I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out
wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown...

Kass

Rules for a Happy Marriage


Never both be angry at the same time.
Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.
If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.
If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.
Never bring up mistakes of the past.
Neglect the whole world rather than each other.
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your
life's partner.
When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for
forgiveness.
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does
the most talking.

Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown...

Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...)
Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time.

Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when
your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As
I note below, a lot of things are contagious.
2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.

Just remember that when one wins, both lose.
4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past.

For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem
to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to
#1, above.

That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's
just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their
resentments are not always freshly at hand.
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.

How does one do this when it usually seems better to
let sleeping dogs lie?

7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a
business trip or hospital stay.
8. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. 9. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.

This is usually a good idea in the workplace, too,
but realize that it's usually best to have a solution
in hand as well there.

Within a marriage you don't need the solution itself,
just the willingness to use consensus with your
partner in working out a satisfactory solution.
10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

I't add, as a corollary:

10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are
nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right,
either.

So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen
mood full of resentment does not help.

And:

11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is
extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately,
not as contagious, so you have to work harder at
it. Enthusiasm is key.


I *was* initially going to make comments that were more
light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown...

Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...)
Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time.

Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when
your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As
I note below, a lot of things are contagious.
2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.

Just remember that when one wins, both lose.
4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past.

For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem
to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to
#1, above.

That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's
just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their
resentments are not always freshly at hand.
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.

How does one do this when it usually seems better to
let sleeping dogs lie?

7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a
business trip or hospital stay.
8. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. 9. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.

This is usually a good idea in the workplace, too,
but realize that it's usually best to have a solution
in hand as well there.

Within a marriage you don't need the solution itself,
just the willingness to use consensus with your
partner in working out a satisfactory solution.
10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

I't add, as a corollary:

10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are
nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right,
either.

So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen
mood full of resentment does not help.

And:

11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is
extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately,
not as contagious, so you have to work harder at
it. Enthusiasm is key.


I *was* initially going to make comments that were more
light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

You forgot the two most important rules.
1. NEVER GET MARRIED
2. If you are already married, GET A DIVORCE



On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:13:43 GMT, "Whisper"
<whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning outwedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown...KassRules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time.Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.Never bring up mistakes of the past.Neglect the whole world rather than each other.Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to yourlife's partner.When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness.It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who doesthe most talking.

You forgot the two most important rules.
1. NEVER GET MARRIED
2. If you are already married, GET A DIVORCE



On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:13:43 GMT, "Whisper"
<whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning outwedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown...KassRules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time.Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.Never bring up mistakes of the past.Neglect the whole world rather than each other.Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to yourlife's partner.When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness.It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who doesthe most talking.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:36:39 GMT, cupasoup@softhome.net (Jack C
Lipton) wrote:
7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay.

Or VD

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:36:39 GMT, cupasoup@softhome.net (Jack C
Lipton) wrote:
7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay.

Or VD

"Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc65dj4.1l7.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...) Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time. Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As I note below, a lot of things are contagious. 2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Just remember that when one wins, both lose. 4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past. For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to #1, above. That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their resentments are not always freshly at hand.

I don't know if that is fair. I'm a woman and I don't bring up mistakes of
the past, and I hate it when people do that. My old roommate in college did
this kind of **** all the time...with me, with her boyfriend, with her other
friends.
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. How does one do this when it usually seems better to let sleeping dogs lie?

Maybe this is related to number 5 above. If you never talk about stuff and
get it out in the open, it's easier to dwell on it internally until one day
you just explode from keeping it all in for so long. Maybe that's what's
going on when it seems to you like women are "living in the past..." They're
not living in the past...they never got to talk about their greivances in
the first place so those greivances were left to fester.

7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay.

Or because your husband snores and you really need a good night's sleep ;)

<snip> 10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

I don't see why this is necessarily true.
I't add, as a corollary: 10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right, either.

If you're angry you should express that. Feelins aren't right or wrong. They
just are.
So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen mood full of resentment does not help.

Yeah but keeping your mouth shut probably led to the sullen mood of
resentment.

And: 11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately, not as contagious, so you have to work harder at it. Enthusiasm is key. I *was* initially going to make comments that were more light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots.

Cheryl

"Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc65dj4.1l7.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...) Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time. Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As I note below, a lot of things are contagious. 2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Just remember that when one wins, both lose. 4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past. For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to #1, above. That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their resentments are not always freshly at hand.

I don't know if that is fair. I'm a woman and I don't bring up mistakes of
the past, and I hate it when people do that. My old roommate in college did
this kind of **** all the time...with me, with her boyfriend, with her other
friends.
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. How does one do this when it usually seems better to let sleeping dogs lie?

Maybe this is related to number 5 above. If you never talk about stuff and
get it out in the open, it's easier to dwell on it internally until one day
you just explode from keeping it all in for so long. Maybe that's what's
going on when it seems to you like women are "living in the past..." They're
not living in the past...they never got to talk about their greivances in
the first place so those greivances were left to fester.

7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay.

Or because your husband snores and you really need a good night's sleep ;)

<snip> 10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

I don't see why this is necessarily true.
I't add, as a corollary: 10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right, either.

If you're angry you should express that. Feelins aren't right or wrong. They
just are.
So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen mood full of resentment does not help.

Yeah but keeping your mouth shut probably led to the sullen mood of
resentment.

And: 11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately, not as contagious, so you have to work harder at it. Enthusiasm is key. I *was* initially going to make comments that were more light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots.

Cheryl

HI "Whisper"

I could not have said it better - very good indeed!
Rules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time.Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.Never bring up mistakes of the past.Neglect the whole world rather than each other.Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to yourlife's partner.When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness.It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who doesthe most talking.

--
Phil :)

HI "Whisper"

I could not have said it better - very good indeed!
Rules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time.Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.Never bring up mistakes of the past.Neglect the whole world rather than each other.Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to yourlife's partner.When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness.It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who doesthe most talking.

--
Phil :)

"Whisper" <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote in message news:<X%s8c.1774$WC3.16744@ord-read.news.verio.net>... I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.



I like:

"If you must argue, do so while completely naked, sitting on the bed
facing each other, and holding hands."

jen

"Whisper" <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote in message news:<X%s8c.1774$WC3.16744@ord-read.news.verio.net>... I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.



