Ok, I'm going to try to condense this as much as possible.

My boyfriend pays child support for 4 of his 7 children. (the other three are not applicable due to age, and custody). He pays $90 per week to one mother who has custody of 2 of the children, $80 per week to another who has custody of one child and $60 per week to me for one of the three children that we have together. (the support order to me was enforced at a time that we were not together and prior to having our twins who were born after we started living together) . So, in all he has a total of $230 withheld each week to pay child support (he requested to the court that the amount be withheld and paid directly to the child support offices). Considering the fact that he has no education beyond high school and no substantial expertise in any occupational function, you can imagine what his checks look like after child support is deducted!

Nevertheless, when he was working we made things work. However, due to an unfortunate and somewhat irrisponsible choice on his behalf he lost his last job, which was a decent job for someone with no further education. Unfortunately, this is a situation which can not be undone, so the only thing to do is to seek employment before legal action is taken against him. Luckily, his exes are understanding of the situation, but the threat of legal action still looms! He has been unemployed now since April 2006. He continuously puts in applications in an attempt to find something that will pay enough to meet his child support obligations. Unfortunately, he can't get out too much, because since I am the only one supporting a family of 6 (myself, him, and 4 kids altogether) we just can't afford the gas cost and we don't live near a bus line. So, in addition to the applications he has submitted, I e-mail and fax resume's on a daily basis to employers who have posted jobs on various sites such as Career Builder and Monster.com. Unfortunately, there has been little response, none leading to employment. In the meantime, Unemployment has been initially declined, but he has appealed the decision.

Anyway, I am encouraging him to return to school, such as a trade school so that he can gain a skill and find stable employment. I have told him that he could probably find a part time job such as in a grocery store or restaurant environment so that he can still pay support while attending school. However, we all know that the average job in those environments even full time would not meet his current support obligation. Also, it is important to let you know, that there was a time years ago (before I met him) that he accumulated back support, some of which is his own fault, which he assumes responsibilty for. However, some of it was accrued at a time that his ex wife had filed for legal separation and then they moved back in together but she continued to collect AFDC claiming that she was still living alone. That's an entirely different story that is not really a big deal, he is not pressing that issue. Regardless, he has an obligation to pay and even with full time employment at $12 per hour if he's lucky is very difficult to attain.
So, what if he does want to go back to school? What will the law allow when it comes to his child support obligation. I think that its pretty sad that a custodial parent is encouraged to return to school to secure a better future and the non-custodial parent may be even liable for child care expenses incurred while the custodial parent is in school, but the non-custodial parent doesn't have that flexibility due to his/her support obligation. The only way he can make a better future for himself and his children is to find a stable and financially secure occupation. He is already 42 years old and has time working against him. He would really love to do this, but is afraid that he will go to jail if his support obligation isn't fully met. What would you suggest?

Thank you,

MK in Indiana

Ok, I'm going to try to condense this as much as possible.

My boyfriend pays child support for 4 of his 7 children. (the other three are not applicable due to age, and custody). He pays $90 per week to one mother who has custody of 2 of the children, $80 per week to another who has custody of one child and $60 per week to me for one of the three children that we have together. (the support order to me was enforced at a time that we were not together and prior to having our twins who were born after we started living together) . So, in all he has a total of $230 withheld each week to pay child support (he requested to the court that the amount be withheld and paid directly to the child support offices). Considering the fact that he has no education beyond high school and no substantial expertise in any occupational function, you can imagine what his checks look like after child support is deducted!

Nevertheless, when he was working we made things work. However, due to an unfortunate and somewhat irrisponsible choice on his behalf he lost his last job, which was a decent job for someone with no further education. Unfortunately, this is a situation which can not be undone, so the only thing to do is to seek employment before legal action is taken against him. Luckily, his exes are understanding of the situation, but the threat of legal action still looms! He has been unemployed now since April 2006. He continuously puts in applications in an attempt to find something that will pay enough to meet his child support obligations. Unfortunately, he can't get out too much, because since I am the only one supporting a family of 6 (myself, him, and 4 kids altogether) we just can't afford the gas cost and we don't live near a bus line. So, in addition to the applications he has submitted, I e-mail and fax resume's on a daily basis to employers who have posted jobs on various sites such as Career Builder and Monster.com. Unfortunately, there has been little response, none leading to employment. In the meantime, Unemployment has been initially declined, but he has appealed the decision.

