"Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No healthy woman wants a man like that. If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you.

I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being
such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The
programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice
guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on
and on.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike (with all that X crap in his name) said... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No healthy woman wants a man like that. If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you. I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on and on.


Mike, after reading this post I can see it's hopeless.

I give up. You win. Go forth with your new philosophy since apparently
your entire generation of males is doomed to fight over three women and
you'll probably have to move to India just to get a job delivering
pizzas. Just make sure you act like a jerk and everything will work
out.

At least you have Ron to teach you how to be the man you shouldn't be.


Casey

"Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]"
<aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too
obsequious. "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No healthy woman wants a man like that. If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a
Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could
sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you. I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on and on. Thanks, Mike

Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice guys
finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous.
Ok, let's use me as a subject.
I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date are
not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed men,
so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on
their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted to
men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted to
men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am not
attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard,
so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond
their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated by
people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on any
number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion. I
am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is the
overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested in
men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling
with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all of them
are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women,
and are not doonsayers.

This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't fit
into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that mean he
was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't fit
into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting to
know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I
stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy?
Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't go
out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen.
I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot
do. I don't think most women do.

SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being able
to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they are
such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to blame
the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems.

Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if your
self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in any
endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by bitter
people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized
by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring to take
the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you don't
join that team. They are the true losers.

wishing you the best,
Pamela

Pamela wrote: "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No healthy woman wants a man like that. If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you. I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on and on. Thanks, Mike Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice guys finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. Ok, let's use me as a subject. I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date are not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed men, so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted to men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted to men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am not attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard, so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated by people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on any number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion. I am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is the overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested in men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all of them are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women, and are not doonsayers. This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't fit into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that mean he was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't fit into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting to know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't go out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen. I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot do. I don't think most women do. SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being able to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they are such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to blame the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems. Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if your self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in any endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by bitter people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring to take the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you don't join that team. They are the true losers. wishing you the best, Pamela

I agree with ya 100% Pam. It's almost a no brainer, or at least it SHOULD
be, if it isn't. Wake up and smell the roses, you guys.

so how do you FIND these three guys on the planet who meet your criteria?
Pamela <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message
news:H7O1c.21749$aT1.10824@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela
were looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like
a mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation.
No healthy woman wants a man like that. If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say
she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you. I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for
being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being
"nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues
on and on. Thanks, Mike Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice
guys finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. Ok, let's use me as a subject. I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date
are not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed
men, so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted
to men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted
to men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am
not attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their
backyard, so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated by people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on any number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion.
I am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is
the overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested
in men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all of
them are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women, and are not doonsayers. This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't
fit into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that mean
he was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't fit into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting to know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't
go out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish
cavemen. I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot do. I don't think most women do. SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being
able to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they are such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to blame the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems. Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if your self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in
any endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by bitter people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is
utilized by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring to
take the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you
don't join that team. They are the true losers. wishing you the best, Pamela

You just have to look in the right places. They are there. Well, ok, maybe
it's down to two, now.

perky wrote: so how do you FIND these three guys on the planet who meet your criteria?
Pamela <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:H7O1c.21749$aT1.10824@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net...> Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote:> This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious.> "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were> looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a> mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No> healthy woman wants a man like that.>> If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's> wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real> Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without> saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep> with and she didn't really matter much to you.> I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on and on. Thanks, Mike Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice guys finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. Ok, let's use me as a subject. I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date are not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed men, so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted to men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted to men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am not attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard, so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated by people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on any number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion. I am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is the overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested in men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all of them are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women, and are not doonsayers. This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't fit into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that mean he was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't fit into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting to know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't go out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen. I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot do. I don't think most women do. SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being able to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they are such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to blame the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems. Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if your self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in any endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by bitter people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring to take the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you don't join that team. They are the true losers. wishing you the best, Pamela

"Bill in Co." <surly_curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TuQ1c.21863$aT1.3787@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... You just have to look in the right places. They are there. Well, ok,
maybe it's down to two, now.

This is an excellent point (though you probably didn't realize you were
making it). It's a lot like a job. When I go and look for a job I look for
the most that someone will pay me to do the work. I don't need (nor do I
want) a dozen companies coming after me telling me that they want me. I'm
only going to have one job so I'm looking for that one person (company) who
is willing to pay just a little bit more to have me.

The same holds true from finding a mate. You're not looking for quantity
here but quality. You can be all things to all people and get plenty of
women knocking at your door or you can be the best you that you can be and
look for the one person who really will fill that role of being your
partner. If you're getting *a ton* of offers then you're probably too
generic (unless, of course, your goal is to just sleep around -then you're
probably doing something right).