I like:

"If you must argue, do so while completely naked, sitting on the bed
facing each other, and holding hands."

jen

shinypenny wrote: "If you must argue, do so while completely naked, sitting on the bed facing each other, and holding hands."

You, m'dear, are a complete optimist. I like
the sentiment, though. I'll let you know how
she reacts when I propose it.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

shinypenny wrote: "If you must argue, do so while completely naked, sitting on the bed facing each other, and holding hands."

You, m'dear, are a complete optimist. I like
the sentiment, though. I'll let you know how
she reacts when I propose it.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

Whisper <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage

These aren't bad, actually. Usually I find these sorts of things far to
corny and inrealistic.
Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something
I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of
feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think
fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness,
not more.

Whisper <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage

These aren't bad, actually. Usually I find these sorts of things far to
corny and inrealistic.
Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.

A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something
I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of
feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think
fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness,
not more.

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more.

Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just by
seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how".

I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

Ted

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more.

Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just by
seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how".

I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

Ted

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v6qe$2ars74$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just
by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how". I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

Probably.

I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60
Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to
couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples to
talk about some of their bigger marital issues.

He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages
would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was
that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the other.
Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of
your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather interesting.

Cheryl

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v6qe$2ars74$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just
by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how". I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

Probably.

I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60
Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to
couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples to
talk about some of their bigger marital issues.

He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages
would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was
that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the other.
Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of
your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather interesting.

Cheryl

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous
of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather interesting.

That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman. I can't
imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" -- the
rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say
something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other. Did
they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was
understood to be expressing contempt? (Now, whether I might actually *feel*
contempuous of her at some moment -- that's a different question. I
suspect I have at times, and I know some here have read some of what I've
written as having done so. But I'd never express it to her.)

Ted

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous
of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather interesting.

That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman. I can't
imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" -- the
rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say
something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other. Did
they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was
understood to be expressing contempt? (Now, whether I might actually *feel*
contempuous of her at some moment -- that's a different question. I
suspect I have at times, and I know some here have read some of what I've
written as having done so. But I'd never express it to her.)

Ted

Emma Anne wrote: Whisper wrote: Rules for a Happy Marriage These aren't bad, actually. Usually I find these sorts of things far to corny and inrealistic.

Of course they're corny and idealistic; there are certain
things we want to aspire to, even if we'll never completely
arrive there!

We're all "works in progress", after all, completion only
found with the final shovelful delivered to our gravesite.
Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.

Actually, I just realized, this one little rule
needs some expansion; "... and if you're sure
you are completely in the right, check again."
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more.

Actually, I suspect "low level" 'fighting' being
more like two dogs barking now and again may be
a way to reduce stress between since frustrations
and feeling get aired rather than becoming a
festering wound, never to see light.

The idea that I've gotten from one couple was that
they "barked" so that they wouldn't "bite".

Now, mind you, this is not talking about the way
people may "bark" out orders or insults, but more
a matter of airing differences in a way that they
get both seen... and, if possible, resolved.

Some more rules:

* Never argue with your partner if they're holding
a chainsaw.

* Don't write down your resentments since they can
always use the list against you in a divorce.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

Emma Anne wrote: Whisper wrote: Rules for a Happy Marriage These aren't bad, actually. Usually I find these sorts of things far to corny and inrealistic.

Of course they're corny and idealistic; there are certain
things we want to aspire to, even if we'll never completely
arrive there!

We're all "works in progress", after all, completion only
found with the final shovelful delivered to our gravesite.
Never both be angry at the same time. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Never bring up mistakes of the past. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.

Actually, I just realized, this one little rule
needs some expansion; "... and if you're sure
you are completely in the right, check again."
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more.

Actually, I suspect "low level" 'fighting' being
more like two dogs barking now and again may be
a way to reduce stress between since frustrations
and feeling get aired rather than becoming a
festering wound, never to see light.

The idea that I've gotten from one couple was that
they "barked" so that they wouldn't "bite".

Now, mind you, this is not talking about the way
people may "bark" out orders or insults, but more
a matter of airing differences in a way that they
get both seen... and, if possible, resolved.

Some more rules:

* Never argue with your partner if they're holding
a chainsaw.

* Don't write down your resentments since they can
always use the list against you in a divorce.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage Never both be angry at the same time.
Not always possible
Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.
Yes
If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.
Definitely not always possible!
If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.
Yes
Never bring up mistakes of the past.
unless they are unresolved
Neglect the whole world rather than each other.
Yes
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.
No, some arguments can't be solved in a few hours. They can be shelved
before bedtime, though.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner.
More days than not is fine, too

When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.
Yes
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.
No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse

Tai

Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Kass Rules for a Happy Marriage Never both be angry at the same time.
Not always possible
Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.
Yes
If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate.
Definitely not always possible!
If you have to criticize, do it lovingly.
Yes
Never bring up mistakes of the past.
unless they are unresolved
Neglect the whole world rather than each other.
Yes
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.
No, some arguments can't be solved in a few hours. They can be shelved
before bedtime, though.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner.
More days than not is fine, too

When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness.
Yes
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking.
No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse

Tai

Emma Anne wrote:
A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting.**This*is*something I've changed my opinion on over the years.**I*do*think*frank*airings*of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness.**Less*closeness, not more.

Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I
get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The
same for him. Weknow to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I
get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible

Emma Anne wrote:
A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting.**This*is*something I've changed my opinion on over the years.**I*do*think*frank*airings*of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness.**Less*closeness, not more.

Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I
get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The
same for him. Weknow to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I
get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible

Tai wrote:
Whisper wrote:I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I wereplanning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. authorunknown...KassRules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time. Not always possible

If it's heavy duty angry ONE has to be sensible.....two crazy angers
make a helluva mess......
Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. Yes

Yes, but not always easy....... :)
If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Definitely not always possible!

Shouldn't be a "win" alot of times......often requires compromise.....
If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Yes

Agreed
Never bring up mistakes of the past. unless they are unresolved

Which is interesting....if it becomes a hot button again why weren't
they resolved the first time? <This is not against Tai at all, more of a
reflection on my marriage>

Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Yes
Hmmm...to a point....unless one partner has a tendency to neglect the
world to a fault.....what if the "world" involves your children?
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. No, some arguments can't be solved in a few hours. They can be shelved before bedtime, though.