Anyway, I am encouraging him to return to school, such as a trade school so that he can gain a skill and find stable employment. I have told him that he could probably find a part time job such as in a grocery store or restaurant environment so that he can still pay support while attending school. However, we all know that the average job in those environments even full time would not meet his current support obligation. Also, it is important to let you know, that there was a time years ago (before I met him) that he accumulated back support, some of which is his own fault, which he assumes responsibilty for. However, some of it was accrued at a time that his ex wife had filed for legal separation and then they moved back in together but she continued to collect AFDC claiming that she was still living alone. That's an entirely different story that is not really a big deal, he is not pressing that issue. Regardless, he has an obligation to pay and even with full time employment at $12 per hour if he's lucky is very difficult to attain.
So, what if he does want to go back to school? What will the law allow when it comes to his child support obligation. I think that its pretty sad that a custodial parent is encouraged to return to school to secure a better future and the non-custodial parent may be even liable for child care expenses incurred while the custodial parent is in school, but the non-custodial parent doesn't have that flexibility due to his/her support obligation. The only way he can make a better future for himself and his children is to find a stable and financially secure occupation. He is already 42 years old and has time working against him. He would really love to do this, but is afraid that he will go to jail if his support obligation isn't fully met. What would you suggest?

Thank you,

MK in Indiana
Basically I personally understand and agree that going to school would make alot of sense. HOWEVER- the LAWs say differently.

Your BF has legal obligations that have to be met, no matter what. IF he had lost a good paying job for reasons that he had NO CONTROL of- such as lay-off, injury, etc. he could have file to modify the orders. Unfortunately he cannot file because at this point the court will not be able to modify because the decresed income will be considered as voluntary. One or two years from now he MIGHT be able to modify, but he'll have to prove that whatever he's earned in the last year or two is the MAX that he can earn.

For the time being he needs to get 2 jobs and either attend school very partime, or just forget about school until his CS obligations are done.

Basically I personally understand and agree that going to school would make alot of sense. HOWEVER- the LAWs say differently.

Your BF has legal obligations that have to be met, no matter what. IF he had lost a good paying job for reasons that he had NO CONTROL of- such as lay-off, injury, etc. he could have file to modify the orders. Unfortunately he cannot file because at this point the court will not be able to modify because the decresed income will be considered as voluntary. One or two years from now he MIGHT be able to modify, but he'll have to prove that whatever he's earned in the last year or two is the MAX that he can earn.

For the time being he needs to get 2 jobs and either attend school very partime, or just forget about school until his CS obligations are done.


I totally agree- while personally I support higher education whenever possible- the fact remains that your boyfriend has children to support- and he continued to have yet even more children when it was a stuggle to support the one he already had- education is a luxury- one at this it appears your boyfriend cannot afford.....he made the choice to continue having children now, as hard as it may seems he needs to face the consequences of those choices- maybe 2 jobs is the way to go....then he can look at obtaining credits either by doing one class per semester or possibly on line

First off - one poster commented that education is a luxury - I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS COMMENT. In todays economy, education is a necessity. Education won't garauntee employment, but certainly gives one SOME leverage in obtaining higher paying employment.

Now, not knowing exactly what the background is of the person you speak of, I would like to suggest a possibility.

Perhaps he may try to persue employment in one of the trades as an apprentice. With this he can work (for pay) and meet his obligations while obtaining the skills and work experience to advance to a journeyman level. And then ultimately if the desire is there, advance to a masters or even higher level. Most of the TRADES (plumbing, electrical, mechanical -HVAC, etc.) contractors are always looking for reliable individuals to perform menial tasks and to work as helpers. In return for his labor he would 1) meet his support obligations 2) obtain a tangible work skill 3) create an enviroment whereby there is a realistic possibility for advancement and financial security 4) AVOID BEING A VICTIM OF DEBT. DEBT WHICH W I L L CARRY ON TO THE VERY CHILDREN HE IS OBLIGATED TO INDEBT HIMSELF TO PROVIDE FOR

It doesn't really matter what you agree or disagree with. Education is a luxury. A luxury that many cannot afford (but that is a discussion for another forum). Tell, me...how would this father pay to attend school? His children's (geez, that's alot of kids) needs come before his wish for an education. He had steady employment. He lost it because of whatever he did. Your idea of an apprenticeship is a good one, but would it actually pay enough to support his obligations?

In the midwest anyhow, apprentices usually start off at about $9-10 an hour. I would assume that in other areas, east and west, they would pay a little more. The programs are pretty good if you can get into one, and as you advance through the 'levels' of training and schooling, you get pay increases that coordinate with that level. I used to work for a Plumbing Union Benefits office. Sounds to me like it is at least something to look into. Journeymen usually get paid over $18.00 an hour depending on your geographics of course. And with that many kids, (WOW! I would be tied up somewhere in white), it is probably the only way that he will be able to make decent money. Traditional schooling is probably not a realistic option at this time. At least this way he works, gets schooling, and paid all at the same time. Good luck and God bless your sanity..........