Just think of it like this: How many women do I really want to have as
girlfriend and, possibly, long-term mate? The answer ought to be: 1

You don't really need 12 women if your answer is 1. Of course, if you're
getting 0, currently, then that is, obviously, less than 1 and you ought to
change something to increase your chances (I'd guess: confidence).

Good luck in your endeavors.

Brad

(IMO) The best way to find someone is to be yourself, and let it happen when
it happens. Not to go out looking, per se.

LOL. So far in the last three years there have been a few. I am not in
any kind of rush to find someone or to get married. I couldn't be. I've
been single for 12 years now. Really, don't know if I ever could be happy
married again. Not that I feel any antagonism toward marriage, it's just
that I don't want anyone else in my bathroom. :0)

Pamela

"perky" <potato@whoever.com> wrote in message
news:U_O1c.147279$hR.2747437@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... so how do you FIND these three guys on the planet who meet your criteria? Pamela <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:H7O1c.21749$aT1.10824@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... > Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: > This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. > "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were > looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound
like a > mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No > healthy woman wants a man like that. > > If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's > wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real > Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without > saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep > with and she didn't really matter much to you. > I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps. The programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle
continues on and on. Thanks, Mike Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice guys finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. Ok, let's use me as a subject. I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date are not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed men, so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted to men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted to men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am not attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard, so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated
by people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on
any number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to
discussion. I am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is the overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not
interested in men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still
struggling with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all of them are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about
women, and are not doonsayers. This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't fit into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that mean he was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't
fit into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting
to know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't go out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen. I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or
cannot do. I don't think most women do. SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being able to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they
are such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to
blame the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems. Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if
your self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in any endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by
bitter people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring to take the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you don't join that team. They are the true losers. wishing you the best, Pamela

I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell me
*I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo

"Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message
news:jkV1c.22296$aT1.8224@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... LOL. So far in the last three years there have been a few. I am not
in any kind of rush to find someone or to get married. I couldn't be. I've been single for 12 years now. Really, don't know if I ever could be
happy married again. Not that I feel any antagonism toward marriage, it's
just that I don't want anyone else in my bathroom. :0) Pamela "perky" <potato@whoever.com> wrote in message news:U_O1c.147279$hR.2747437@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... so how do you FIND these three guys on the planet who meet your
criteria? Pamela <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:H7O1c.21749$aT1.10824@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... > "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... > > Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: > > This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too obsequious. > > "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If
Pamela were > > looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you sound like a > > mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for
self-affirmation. No > > healthy woman wants a man like that. > > > > If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her,
say she's > > wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader
and a Real > > Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly
without > > saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you
could sleep > > with and she didn't really matter much to you. > > > > I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad
for being > such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table scrps.
The > programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself
being "nice > guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on > and on. > > Thanks, > > Mike > > Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the
nice guys finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. Ok, let's use me as a subject. I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I
date are not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly
dressed men, so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with
hair on their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not
attracted to men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not
attracted to men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do.
I am not attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard, so all of them have something interesting to say about the world
beyond their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or
irritated by people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them
on any number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion. I am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose
faith is the overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested in men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So, all
of them are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women, and are not doonsayers. This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone
didn't fit into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does that
mean he was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone
didn't fit into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through
getting to know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that
mean I stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I
don't go out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen. I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot do. I don't think most women do. SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not
being able to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because
they are such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier to blame the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our problems. Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win
if your self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of
success in any endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed by bitter people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living, preferring
to take the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope
you don't join that team. They are the true losers. wishing you the best, Pamela

"surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message
news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell
me *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo
And you folks wonder why I have such a hard time getting decent dates.....
Look at the "Quality Assurance" standards I have to meet. Maybe I need to
be ISO 9000 certified? :-)

Thanks,

Mike

"Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message news:4048906D.521B@cox.net... What he's said is more or less the same thing that I said, yet he gets a standing ovation.

Maybe I was more abrubt.

Have a great weekend!

Brad

Werebat wrote:
What he's said is more or less the same thing that I said, yet he gets a standing ovation.

He must be better looking, or possibly earning more than you.

and, why would you do that?

"surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message
news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell
me *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:jkV1c.22296$aT1.8224@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net... LOL. So far in the last three years there have been a few. I am not in any kind of rush to find someone or to get married. I couldn't be.
I've been single for 12 years now. Really, don't know if I ever could be happy married again. Not that I feel any antagonism toward marriage, it's just that I don't want anyone else in my bathroom. :0) Pamela "perky" <potato@whoever.com> wrote in message news:U_O1c.147279$hR.2747437@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... so how do you FIND these three guys on the planet who meet your criteria? Pamela <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:H7O1c.21749$aT1.10824@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... > > > "Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]" > <aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message > news:TPmdnfzqOJFUBNrdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... > > "Werebat" <rpoirier2@cox.net> wrote in message > news:4047443A.58EB@cox.net... > > > Mike (Remove X's to reply) wrote: > > > This is why you don't have luck with women, Mike. You're too > obsequious. > > > "I'm sorry", "I'm trying", "Thank you", blah blah blah. If Pamela were > > > looking you face to face she'd NEVER sleep with you -- you
sound like a > > > mewling, whining boob who is dependent on her for self-affirmation. No > > > healthy woman wants a man like that. > > > > > > If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's > > > wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a > Real > > > Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without > > > saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could > sleep > > > with and she didn't really matter much to you. > > > > > > > I know, Ron. I know. That's why I'm so mad at myself. I'm mad for being > > such a loser "nice guy" all my life and settling for table
scrps. The > > programming is so deeply entrenched, that when I catch myself being "nice > > guy" I get mad at myself for being such a loser and the cycle continues on > > and on. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike > > > > > > Oh, poo - that's not true, expected, but not true. Throw out the nice guys > finish last stuff, it's just ridiculous. > Ok, let's use me as a subject. > I am not attracted to men who are not physically fit, so men I date are > not overweight or underweight. I am not attracted to slovenly dressed men, > so all of them are well dressed. I am not attracted to men with hair on > their face, so none of them have beards or mustaches. I am not attracted to > men who use poor grammar, so all of them speak well. I am not attracted to > men who punctuate their speech with profanity, so none of them do. I am not > attracted to men who are not interested in the world outside their backyard, > so all of them have something interesting to say about the world beyond > their backyard. I am not interested in men who get upset or irritated by > people who have well thought out, yet different opinions than them on any > number of subjects, so all of them are open minded and open to discussion. I > am not interested in men who are extremely religious, and whose faith is the > overriding guide for their life, so none of them are. I am not interested in > men who have not gotten over a divorce or their ex or are still struggling > with who they are and where they want to be or go in life. So,
all of them > are confident, relatively happy with their lives, not bitter about women, > and are not doonsayers. > > This is what I am attracted to, among other things. If someone didn't fit > into these descriptions and asked me out and was refused, does
that mean he > was refused simply because he was a nice guy? And, if someone didn't fit > into those parameters, and I dated them, but found out through getting to > know them, that they didn't, and so stopped dating them, did that mean I > stopped dating him just because he was a nice guy? > Guess what, every guy I have ever gone out with was a nice guy. I don't go > out with anything but nice guys. I don't like swaggering, boorish cavemen. > I don't like to be told what I do and don't like, or what I can or cannot > do. I don't think most women do. > > SO, it seems to me that those who consistently complain about not being able > to find someone because they are such nice guys, and only because they are > such nice guys, are really deluding themselves. It's much easier
to blame > the world than look within ourselves for the truth of our
problems. > > Never buy that line that you can't win if your nice. You can't win if your > self deluded, or if you blame everyone else for your lack of success in any > endeavor. The Nice Guys Finish Last philosophy is only believed
by bitter > people who use it to justify their lack of success in life. It is utilized > by those who refuse to accept responsibility for living,
preferring to take > the easier route of blaming everyone and everything else. I hope you don't > join that team. They are the true losers. > > wishing you the best, > Pamela > > >

--




"Mike (Remove X's to reply)" <aXeXnXeXaXs@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:54CdnaQXz_je19XdRVn-tA@adelphia.com... "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell me *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo And you folks wonder why I have such a hard time getting decent dates..... Look at the "Quality Assurance" standards I have to meet. Maybe I need to be ISO 9000 certified? :-) Thanks, Mike

Right, if your dirty, unkempt, have not kept yourself in good physical
shape, are not interested in anything but yourself, are unbendable in your
opinions and do not believe that other's are entitled to their opinions, and
are emotionally unbalanced because of your divorce,
you have no chance with me.

If you think those are tough standards, then I am almost certain the problem
is not in the women you meet.

Pamela

"Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes:
I didn't see it that way. You said this: Ron said: "If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you." I just don't agree with that at all. Really, I would find a man with that type of attitude nothing more than amusing.

If you _actually_ find that amusing, then you may be making Ron's
point. Amusing is often the first step. If you are amused, you keep
talking to someone, and then either discover you have more in common,
oryou don't.