Agreed.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing toyour life's partner. More days than not is fine, too

But striving for once a day is good. :)When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness. Yes
Agreed.
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the onewho does the most talking. No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse

Agreed....the one throwing things around may be the one in the wrong. :)
Tai

Tai wrote:
Whisper wrote:I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I wereplanning out wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. authorunknown...KassRules for a Happy MarriageNever both be angry at the same time. Not always possible

If it's heavy duty angry ONE has to be sensible.....two crazy angers
make a helluva mess......
Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. Yes

Yes, but not always easy....... :)
If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Definitely not always possible!

Shouldn't be a "win" alot of times......often requires compromise.....
If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. Yes

Agreed
Never bring up mistakes of the past. unless they are unresolved

Which is interesting....if it becomes a hot button again why weren't
they resolved the first time? <This is not against Tai at all, more of a
reflection on my marriage>

Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Yes
Hmmm...to a point....unless one partner has a tendency to neglect the
world to a fault.....what if the "world" involves your children?
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. No, some arguments can't be solved in a few hours. They can be shelved before bedtime, though.

Agreed.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing toyour life's partner. More days than not is fine, too

But striving for once a day is good. :)When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask forforgiveness. Yes
Agreed.
It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the onewho does the most talking. No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse

Agreed....the one throwing things around may be the one in the wrong. :)
Tai

Amy D wrote: Tai wrote: Never both be angry at the same time. Not always possible If it's heavy duty angry ONE has to be sensible.....two crazy angers make a helluva mess......

True. I wasn't thinking of the knives, axes and shotgun kinds of anger. :)

Never bring up mistakes of the past. unless they are unresolved Which is interesting....if it becomes a hot button again why weren't they resolved the first time? <This is not against Tai at all, more of a reflection on my marriage>

I think the issues any of us are going to be angriest about are the ones
that come up over and over again and either aren't resolved or won't stay
resolved.
Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Yes Hmmm...to a point....unless one partner has a tendency to neglect the world to a fault.....what if the "world" involves your children?

Unless you think of looking after your children as part of nurturing your
relationship with your spouse. I take you point, though, Amy. Sometimes the
health of the relationship may have to become secondary to the needs of the
child(ren) but with luck and good management the parents can find a balance
between the two.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. More days than not is fine, too But striving for once a day is good. :)

Agreed. As long as it isn't at 7:40pm exactly each day.... ;)

It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse Agreed....the one throwing things around may be the one in the wrong. :)

lol

Tai

Amy D wrote: Tai wrote: Never both be angry at the same time. Not always possible If it's heavy duty angry ONE has to be sensible.....two crazy angers make a helluva mess......

True. I wasn't thinking of the knives, axes and shotgun kinds of anger. :)

Never bring up mistakes of the past. unless they are unresolved Which is interesting....if it becomes a hot button again why weren't they resolved the first time? <This is not against Tai at all, more of a reflection on my marriage>

I think the issues any of us are going to be angriest about are the ones
that come up over and over again and either aren't resolved or won't stay
resolved.
Neglect the whole world rather than each other. Yes Hmmm...to a point....unless one partner has a tendency to neglect the world to a fault.....what if the "world" involves your children?

Unless you think of looking after your children as part of nurturing your
relationship with your spouse. I take you point, though, Amy. Sometimes the
health of the relationship may have to become secondary to the needs of the
child(ren) but with luck and good management the parents can find a balance
between the two.
At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. More days than not is fine, too But striving for once a day is good. :)

Agreed. As long as it isn't at 7:40pm exactly each day.... ;)

It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. No, the one doing the most talking might just be the more talkative spouse Agreed....the one throwing things around may be the one in the wrong. :)

lol

Tai

"Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc65dj4.1l7.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...) Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time. Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As I note below, a lot of things are contagious. 2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Just remember that when one wins, both lose. 4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past. For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to #1, above. That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their resentments are not always freshly at hand.

It is not always about having total grievance recall. One thing about my DH
not living in the past, to use your words, each disagreement is brand new.
No matter how many millions of times the particular grievance has been
voiced, and some steps agreed to be taken. If enough time goes by without
steps taken, the grievance is completely forgotten. Then, the next time it
comes up, if his darling wife (me) tries to indicate it is a pattern not an
isolated instance, I get hammered for it!
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. How does one do this when it usually seems better to let sleeping dogs lie?

It is the difference between the desire for short term calm and the desire
for real resolution. I do not happen to agree with the never go to sleep
with an argument unsettled advice. But I do agree not to allow arguments to
go unsettled.
7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay. 8. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. 9. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. This is usually a good idea in the workplace, too, but realize that it's usually best to have a solution in hand as well there. Within a marriage you don't need the solution itself, just the willingness to use consensus with your partner in working out a satisfactory solution. 10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. I't add, as a corollary: 10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right, either. So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen mood full of resentment does not help. And: 11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately, not as contagious, so you have to work harder at it. Enthusiasm is key. I *was* initially going to make comments that were more light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots. -- Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net |
http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

"Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc65dj4.1l7.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Whisper wrote: I was going thru some old emails from when my Hubby and I were planning our wedding ..found this..thought I would share.. author unknown... Thanks for the posting (sure, it may be a repost...) Rules for a Happy Marriage 1. Never both be angry at the same time. Actually you have to learn NOT to be angered when your mate angry, and anger can be contagious. As I note below, a lot of things are contagious. 2. Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire. 3. If one of you HAS to win an argument, let it be your mate. Just remember that when one wins, both lose. 4. If you have to criticize, do it lovingly. 5. Never bring up mistakes of the past. For men this mistake is easier to avoid. Women seem to have "total grievance recall" and reflects back to #1, above. That doesn't mean men all have short memories, it's just that enough don't "live" in the past and so their resentments are not always freshly at hand.

It is not always about having total grievance recall. One thing about my DH
not living in the past, to use your words, each disagreement is brand new.
No matter how many millions of times the particular grievance has been
voiced, and some steps agreed to be taken. If enough time goes by without
steps taken, the grievance is completely forgotten. Then, the next time it
comes up, if his darling wife (me) tries to indicate it is a pattern not an
isolated instance, I get hammered for it!
6. Neglect the whole world rather than each other. 7. Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled. How does one do this when it usually seems better to let sleeping dogs lie?