First off - one poster commented that education is a luxury - I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THIS COMMENT. In todays economy, education is a necessity. Education won't garauntee employment, but certainly gives one SOME leverage in obtaining higher paying employment.

Now, not knowing exactly what the background is of the person you speak of, I would like to suggest a possibility.

Perhaps he may try to persue employment in one of the trades as an apprentice. With this he can work (for pay) and meet his obligations while obtaining the skills and work experience to advance to a journeyman level. And then ultimately if the desire is there, advance to a masters or even higher level. Most of the TRADES (plumbing, electrical, mechanical -HVAC, etc.) contractors are always looking for reliable individuals to perform menial tasks and to work as helpers. In return for his labor he would 1) meet his support obligations 2) obtain a tangible work skill 3) create an enviroment whereby there is a realistic possibility for advancement and financial security 4) AVOID BEING A VICTIM OF DEBT. DEBT WHICH W I L L CARRY ON TO THE VERY CHILDREN HE IS OBLIGATED TO INDEBT HIMSELF TO PROVIDE FOR

I agree a trade might be a good way to go- but whatever he did at his last job and the secrecy about that leads me to believe that it will affect his ability to get any type of significant work because I am guessing integrity issues are at the root of it.

It doesn't really matter what you agree or disagree with. Education is a luxury. A luxury that many cannot afford (but that is a discussion for another forum). Tell, me...how would this father pay to attend school? His children's (geez, that's alot of kids) needs come before his wish for an education. He had steady employment. He lost it because of whatever he did. Your idea of an apprenticeship is a good one, but would it actually pay enough to support his obligations?


LUXURY OR NECESSARY....DOES NOT REALLY MATTER....NOT EVEN WORTH A LONG DRAWN OUT DEBATE OVER THIS MATTER. (have read several other posts from you on this site)....THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE....FACT IS, IF HE HAS KIDS AND IS "OBLIGATED" TO SUPPORT THEM....WHY NOT OBTAIN AN EDUCATION (does not mean go to school full time and obtain a degree from a university) IF HE CAN WORK "FULLTIME" IN THE PROCESS....EDUCATION MEANING LEARNING A TRADE....THIS EDUCATION MAY EVEN ALLOW HIM TO PROVIDE THE CS AS WELL AS MAINTAIN SOME LEVEL OF DIGNITY.....GUESS WHO BENEFITS, "THE KIDS" AND DAD TOO....AS I READ YOUR POSTS IT SEEMS AS IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF BAGGAGE AND YOU RESPOND NEGATIVELY BY VENTING ON THIS SITE.....NOT GOOD AT ALL BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHO CARES....I HOPE THIS MAN DOES FIND EMPLOYMENT THAT AWARDS HIM MONETARILY BASED UPON HIS ABILITY TO INCREASE HIS KNOWLEDGE.....REGARDLESS OF MY OPINION AND YOURS, IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING ANY TYPE OF EMPLOYMENT....(allow me to qutoe a famous nobody)...."IT BEATS A BLANK"

LUXURY OR NECESSARY....DOES NOT REALLY MATTER....NOT EVEN WORTH A LONG DRAWN OUT DEBATE OVER THIS MATTER. (have read several other posts from you on this site)....THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE....FACT IS, IF HE HAS KIDS AND IS "OBLIGATED" TO SUPPORT THEM....WHY NOT OBTAIN AN EDUCATION (does not mean go to school full time and obtain a degree from a university) IF HE CAN WORK "FULLTIME" IN THE PROCESS....EDUCATION MEANING LEARNING A TRADE....THIS EDUCATION MAY EVEN ALLOW HIM TO PROVIDE THE CS AS WELL AS MAINTAIN SOME LEVEL OF DIGNITY.....GUESS WHO BENEFITS, "THE KIDS" AND DAD TOO....AS I READ YOUR POSTS IT SEEMS AS IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF BAGGAGE AND YOU RESPOND NEGATIVELY BY VENTING ON THIS SITE.....NOT GOOD AT ALL BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHO CARES....I HOPE THIS MAN DOES FIND EMPLOYMENT THAT AWARDS HIM MONETARILY BASED UPON HIS ABILITY TO INCREASE HIS KNOWLEDGE.....REGARDLESS OF MY OPINION AND YOURS, IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING ANY TYPE OF EMPLOYMENT....(allow me to qutoe a famous nobody)...."IT BEATS A BLANK"


if he can do both- more power to him! what the heck are you so angry about- this dad has responsibilities- a lot of them- the job needs to come first, then he can see how he can fit school in there