Not that I find Ron's argument (or Mike's complaint) particularly
convincing or compelling.

"Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message
news:gm22c.22760$aT1.155@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... and, why would you do that? "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell me *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo

I think the her 'shopping list' is fine as long as she's getting the
occassional hit from it. She's not going for dozens of guys. She's going for
one. If she's got a dozen guys calling her, she (and most other people) are
going to have to choose somehow and that is where these 'standards' kick in.
Only if she has no one calling her does she really have the need to lower
her standards.

It's sort of like getting a job. If you have dozens of offers then your
criteria (pay and maybe some other things) is too low. You're only going to
go to have one job so why not pick the best one?

Have a great weekend!

Brad

People aren't a list of items.

Thanks,

Mike

--
To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address:
ae(SPAM_BLOCKER)neas@gw(SPAM_BLOCKER)is.com


"Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c2afvk12fbu@enews2.newsguy.com... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:gm22c.22760$aT1.155@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... and, why would you do that? "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people
tell me *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo I think the her 'shopping list' is fine as long as she's getting the occassional hit from it. She's not going for dozens of guys. She's going
for one. If she's got a dozen guys calling her, she (and most other people)
are going to have to choose somehow and that is where these 'standards' kick
in. Only if she has no one calling her does she really have the need to lower her standards. It's sort of like getting a job. If you have dozens of offers then your criteria (pay and maybe some other things) is too low. You're only going
to go to have one job so why not pick the best one? Have a great weekend! Brad

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mlsmgnqibv.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes: I didn't see it that way. You said this: Ron said: "If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say
she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a
Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could
sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you." I just don't agree with that at all. Really, I would find a man with
that type of attitude nothing more than amusing. If you _actually_ find that amusing, then you may be making Ron's point. Amusing is often the first step. If you are amused, you keep talking to someone, and then either discover you have more in common, oryou don't.

When I said amusing I was downplaying my reaction to this type of behavior.
It is a wry amusement. When a guy acts like that I usually start laughing
immediately. Then I end the conversation, or rather, he generally ends the
conversation because I laughed at him. I am not interested in a man who
needs to impress upon me his prowess or his ability to attract other woman,
and that I am only one of a herd to him, no more or less desirous to him
than the next one. I don't treat men that way, and I don't allow myself to
be treated that way by men.
But, that's my right, isn't it? He can simply move down to the next women
and maybe she'll be a taker. Because any man who acts like that isn't
interested in the specific woman anyway, he's just looking for A woman.

Pamela


Not that I find Ron's argument (or Mike's complaint) particularly convincing or compelling.

"Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes:
"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:mlsmgnqibv.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes: I didn't see it that way. You said this: Ron said: "If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep with and she didn't really matter much to you." I just don't agree with that at all. Really, I would find a man with that type of attitude nothing more than amusing. If you _actually_ find that amusing, then you may be making Ron's point. Amusing is often the first step. If you are amused, you keep talking to someone, and then either discover you have more in common, oryou don't. When I said amusing I was downplaying my reaction to this type of behavior. It is a wry amusement. When a guy acts like that I usually start laughing immediately. Then I end the conversation, or rather, he generally ends the conversation because I laughed at him.

Yes, I realize that this might be what you meant. That was why I put
the "actually" in my response.

But what if he _doesn't_ end the conversation? You laugh at him, and
then he continues. Do you walk away, or do you find yourself
continuing to be amused?

People have the characteristics that embody those items.

Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply] wrote: People aren't a list of items. Thanks, Mike -- To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address: ae(SPAM_BLOCKER)neas@gw(SPAM_BLOCKER)is.com "Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:c2afvk12fbu@enews2.newsguy.com... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:gm22c.22760$aT1.155@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... and, why would you do that? "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...> I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell
me> *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo I think the her 'shopping list' is fine as long as she's getting the occassional hit from it. She's not going for dozens of guys. She's going for one. If she's got a dozen guys calling her, she (and most other people) are going to have to choose somehow and that is where these 'standards' kick in. Only if she has no one calling her does she really have the need to lower her standards. It's sort of like getting a job. If you have dozens of offers then your criteria (pay and maybe some other things) is too low. You're only going to go to have one job so why not pick the best one? Have a great weekend! Brad