It is the difference between the desire for short term calm and the desire
for real resolution. I do not happen to agree with the never go to sleep
with an argument unsettled advice. But I do agree not to allow arguments to
go unsettled.
7a. If you must sleep apart, it should be due to a business trip or hospital stay. 8. At least once every day try to say one kind or complimentary thing to your life's partner. 9. When you have done something wrong, be ready to admit it and ask for forgiveness. This is usually a good idea in the workplace, too, but realize that it's usually best to have a solution in hand as well there. Within a marriage you don't need the solution itself, just the willingness to use consensus with your partner in working out a satisfactory solution. 10. It takes two to make a quarrel, and the one in the wrong is the one who does the most talking. I't add, as a corollary: 10a. Just because you've silenced yourself and are nursing a silent anger doesn't mean you're right, either. So, even if you've kept your mouth shut, a sullen mood full of resentment does not help. And: 11. If one is unhappy, both are. Unhappiness is extremely contagious. Happiness is, unfortunately, not as contagious, so you have to work harder at it. Enthusiasm is key. I *was* initially going to make comments that were more light-hearted but this one hit me in enough spots. -- Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net |
http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/

Seeker <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how".

Is he talking about *fights*? Or disagreements? Becaue those are two
very different things.

I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

How do you sort out disagreements?

Seeker <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net... A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how".

Is he talking about *fights*? Or disagreements? Becaue those are two
very different things.

I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake.

How do you sort out disagreements?

10816fyeg@simplicato.net <10816fyeg@simplicato.net> wrote:
Emma Anne wrote: A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The same for him. Weknow to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible

My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily
we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much
discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm
really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or
sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life,
but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to
take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

Jack C Lipton <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote:
Actually, I suspect "low level" 'fighting' being more like two dogs barking now and again may be a way to reduce stress between since frustrations and feeling get aired rather than becoming a festering wound, never to see light.

But I see this "barking" as reducing the trust and closeness in the
marriage. If my H is barking at me, I am going to be nervous about
opening up to him.

I am *in no way* saying people should bury their resentments. I am
saying their are ways to express your true feelings in a way that makes
you closer instead of putting up barriers.

10816fyeg@simplicato.net <10816fyeg@simplicato.net> wrote:
Emma Anne wrote: A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The same for him. Weknow to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible

My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily
we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much
discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm
really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or
sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life,
but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to
take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

Jack C Lipton <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote:
Actually, I suspect "low level" 'fighting' being more like two dogs barking now and again may be a way to reduce stress between since frustrations and feeling get aired rather than becoming a festering wound, never to see light.

But I see this "barking" as reducing the trust and closeness in the
marriage. If my H is barking at me, I am going to be nervous about
opening up to him.

I am *in no way* saying people should bury their resentments. I am
saying their are ways to express your true feelings in a way that makes
you closer instead of putting up barriers.

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb92h7.1q9uccu16ga0nlN%mbjq@earthlink.net... Seeker <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote: "Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net...> A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings
of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less
closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just
by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how". Is he talking about *fights*? Or disagreements? Becaue those are two very different things.
You're the one who used the term "fights" -- it triggered a memory of
reading or reading about Gottman but I couldn't say exactly what word was
used.
I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake. How do you sort out disagreements?

I avoid them. That's how I avoid fights. Never really ever having had what
I would call a fight with my wife I'm not sure I know exactly what the word
means, however.

Ted

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb92h7.1q9uccu16ga0nlN%mbjq@earthlink.net... Seeker <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote: "Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:1gb791q.6z35ne1cgcapcN%mbjq@earthlink.net...> A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings
of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less
closeness, not more. Isn't it Gottman who says he can tell how well a marriage will fare just
by seeing *how* a couple fights? Not, "whether", but "how". Is he talking about *fights*? Or disagreements? Becaue those are two very different things.
You're the one who used the term "fights" -- it triggered a memory of
reading or reading about Gottman but I couldn't say exactly what word was
used.
I avoid fights at all cost. That is probably a mistake. How do you sort out disagreements?

I avoid them. That's how I avoid fights. Never really ever having had what
I would call a fight with my wife I'm not sure I know exactly what the word
means, however.

Ted

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb92lz.gbo01j193trh6N%mbjq@earthlink.net... My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life, but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've felt
that way.

Ted

"Emma Anne" <mbjq@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1gb92lz.gbo01j193trh6N%mbjq@earthlink.net... My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life, but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've felt
that way.

Ted

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v8dp$2c4gqe$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples
to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the
other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather
interesting. That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman. I can't imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" --
the rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other.

Well the point of the exercise was to talk about longstanding issues in the
marriage, even if these issues never really get talked about normally.

You could just sit there and stare at each other I suppose but that wouldn't
work.
Did they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was understood to be expressing contempt? (Now, whether I might actually
*feel* contempuous of her at some moment -- that's a different question. I suspect I have at times, and I know some here have read some of what I've written as having done so. But I'd never express it to her.)

Actually it was my understanding (and it has been some time since I saw
this) that the observers weren't just looking at what was said but how. The
facial expressions. The body language.

And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of
contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for
marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it would
be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language,
unconsciously.

Cheryl

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v8dp$2c4gqe$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples
to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the
other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather
interesting. That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman. I can't imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" --
the rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other.

Well the point of the exercise was to talk about longstanding issues in the
marriage, even if these issues never really get talked about normally.

You could just sit there and stare at each other I suppose but that wouldn't
work.
Did they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was understood to be expressing contempt? (Now, whether I might actually
*feel* contempuous of her at some moment -- that's a different question. I suspect I have at times, and I know some here have read some of what I've written as having done so. But I'd never express it to her.)

Actually it was my understanding (and it has been some time since I saw
this) that the observers weren't just looking at what was said but how. The
facial expressions. The body language.

And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of
contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for
marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it would
be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language,
unconsciously.

Cheryl

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c41u59$dbs$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it would be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language, unconsciously.

I had to look up "contempt" -- the one that seemed best was "lack of
respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike" -- and I was right
that I can't see either one of us fitting that -- the *intense* dislike
simply is not there.

