal partners on the
planet. Every one of them deserves a gold medal. For everyone's
ultimate health they just need to learn how to take more care of
themselves and "let go" of other stuff they're trying to control. Not
easy, considering how childishly irresponsible the average drunk can
be, but necessary.

> "nobody" wrote:
If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in health.. Till death

The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third person
isn´t sure if
it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good
forum)
This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..

Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an
opportunist, rather
than a valuist.
They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them.
But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than
you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

> "nobody" wrote:
If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in health.. Till death

The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third person
isn´t sure if
it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good
forum)
This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..

Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an
opportunist, rather
than a valuist.
They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them.
But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than
you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com...
<snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through "hell",
(ie. self-harm,
abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not*
indicate
that someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite.

My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery. I
had
enough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought never
crossed my head.
My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance could
touch.

"Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message
news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com...
<snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side.

As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through "hell",
(ie. self-harm,
abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not*
indicate
that someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite.

My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery. I
had
enough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought never
crossed my head.
My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance could
touch.

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5td3s$utv$00$1@news.t-online.com... "nobody" wrote: If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and
in health.. Till death The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third
person isn´t sure if it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

VALUES Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good forum)

THANKS This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me.. Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an opportunist, rather than a valuist. They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them. But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5td3s$utv$00$1@news.t-online.com... "nobody" wrote: If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her? YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and
in health.. Till death The problem is, when said spouce is alcoholic/abusive, then the third
person isn´t sure if it´s your values speaking here or your co-dependency...

VALUES Have you visited alcoholism.about.com? (great chats, online meetings, good forum)

THANKS This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me.. Don´t bet on it. An unrecovered alcoholic is more often than not an opportunist, rather than a valuist. They´d never leave you, they need you, just as much as you need them. But if they would find someone who does a better job at enabling them than you, they´d drop you like a hot potato.

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:e617c0a80c8a478569aa79adaf329a27@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk. Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought with money.And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you work the program, starting with Step 1.

I am on step 4

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:e617c0a80c8a478569aa79adaf329a27@news.teranew s.com... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:05:57 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her?? Definitely. Some of the richest alcoholics on the planet die drunk. Billionaires. Recovery is an "inside job", it can't simply be bought with money.And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do?? You're in al-anon, so are already doing what I wish my father would do, and what perhaps I could benefit from doing. I would suggest you work the program, starting with Step 1.

I am on step 4

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Fykgc.57650$oj6.47667@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional..
A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the
problem.. I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to.. Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce. If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what
does the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her). Something I have a hard time understanding.. Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However, sometimes things just *don't* make sense. After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work
on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..> How is your daughter doing?

Poorly.. She is So scared that MOM will go away. Again. So she sticks to her
like glue.. She will not sleep alone. So my wife and daughter sleep in one
tiny twin bed, with the TV on all night. So won't take her to counstling.
The daugther needs some "step 1 work to" Joy

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Fykgc.57650$oj6.47667@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:frkgc.34316$_g4.3393025@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... SHE refuses to SEE or attend ANYONE or anything.. The Dry Drunk thinks that it will be better SHE will be happier without me. That is the problem IF I could get her to speak to a true professional..
A real DR. and maybe we could turn this around.. BUT there is the
problem.. I get a NO.. I won't and I don't want to.. Then I think that you really do have to consider how to handle a divorce. If she won't work on the marriage, she won't - and there really isn't any way that you can make her. I understand that you are still hoping to turn things around and save the marriage, and that is very understandable - but it would be unwise to let that hope keep you from planning how to make things work out as well as possible for you and your daughter in the event of an actual divorce. It sounds like you've talked to a lawyer - what
does the lawyer say about things like child custody and alimony? (If she's working and you aren't, perhaps you can get spousal support from her). Something I have a hard time understanding.. Unfortunately, you may never understand. When families break up, a lot of people burn a lot of energy trying to make sense of things. However, sometimes things just *don't* make sense. After 16 years and a child.. Working on the marriage should be a given.. She has had 2 years to work
on her. WELL I know it could be NOT enought.. BUT US is part of this..> How is your daughter doing?

Poorly.. She is So scared that MOM will go away. Again. So she sticks to her
like glue.. She will not sleep alone. So my wife and daughter sleep in one
tiny twin bed, with the TV on all night. So won't take her to counstling.
The daugther needs some "step 1 work to" Joy

I wish a person like you could talk some sense into her.

Seems like you have it together.

BUT would she listen??

Don't know.

I have little to NO faith in the AA people she hangs with.

They seem to be people that add to the problem(S). Not help.

Her sponsor is a women with 2 failed marriages.. ONE husband killed himself,
the other just walked away from her. And this women has a daughter that is
raging drug and alcohol abuser.

There was a women that seem to have together family, great job, and sober.
SHE won't talk to that lady.. SHE would be to tough on me MY wife stated. So
it seems like the easy way for her.

She was told from the rehab hospital to seek a DR for the cutting, and what
ever. And that never happened.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5te47$6sq$05$1@news.t-online.com... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... <snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through
"hell", (ie. self-harm, abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not* indicate that someone is going through recovery. Actually, the opposite. My spouce, during the first years, was extremely unhelpful to my recovery.
I had enough external reasons to act like this mans wife. The thought never crossed my head. My recovery came from an unshakable place, that no circumstance could touch.

I wish a person like you could talk some sense into her.

Seems like you have it together.

BUT would she listen??

Don't know.

I have little to NO faith in the AA people she hangs with.

They seem to be people that add to the problem(S). Not help.

Her sponsor is a women with 2 failed marriages.. ONE husband killed himself,
the other just walked away from her. And this women has a daughter that is
raging drug and alcohol abuser.

There was a women that seem to have together family, great job, and sober.
SHE won't talk to that lady.. SHE would be to tough on me MY wife stated. So
it seems like the easy way for her.

She was told from the rehab hospital to seek a DR for the cutting, and what
ever. And that never happened.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5te47$6sq$05$1@news.t-online.com... "Jennifer" <jennifer@email.com> wrote in message news:617dcfe1571e4ba79bbb05dded46a59a@news.teranew s.com... <snip> Your focus, naturally, is on you. In recovery, you can focus on you (and she on her) while working on the marriage. My question to you, though: do you have the respect for her process that she needs? If her recovery has been hell for you, how much of that is disliking her while she's sober or not responding to her withdrawal, necessary changes, etc.? Your wife is going through hell (it even shows in the scratches on her arms, right?) I think, have a little more empathy. If it turns out your marriage was one of _unhealthy_ common ground, perhaps it wasn't right for either of you. Listen in Alanon, or ask her if she wants you to go to one of her meetings with her? Perhaps one night when she "qualifies"? I am not underestimating your pain at all. Truly. But I did want to point out the other side. As a former alcoholic, I would like to point out, that going through
"hell", (ie. self-harm, abusing others and generaly acting like a self-serving *****,) does *not* indicate that someone is g