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o3n06vqgti.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes: "Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:mlsmgnqibv.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> writes: > I didn't see it that way. You said this: > > Ron said: > > "If you wanted to SLEEP with her, you'd have to contradict her, say she's > wrong, and put her on the defensive so she saw you as a Leader and a Real > Man. Also you'd have to make it very clear to her, possibly without > saying it in words, that there were plenty of other women you could sleep > with and she didn't really matter much to you." > > I just don't agree with that at all. Really, I would find a man
with that > type of attitude nothing more than amusing. If you _actually_ find that amusing, then you may be making Ron's point. Amusing is often the first step. If you are amused, you keep talking to someone, and then either discover you have more in common, oryou don't. When I said amusing I was downplaying my reaction to this type of
behavior. It is a wry amusement. When a guy acts like that I usually start
laughing immediately. Then I end the conversation, or rather, he generally ends
the conversation because I laughed at him. Yes, I realize that this might be what you meant. That was why I put the "actually" in my response. But what if he _doesn't_ end the conversation? You laugh at him, and then he continues. Do you walk away, or do you find yourself continuing to be amused?

If he doesn't walk off I will usually politely tell him it was interesting
meeting him and excuse myself. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings by
telling them what I really thought. I think the whole behavior is fueled by
insecurity. A guy who behaves that way and justifies it by some ill
conceived philosophy about woman really feels bad about himself. I do have
compassion for that.

But, you know on the whole I don't find too many men who behave this way.
We are spending alot of time on a behavior that I think it dominent in a
minority of men.

Pamela

Who said they were?

Pamela

"Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply]"
<aen(SPAM-BLOCKER)eas@gwis.com> wrote in message
news:S6udnTXuhbB2V9XdRVn-sA@adelphia.com... People aren't a list of items. Thanks, Mike -- To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address: ae(SPAM_BLOCKER)neas@gw(SPAM_BLOCKER)is.com "Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:c2afvk12fbu@enews2.newsguy.com... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:gm22c.22760$aT1.155@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... and, why would you do that? "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people tell me > *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo I think the her 'shopping list' is fine as long as she's getting the occassional hit from it. She's not going for dozens of guys. She's going for one. If she's got a dozen guys calling her, she (and most other people) are going to have to choose somehow and that is where these 'standards' kick in. Only if she has no one calling her does she really have the need to
lower her standards. It's sort of like getting a job. If you have dozens of offers then your criteria (pay and maybe some other things) is too low. You're only going to go to have one job so why not pick the best one? Have a great weekend! Brad

It is foolish and dangerous not to have some sort of standard for your life.

Pamela

"Bill in Co." <surly_curmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a042c.22899$aT1.12545@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net... People have the characteristics that embody those items. Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply] wrote: People aren't a list of items. Thanks, Mike -- To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address: ae(SPAM_BLOCKER)neas@gw(SPAM_BLOCKER)is.com "Brad Bishop" <bsbishop@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:c2afvk12fbu@enews2.newsguy.com... "Pamela" <Pamela@msnnot.com> wrote in message news:gm22c.22760$aT1.155@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...>> and, why would you do that?>> "surly girl" <surlygirl@att.net> wrote in message> news:d1W1c.74864$aH3.2297147@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...>> I saw your "shopping list" down there and I thought, jeez, people
tell me>> *I* need to relax my "standards." whoooooo I think the her 'shopping list' is fine as long as she's getting the occassional hit from it. She's not going for dozens of guys. She's
going for one. If she's got a dozen guys calling her, she (and most other people)
are going to have to choose somehow and that is where these 'standards'
kick in. Only if she has no one calling her does she really have the need to
lower her standards. It's sort of like getting a job. If you have dozens of offers then your criteria (pay and maybe some other things) is too low. You're only
going to go to have one job so why not pick the best one? Have a great weekend! Brad

Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply] wrote: People aren't a list of items.

And? What's your point?

We recently went through a long thread on ASM about people who have
specific requirements, I guess you'd call them, when it comes to
people they will date. And, no matter what anyone says, *everyone*
has a 'list' that they consult either consciously or subconsciously
when deciding whether or not to date someone, IMO.

Tracey

Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote:
Mike [remove (SPAM-BLOCKER) from my email address to reply] wrote: People aren't a list of items. And? What's your point? We recently went through a long thread on ASM about people who have specific requirements, I guess you'd call them, when it comes to people they will date. And, no matter what anyone says, *everyone* has a 'list' that they consult either consciously or subconsciously when deciding whether or not to date someone, IMO.

That thread was cross-posted to ASD also. Maybe it is something that
comes up there all the time, and we (in ASM) only see it when the thread
is in both places.

Emma Anne wrote:
That thread was cross-posted to ASD also. Maybe it is something that comes up there all the time, and we (in ASM) only see it when the thread is in both places.

Not really. I've been posting/reading to both ASD and ASM for about the
same time. It's not a hot topic there (ASD).

Tracey