I also looked up "respect" -- that's more intriguing. Here are three
definitions of it as a noun: (the definition for the verb is mostly #1)
1.. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2.. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3.. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation
I know I have been accused of not showing respect for my wife. 3 I do. 1
and 2 I plead guilty on. And I'm beginning to have a hunch why -- not to
lay the blame on him, but to try to understand -- that's how I see my father
as having treated my mother. Something to ponder and do something about.

Ted

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c41u59$dbs$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it would be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language, unconsciously.

I had to look up "contempt" -- the one that seemed best was "lack of
respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike" -- and I was right
that I can't see either one of us fitting that -- the *intense* dislike
simply is not there.

I also looked up "respect" -- that's more intriguing. Here are three
definitions of it as a noun: (the definition for the verb is mostly #1)
1.. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2.. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3.. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation
I know I have been accused of not showing respect for my wife. 3 I do. 1
and 2 I plead guilty on. And I'm beginning to have a hunch why -- not to
lay the blame on him, but to try to understand -- that's how I see my father
as having treated my mother. Something to ponder and do something about.

Ted

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c420kp$1lra1t$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c41u59$dbs$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it
would be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language, unconsciously. I had to look up "contempt" -- the one that seemed best was "lack of respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike" -- and I was right that I can't see either one of us fitting that -- the *intense* dislike simply is not there. I also looked up "respect" -- that's more intriguing. Here are three definitions of it as a noun: (the definition for the verb is mostly #1) 1.. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2.. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3.. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation I know I have been accused of not showing respect for my wife. 3 I do. 1 and 2 I plead guilty on. And I'm beginning to have a hunch why -- not to lay the blame on him, but to try to understand -- that's how I see my
father as having treated my mother. Something to ponder and do something about.

Well, as long as the intense dislike is missing, it sounds like you don't
really have "contempt" for your wife, which is a good thing. I was kind of
surprised that you said you sometimes felt contemptuous of her. Perhaps you
just meant you sometimes don't feel respect for her, which is only half of
the equation.

Cheryl

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c420kp$1lra1t$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c41u59$dbs$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... And I also got the feeling that it might not just be the expression of contempt, but the *feeling* of contempt, that could both be bad for marriage. And contempt is a pretty strong emotion...It seems like it
would be hard not to express it....in facial expression and body language, unconsciously. I had to look up "contempt" -- the one that seemed best was "lack of respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike" -- and I was right that I can't see either one of us fitting that -- the *intense* dislike simply is not there. I also looked up "respect" -- that's more intriguing. Here are three definitions of it as a noun: (the definition for the verb is mostly #1) 1.. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2.. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3.. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation I know I have been accused of not showing respect for my wife. 3 I do. 1 and 2 I plead guilty on. And I'm beginning to have a hunch why -- not to lay the blame on him, but to try to understand -- that's how I see my
father as having treated my mother. Something to ponder and do something about.

Well, as long as the intense dislike is missing, it sounds like you don't
really have "contempt" for your wife, which is a good thing. I was kind of
surprised that you said you sometimes felt contemptuous of her. Perhaps you
just meant you sometimes don't feel respect for her, which is only half of
the equation.

Cheryl

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4212v$g1r$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
.. Well, as long as the intense dislike is missing, it sounds like you don't really have "contempt" for your wife, which is a good thing. I was kind of surprised that you said you sometimes felt contemptuous of her. Perhaps
you just meant you sometimes don't feel respect for her, which is only half of the equation.

That's why I looked it up -- your reference to it being a *strong* emotion
made me wonder if I'd used the right word. Other than fear of various
kinds, sadness about some things, and feelings of loneliness at times, it
seems I don't have any strong *negative* emotions about much of anything or
anyone. I don't know if that's good or if it means I just haven't
acknowledged them. (I definitely have strong *positive* emotions.)

Ted

"Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4212v$g1r$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
.. Well, as long as the intense dislike is missing, it sounds like you don't really have "contempt" for your wife, which is a good thing. I was kind of surprised that you said you sometimes felt contemptuous of her. Perhaps
you just meant you sometimes don't feel respect for her, which is only half of the equation.

That's why I looked it up -- your reference to it being a *strong* emotion
made me wonder if I'd used the right word. Other than fear of various
kinds, sadness about some things, and feelings of loneliness at times, it
seems I don't have any strong *negative* emotions about much of anything or
anyone. I don't know if that's good or if it means I just haven't
acknowledged them. (I definitely have strong *positive* emotions.)

Ted

Seeker wrote:
That's why I looked it up -- your reference to it being a *strong* emotion made me wonder if I'd used the right word. Other than fear of various kinds, sadness about some things, and feelings of loneliness at times, it seems I don't have any strong *negative* emotions about much of anything or anyone. I don't know if that's good or if it means I just haven't acknowledged them. (I definitely have strong *positive* emotions.)

I don't know if I've ever used the word contempt in re to how you
come across here concerning your wife. If I did, I'll change it now.
I don't think you're contemptuous, but I do think you're very dis-
missive of her feelings and thoughts and actions. It's pretty ironic,
IMO, that *you* want *her* to be more interested/participate more/etc.,
in what you find interesting/pleasurable/intriguing while, at the
same time, you're not reciprocating.

Tracey

Seeker wrote:
That's why I looked it up -- your reference to it being a *strong* emotion made me wonder if I'd used the right word. Other than fear of various kinds, sadness about some things, and feelings of loneliness at times, it seems I don't have any strong *negative* emotions about much of anything or anyone. I don't know if that's good or if it means I just haven't acknowledged them. (I definitely have strong *positive* emotions.)

I don't know if I've ever used the word contempt in re to how you
come across here concerning your wife. If I did, I'll change it now.
I don't think you're contemptuous, but I do think you're very dis-
missive of her feelings and thoughts and actions. It's pretty ironic,
IMO, that *you* want *her* to be more interested/participate more/etc.,
in what you find interesting/pleasurable/intriguing while, at the
same time, you're not reciprocating.

Tracey

"Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40649070.3040102@aol.com...I don't know if I've ever used the word contempt in re to how you come across here concerning your wife. If I did, I'll change it now. I don't think you're contemptuous, but I do think you're very dis- missive of her feelings and thoughts and actions. It's pretty ironic, IMO, that *you* want *her* to be more interested/participate more/etc., in what you find interesting/pleasurable/intriguing while, at the same time, you're not reciprocating.