LUXURY OR NECESSARY....DOES NOT REALLY MATTER....NOT EVEN WORTH A LONG DRAWN OUT DEBATE OVER THIS MATTER. (have read several other posts from you on this site)....THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE....FACT IS, IF HE HAS KIDS AND IS "OBLIGATED" TO SUPPORT THEM....WHY NOT OBTAIN AN EDUCATION (does not mean go to school full time and obtain a degree from a university) IF HE CAN WORK "FULLTIME" IN THE PROCESS....EDUCATION MEANING LEARNING A TRADE....THIS EDUCATION MAY EVEN ALLOW HIM TO PROVIDE THE CS AS WELL AS MAINTAIN SOME LEVEL OF DIGNITY.....GUESS WHO BENEFITS, "THE KIDS" AND DAD TOO....AS I READ YOUR POSTS IT SEEMS AS IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF BAGGAGE AND YOU RESPOND NEGATIVELY BY VENTING ON THIS SITE.....NOT GOOD AT ALL BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHO CARES....I HOPE THIS MAN DOES FIND EMPLOYMENT THAT AWARDS HIM MONETARILY BASED UPON HIS ABILITY TO INCREASE HIS KNOWLEDGE.....REGARDLESS OF MY OPINION AND YOURS, IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING ANY TYPE OF EMPLOYMENT....(allow me to qutoe a famous nobody)...."IT BEATS A BLANK"
Well, if you read alot of my threads, you will notice that I only respond "negatively" to people who would rather complain about a situation and disagree about the fairness than deal with what is and work within the confines of the law to do whatever they can to get to a workable solution. Maybe if you slow down and calm down long enough to read my response to you, you will see that I did NOT disagree with you. I said that the apprentice ship sounded like a good idea and I asked a legitmate question as to IF HE COULD EARN ENOUGH IN AN APPRENTICESHIP TO SUPPORT HIS LEGAL OBLIGATIONS. Shopgirl answered that question for me. You could have answered, yourself, but I suspect you were just waiting to have a platform to launch your "attack".

Frankly, the only negativity I have seen on this thread is from you ranting about how the "system" is unjust and unfair to men. Of course, you completely glossed over the fact that he lost his job due to his own actions (which very well may limit his future employment opportunites) and that he chose to continue to have ALOT of kids when he couldn't support the others.

And, no, I don't have a lot of baggage. I'm the SOLE custodial parent of my oldest daughter. I don't worry too much about his failure to pay ordered child support. I don't need it and it is not worth the fight to me. Now, when he committed tax fraud, that was a different story. You bet I went after his lazy butt. But, that has been resolved in my favor, so no big loss. But others DO need it to support their kids. I don't make the laws. I just cite them for people that need the information. And guess what? The laws apply to you, too, BeatDownDad. No amount of soapbox preaching will change that.

It doesn't really matter what you agree or disagree with. Education is a luxury. A luxury that many cannot afford (but that is a discussion for another forum). Tell, me...how would this father pay to attend school? His children's (geez, that's alot of kids) needs come before his wish for an education. He had steady employment. He lost it because of whatever he did. Your idea of an apprenticeship is a good one, but would it actually pay enough to support his obligations?

If education is a luxury, then why do they try to make NCP's pay for their childrens college education?

There is no NCP that is required to pay for all college expenses. Usually it is split, 50% NCP, 25% child, 25% CP. I would assume this varies based on income because once the child enters college, the child support gets switched out for the college expenses. Providing they are current in payment. And in today's world, who wouldn't want to help their child get a college degree. There are no jobs without one. None that pay much above poverty level anyhow. If I don't know anything, I do know that in today's world, and in our children's world to come, that a degree is almost a necessity. And now days a Master's is the new Bachelor. But the parents are only responsible for paying for it until the child completes it, or turns 24. Whichever comes first. At least in Iowa.

If education is a luxury, then why do they try to make NCP's pay for their childrens college education?


let's just stick to the question at hand- there are other forums available to debate the properness of laws

If education is a luxury, then why do they try to make NCP's pay for their childrens college education?

As a matter of fact, only 3 states and the District of Columbia continue CS to age 21, regardless of school. Only 2 states require cs until the age of 23 unless the child does not go to college, (in which case the cutoff is 18.) Of course, one of those states is Mass which allows for emancipation of CS at 18, unless the kid is living at home, in which case it is 21. 2 states require child support until the age of 19, regardless of education, and 1 state requires CS until age 19 if the kid is in college. None of the child support is actually ever ordered to "pay for a college education".

Once a person chooses to have children (especially way too many to support) everything outside of basic necessities becomes a luxury until after the children are provided for.

www.deltabravo.net (http://www.deltabravo.net)

Now, let's all move on.

let's just stick to the question at hand- there are other forums available to debate the properness of laws
Please send me the links to these forums and I will be happy to debate the properness of laws there ;-)