I don't believe anyone has said I've come across as contemptuous -- that was
all in the context of talking about Gottman. But I have been told I come
across as disrespectful. Now, where you get the idea that I am "dismissive"
of her "feelings and thoughts and actions" really puzzles me -- if anything,
I've been accused of being too sensitive to all of those -- I'm afraid of
hurting her feelings, afraid of what she might think about me or what I
might say, afraid of what actions she might take. That doesn't sound at
all "dismissive," does it? I will admit, however, that since her response
to anything is to look for reasons to oppose change, to look for the
downside, to look for what might have been overlooked, that I am inclined to
dismiss her reaction ahead of time as being so automatic and instinctively
negative that it doesn't contribute anything. It isn't that I "dismiss" her
response so much as I know what it's going to be so it contributes little.

Ted

"Tracey" <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:40649070.3040102@aol.com...I don't know if I've ever used the word contempt in re to how you come across here concerning your wife. If I did, I'll change it now. I don't think you're contemptuous, but I do think you're very dis- missive of her feelings and thoughts and actions. It's pretty ironic, IMO, that *you* want *her* to be more interested/participate more/etc., in what you find interesting/pleasurable/intriguing while, at the same time, you're not reciprocating.

I don't believe anyone has said I've come across as contemptuous -- that was
all in the context of talking about Gottman. But I have been told I come
across as disrespectful. Now, where you get the idea that I am "dismissive"
of her "feelings and thoughts and actions" really puzzles me -- if anything,
I've been accused of being too sensitive to all of those -- I'm afraid of
hurting her feelings, afraid of what she might think about me or what I
might say, afraid of what actions she might take. That doesn't sound at
all "dismissive," does it? I will admit, however, that since her response
to anything is to look for reasons to oppose change, to look for the
downside, to look for what might have been overlooked, that I am inclined to
dismiss her reaction ahead of time as being so automatic and instinctively
negative that it doesn't contribute anything. It isn't that I "dismiss" her
response so much as I know what it's going to be so it contributes little.

Ted

>What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've feltthat way.Ted

"Furious" for me, comes in two (related) ways. The first one occurs mostly
with my those closest to me (at one point in our relationship, with my DH).
That is when I feel that there is a pattern that has been talked about, agreed
to change, and yet still occurs. As I've mentioned here before, we went
through a very rough period with his daughters, and I'd find myself furious
when we had agreed to a course of action, and then he'd renege. He'd always
see mitigating factors that made it okay for him to renege on our agreement,
but I saw it as him breaking the agreement. I'd be furious.

The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm
confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything about
a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from
person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and
over again, I can find myself building fury.

Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to
effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm
okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger.

Sheila

>What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've feltthat way.Ted

"Furious" for me, comes in two (related) ways. The first one occurs mostly
with my those closest to me (at one point in our relationship, with my DH).
That is when I feel that there is a pattern that has been talked about, agreed
to change, and yet still occurs. As I've mentioned here before, we went
through a very rough period with his daughters, and I'd find myself furious
when we had agreed to a course of action, and then he'd renege. He'd always
see mitigating factors that made it okay for him to renege on our agreement,
but I saw it as him breaking the agreement. I'd be furious.

The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm
confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything about
a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from
person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and
over again, I can find myself building fury.

Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to
effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm
okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger.

Sheila

WhansaMi wrote: What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've felt that way. Ted "Furious" for me, comes in two (related) ways. The first one occurs mostly with my those closest to me (at one point in our relationship, with my DH). That is when I feel that there is a pattern that has been talked about,
agreed to change, and yet still occurs. As I've mentioned here before, we went through a very rough period with his daughters, and I'd find myself furious when we had agreed to a course of action, and then he'd renege. He'd always see mitigating factors that made it okay for him to renege on our agreement, but I saw it as him breaking the agreement. I'd be furious. The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything
about a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. Sheila

Boy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY is
this bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtake us,
and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that she
is immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. And
yet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh...

"The path to salvation is as difficult to walk as a razor's edge" (Somerset
Maugham)

WhansaMi wrote: What sort of thing makes you "furious"? I can't ever think when I've felt that way. Ted "Furious" for me, comes in two (related) ways. The first one occurs mostly with my those closest to me (at one point in our relationship, with my DH). That is when I feel that there is a pattern that has been talked about,
agreed to change, and yet still occurs. As I've mentioned here before, we went through a very rough period with his daughters, and I'd find myself furious when we had agreed to a course of action, and then he'd renege. He'd always see mitigating factors that made it okay for him to renege on our agreement, but I saw it as him breaking the agreement. I'd be furious. The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything
about a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. Sheila

Boy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY is
this bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtake us,
and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that she
is immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. And
yet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh...

"The path to salvation is as difficult to walk as a razor's edge" (Somerset
Maugham)

The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anythingabout a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem,I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. SheilaBoy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY isthis bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtakeus,and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that sheis immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. Andyet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh...

Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all
situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long!
Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story of what
happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we make jokes
about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night.

I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-)

Sheila

The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anythingabout a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem,I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. SheilaBoy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY isthis bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtakeus,and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that sheis immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. Andyet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh...

Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all
situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long!
Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story of what
happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we make jokes
about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night.

I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-)

Sheila

WhansaMi wrote: The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything about a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. Sheila Boy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY
is this bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtake us, and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that
she is immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. And yet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh... Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long! Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story of what happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we make
jokes about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night. I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-) Sheila

OK - that is GOOD, and an important distinction, Sheila. You're in better
shape. (Well, we all knew that). :-)

WhansaMi wrote: The other situation that makes me furious is more likely to occur with I'm confronted with "bureaucracy" and I feel totally helpless to do anything about a situation. When something is very important and I'm being shifted from person to person, with nothing getting done, or encountering ineptness over and over again, I can find myself building fury. Of course, both of these circumstances have to do with feeling helpless to effect change. As long as I feel I can **DO** something about a problem, I'm okay. But, when I feel helpless, my response is intense anger. Sheila Boy can I identify with that last one. And yet the counselor says, "WHY
is this bothering you so much"? You/We have a Choice: to let IT overtake us, and consume us, or - to "empower ourselves" and free ourselves, (not that
she is immune all the time, either), but still, the words ring true. And yet.....it is so difficult to do.... sigh... Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long! Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story of what happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we make
jokes about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night. I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-) Sheila

OK - that is GOOD, and an important distinction, Sheila. You're in better
shape. (Well, we all knew that). :-)

>> Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long! Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story ofwhat happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we makejokes about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night. I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-) SheilaOK - that is GOOD, and an important distinction, Sheila. You're in bettershape. (Well, we all knew that). :-)

LOL! I just asked my DH if he thinks I'm mercurial. He said no, because he
equates mercurial with having a short fuse, and I don't. However, if we take
it to mean that I can change moods pretty quickly, then, yeah, I am.

Sheila

>> Bill, well, my fury is pretty short-lived, fortunately -- in almost all situations. So, it doesn't really consume me, at least not for very long! Typically what has happened is that I call my DH, tell him the story ofwhat happened -- complete with a few choice expletives! --- and then we makejokes about being amazed that some folks find their way home every night. I burn hot, but pretty fast. ;-) SheilaOK - that is GOOD, and an important distinction, Sheila. You're in bettershape. (Well, we all knew that). :-)

LOL! I just asked my DH if he thinks I'm mercurial. He said no, because he
equates mercurial with having a short fuse, and I don't. However, if we take
it to mean that I can change moods pretty quickly, then, yeah, I am.

Sheila

Emma Anne wrote:
10816fyeg@simplicato.net <10816fyeg@simplicato.net> wrote: Emma Anne wrote: A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The same for him. We now to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life, but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

Well I don't tend to yell, although I did when I was younger. My DH says I
am the most tolerant person he knows. I don't know if that is true (most
likely not) but I tend to ignore what most people get annoyed with. In
other words I don't really care if my husband picks up after himself or
does stuff around the house. But I get really mad when I have to repeatly
ask someone to stop doing something and yet I'm ignored(like they somehow
know better that I what I want)

Emma Anne wrote:
10816fyeg@simplicato.net <10816fyeg@simplicato.net> wrote: Emma Anne wrote: A lot of the emphasis seems to be on not fighting. This is something I've changed my opinion on over the years. I do think frank airings of feelings and even heated discussions are good things, but I now think fights just result in hurt feelings and defensiveness. Less closeness, not more. Oh I agree. It is all in the way one sorts out disagreements. I know when I get upset I need to cool down. Then my hubby and I can discuss things. The same for him. We now to give each other space. Fortunately neither he nor I get very upset with each other too often. I guess we are pretty compatible My H and I had very dramatic fights when we first got together. Luckily we were gaga in love, and could get past it. But now - we pretty much discuss things. Even if I'm really furious, I can *usually* say "I'm really furious - how can we sort this out?" Instead of having to yell or sulk. I'm not promising to never yell or sulk again in my whole life, but it is extremely rare at this point. I agree that knowing when to take some time alone before trying to deal with stuff is key.

Well I don't tend to yell, although I did when I was younger. My DH says I
am the most tolerant person he knows. I don't know if that is true (most
likely not) but I tend to ignore what most people get annoyed with. In
other words I don't really care if my husband picks up after himself or
does stuff around the house. But I get really mad when I have to repeatly
ask someone to stop doing something and yet I'm ignored(like they somehow
know better that I what I want)

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v8dp$2c4gqe$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples
to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the
other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather
interesting. That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman.

Here are a couple of references that turned up in a quick search:

http://listarchives.his.com/smartmarriages/smartmarriages.9909/msg00026.html
http://depts.washington.edu/uweek/archives/1998.02.FEB_26/_article6.html

I can't imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" --
the rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other. Did they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was understood to be expressing contempt?

"What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the
intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative
thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes,
mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot around
money").
from:
http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0430.htm

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3v8dp$2c4gqe$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de... "Red" <clafount@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3v7i9$12lg$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... I saw a news magazine show (maybe it was "Dateline" or maybe it was "60 Minutes") about some guy who hooked up all these scientific doo-dads to couples to measure their physical responses, and then told the couples
to talk about some of their bigger marital issues. He was able to predict, with a good amount of accuracy, which marriages would end in divorce. The common denominator in the failed marriages was that one or both partners expressed the feeling of contempt for the
other. Apparently, more than anger, or sadness, or anything, feeling contempous of your partner is a marriage killer. I thought that was rather
interesting. That sounds very much like it was an interview with Gottman.

Here are a couple of references that turned up in a quick search:

http://listarchives.his.com/smartmarriages/smartmarriages.9909/msg00026.html
http://depts.washington.edu/uweek/archives/1998.02.FEB_26/_article6.html

I can't imagine having an argument with my wife, either alone or in "public" --
the rare times we have a clear argument -- in which either one of us would say something that could be even construed as contemptuous of the other. Did they say, or did you hear, what kind of language was used that was understood to be expressing contempt?

"What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the
intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative
thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes,
mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot around
money").
from:
http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0430.htm

In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy
<joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
"What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot around money").

Definitely not guilty of that -- but I have run across some who I think
are.

Ted

In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy
<joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
"What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot around money").

Definitely not guilty of that -- but I have run across some who I think
are.

Ted

"Seeker" <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message
news:270320041353349152%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com... In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote: "What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot
around money"). Definitely not guilty of that -- but I have run across some who I think are.

I used to be married to someone who behaved like that. I can attest to the
fact that it is a relationship killer.
Joy

"Seeker" <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message
news:270320041353349152%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com... In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote: "What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot
around money"). Definitely not guilty of that -- but I have run across some who I think are.

I used to be married to someone who behaved like that. I can attest to the
fact that it is a relationship killer.
Joy

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:07:49 -0500, "Joy"
<joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote: "What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiotaround money").
I used to be married to someone who behaved like that. I can attest to thefact that it is a relationship killer.

Same here, Joy. And I think that, probably, I repaid him in kind.
When he was contemptuous, I repaid him in the same fashion; in
retrospect, our relationship didn't stand a chance. It's a miracle
that it lasted 16 years.

Lauri in WA

I like my email spamless

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:07:49 -0500, "Joy"
<joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

In article <EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, Joy <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote: "What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiotaround money").
I used to be married to someone who behaved like that. I can attest to thefact that it is a relationship killer.

Same here, Joy. And I think that, probably, I repaid him in kind.
When he was contemptuous, I repaid him in the same fashion; in
retrospect, our relationship didn't stand a chance. It's a miracle
that it lasted 16 years.

Lauri in WA

I like my email spamless

Seeker wrote:
I don't believe anyone has said I've come across as contemptuous -- that was all in the context of talking about Gottman.

Okay. Got things a bit confused, I guess.
But I have been told I come across as disrespectful. Now, where you get the idea that I am "dismissive" of her "feelings and thoughts and actions" really puzzles me -- if anything, I've been accused of being too sensitive to all of those -- I'm afraid of hurting her feelings, afraid of what she might think about me or what I might say, afraid of what actions she might take. That doesn't sound at all "dismissive," does it?

The thing is, Ted, you're not afraid of hurting her feelings, or afraid
of what she might think about you or what you say, afraid of what
actions she might take for *her* sake but for your own. You've said
over and over again that the thing that stops you from telling all
is that you're afraid your marriage will be irretrievably damaged.
That your comfortable, working relationship will no longer be that.
That's all about you, not about your wife at all. Your actions are
'right', the fears and feelings driving those actions are not, IMO.

There's a big difference in being considerate of your spouse's
feelings because you don't want them to be hurt and being consider-
ate of your spouse's feelings because they can make life miserable
for you. From what I've read over the years, you fall in the second
category *much* more than you fall in the first.

BUT, to go back to the dismissive thing, I think you're very dis-
missive of your wife. Almost everything (I would say everything
because I truly cannot think of an exception to this, but I can't
be sure so I'll say 'almost') you've said about what makes your
wife happy, what she does, what she talks about, etc., you've
'dissed'. It's boring. It's repetitive. It's stagnant. It's not
a 'growing' action. It's not intimate enough for you. It's just
plain not good enough for you. You may not show it to her, but
your thoughts about it all are dismissive. That's what I mean
about being dismissive. Not your actions, but your thoughts.
I will admit, however, that since her response to anything is to look for reasons to oppose change, to look for the downside, to look for what might have been overlooked, that I am inclined to dismiss her reaction ahead of time as being so automatic and instinctively negative that it doesn't contribute anything. It isn't that I "dismiss" her response so much as I know what it's going to be so it contributes little.

Nice twisting there.

Tracey

Seeker wrote:
I don't believe anyone has said I've come across as contemptuous -- that was all in the context of talking about Gottman.

Okay. Got things a bit confused, I guess.
But I have been told I come across as disrespectful. Now, where you get the idea that I am "dismissive" of her "feelings and thoughts and actions" really puzzles me -- if anything, I've been accused of being too sensitive to all of those -- I'm afraid of hurting her feelings, afraid of what she might think about me or what I might say, afraid of what actions she might take. That doesn't sound at all "dismissive," does it?

The thing is, Ted, you're not afraid of hurting her feelings, or afraid
of what she might think about you or what you say, afraid of what
actions she might take for *her* sake but for your own. You've said
over and over again that the thing that stops you from telling all
is that you're afraid your marriage will be irretrievably damaged.
That your comfortable, working relationship will no longer be that.
That's all about you, not about your wife at all. Your actions are
'right', the fears and feelings driving those actions are not, IMO.

There's a big difference in being considerate of your spouse's
feelings because you don't want them to be hurt and being consider-
ate of your spouse's feelings because they can make life miserable
for you. From what I've read over the years, you fall in the second
category *much* more than you fall in the first.

BUT, to go back to the dismissive thing, I think you're very dis-
missive of your wife. Almost everything (I would say everything
because I truly cannot think of an exception to this, but I can't
be sure so I'll say 'almost') you've said about what makes your
wife happy, what she does, what she talks about, etc., you've
'dissed'. It's boring. It's repetitive. It's stagnant. It's not
a 'growing' action. It's not intimate enough for you. It's just
plain not good enough for you. You may not show it to her, but
your thoughts about it all are dismissive. That's what I mean
about being dismissive. Not your actions, but your thoughts.
I will admit, however, that since her response to anything is to look for reasons to oppose change, to look for the downside, to look for what might have been overlooked, that I am inclined to dismiss her reaction ahead of time as being so automatic and instinctively negative that it doesn't contribute anything. It isn't that I "dismiss" her response so much as I know what it's going to be so it contributes little.

Nice twisting there.

Tracey

In article <406705EA.2010504@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
Not your actions, but your thoughts.

I'm not ignoring you Tracey, but this post will take more time to
answer than I have now (or that I'm any shape to do right now -- it's
been a long, busy, emotionally draining weekend.)

Ted

In article <406705EA.2010504@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
Not your actions, but your thoughts.

I'm not ignoring you Tracey, but this post will take more time to
answer than I have now (or that I'm any shape to do right now -- it's
been a long, busy, emotionally draining weekend.)

Ted

"Joy" <joydoesntlikespam@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EX99c.21323$fl6.916@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
<snip> "What separates contempt from criticism," explains Gottman, "is the intention to insult and psychologically abuse your partner." Negative thoughts about the other come out in subtle put-downs, hostile jokes, mocking facial expressions, and name-calling ("You are such an idiot
around money"). from: http://www.holysmoke.org/fem/fem0430.htm

This is a fascinating article! I was especially surprised at this:

"Nor will conflict-avoiding couples, the third type of stable
marriage, necessarily benefit from an increase in their emotional
expression, he says. Gottman likens such unions to "the placid
waters of a summer lake," where neither partner wants to make
waves. They keep the peace and minimize argument by constantly
agreeing to disagree. "In these relationships, solving a problem
usually means ignoring the difference, one partner agreeing to act
more like the other . . . or most often just letting time take its
course." The universal five-to- one [1] ratio must still be present for
the couple to stay together, but it gets translated into a much
smaller number of swipes and caresses (which are also less
intensely expressed). This restrained style may seem stifling to
some, but the couple themselves can experience it as a peaceful
contentment."

[1] "What Gottman and his colleagues have discovered -- and summarized
for popular audiences in a new book, Why Marriages Succeed or Fail
(Simon & Schuster) -- is mind-boggling i