Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock
that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a
basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably well
adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls
because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions here,
which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like
Gesell -- let 'em cry.)

Ted

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0401221242.5d006e45@posting.google.c om... With her sister, I discovered the book "The Self-Calmed Baby" which I highly recommend. It provides a more gentle approach - from day 1 - to avoid having to Ferberize at all. Admittedly she is a much different child compared to her sister, but I tend to think that had I discovered this book earlier, I would never have needed Ferber with her sister.

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> writes:
Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably well adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions here, which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like Gesell -- let 'em cry.)

No, he isn't like that at all. You have to read his book, but "let
'em cry" has nothing to do with his approach.

And beyond that, you may have to be in a family where there is a
grumpy child who isn't sleeping well, and two parents who
aren't doing their best parenting because they haven't had enough
sleep to realize that there are cases where allowing some crying to
happen on a short term basis can be good for everyone if it gives the
child a way to sleep well.

We never "Ferberized," but I think his book is great. Really
interesting, and potentially quite useful.

His main observation about sleep is that people wake up regularly
during the night. Young children may not know how to go back to sleep
by themselves, especially if their main experience has been being
nursed or walked to sleep. If you have a child like this, you need to
make a choice between doing whatever it is your child needs to go back
to sleep either until the child learns how to do it on his or her own
(which in occasional cases can take many years, but usually doesn't
take so long), or to try to help your child learn how to do this on
his or her own.

He gives techniques for how to follow this latter course for children
that are at least 6 months old.

"shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c8cb5319.0401221242.5d006e45@posting.google.c om... With her sister, I discovered the book "The Self-Calmed Baby" which I highly recommend. It provides a more gentle approach - from day 1 - to avoid having to Ferberize at all. Admittedly she is a much different child compared to her sister, but I tend to think that had I discovered this book earlier, I would never have needed Ferber with her sister.

And jen, possibly yes. But also kids are just different. Our
daughter was a terrible sleeper for 6 months (not so long I know, but
for her first three months her cycle was:
nurse for one hour.
cry for one hour while one of us tried to comfort her
sleep for one hour
That wasn't just at night, but _always_). Then between 4 and 6 months
she figured out how to be in our world and was great! Slept well,
happy when awake, etc.

And then our son came along and was totally different!

I learned a lot from Ferber, but we never Ferberized. Our daughter
because things got nice all on their own, and our son because he had
long-standing sleep problems, but they turned out to be of a very
different nature (night terrors, which Ferber also discusses, but
aren't about not knowing how to go back to sleep on their own).

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ry7jzjbrkk.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> writes: No, he isn't like that at all. You have to read his book, but "let 'em cry" has nothing to do with his approach.

OK. I was just reacting to pieces of how Jen described the different ways
her two girls were treated. Sorry.

Ted

Yuck on Spock and Ferber -- ROSEMOND is the only one with a clue. :)

amy


Seeker wrote: Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably well adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions here, which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like Gesell -- let 'em cry.) Ted "shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c8cb5319.0401221242.5d006e45@posting.google.c om... With her sister, I discovered the book "The Self-Calmed Baby" which I highly recommend. It provides a more gentle approach - from day 1 - to avoid having to Ferberize at all. Admittedly she is a much different child compared to her sister, but I tend to think that had I discovered this book earlier, I would never have needed Ferber with her sister.

"Seeker" <tedds212removethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bupds0$kbg29$1@ID-123438.news.uni-berlin.de>... Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably well adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions here, which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like Gesell -- let 'em cry.) Ted

Doug already answered this. It's not the same. With that said, do I
notice a difference? It's hard to say because the girls have very
different personalities to begin with. DD11 is definetly an Idealist;
I can't tell with DD9 but she's either a guardian or quite possibly a
Rational (there are equal times when she responds to authority vs
times when she becomes quite obstinate and independent and needs to
figure out things herself). I parent each one a little bit
differently, because they are different.

Since she was a baby, DD11 has always been overly sensitive,
emotional, anxiety-prone, and vulnerable to too much stimulation. As a
baby, she didn't know how to self-soothe and it wasn't until the
Ferber episode that I began to teach her.... I was *also* learning how
to do this for myself!

DD9 OTOH came out of the womb knowing how to self-soothe; from day one
she sucked on her fingers, rarely fussed, was much calmer and content,
less vulnerable to outside stimulation, a more even-keeled temperament
all around. Following the "Self-Calmed Baby" approach, I didn't
discourage this and counted it as a blessing!

DD9 continues to intuitively know what's best for her. She has always
had amazing bodily control (which can be nerve-wracking when she
decides to go on a hunger strike). When she's had enough and starts to
get cranky, she withdraws to veg out or go to bed. She is an
easy-going kid for the most part - she can handle changes to her
routine, but she does it by sticking to her routine as closely as
possible. She is much more self-managing and I respect that.

DD11 OTOH has had to learn all this over time, with coaching from me.
She definetly thrives better on routine and the older she gets, the
more in control of her own routine she becomes. However, she still has
moments when anxiety takes over her and she lets it affect everyone
around her.

As for "letting them cry" or indulging them at every whimper, since
the Ferber episode I've adopted a fine balance between the two. As for
babies, I've learned you do not have to run and respond to every
little whimper; if you wait it out, they will usually find their own
way to self-soothe. But if the whimper becomes a cry, I don't ignore
it - I would go in, reassure, nudge them towards self-soothing, then
leave again. If they continue to cry, repeat. It's a process.

I've also learned with toddlers that is important to teach them from a
young age to be able to entertain themselves and not always need
mommy's undivided attention. You start small - maybe 30 minutes a day
with a 2-year-old - and build from there. At 11 and 9, my two
daughters can play for hours on their own.

It also depends on the situation. I tend to think when kids are cranky
and act out, it is usually an indication they are either 1) hungry or
2) tired. If I deduce this to be the case, then I will address those
two issues first. If they are just being onery, I see it as a bid for
attention and I try for the most part not to fall into that trap.
During the heat of the moment, I don't give them the attention they
are demanding by bad behavior; after the moment is over, I'll try to
prevent further episodes by giving them more attention in quieter
moments.

Finally, I really have to add that I HATE it when adults blame their
parents for everything!!! Sure, parents can screw up and make terrible
mistakes during child-rearing; but by the time you're an adult, you're
fully capable of working past these mistakes yourself, and taking
responsibility for yourself. I remind my girls of this all the time.

Does that answer your question?

jen

I cannot remember Rosemond for sure, but I thought he was a hard core
religious zealot of the children should be seen and not heard, spare the rod
spoil the child school. Am I thinking of the wrong guy?

S
"Amy D" <amykae@joimail.com> wrote in message
news:401092DC.4729AE2C@joimail.com... Yuck on Spock and Ferber -- ROSEMOND is the only one with a clue. :) amy Seeker wrote: Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably
well adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions
here, which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like Gesell -- let 'em cry.) Ted "shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c8cb5319.0401221242.5d006e45@posting.google.c om... With her sister, I discovered the book "The Self-Calmed Baby" which I highly recommend. It provides a more gentle approach - from day 1 - to avoid having to Ferberize at all. Admittedly she is a much different child compared to her sister, but I tend to think that had I discovered this book earlier, I would never have needed Ferber with her sister.

I have no idea, but I did notice a smiley on what Amy wrote -- although it's
more of a grimace.

Ted

"Stephanie Stowe" <stowe@whackthisvsac.org> wrote in message
news:B-ydnZASIsF02YzdRVn-jA@telcove.net... I cannot remember Rosemond for sure, but I thought he was a hard core religious zealot of the children should be seen and not heard, spare the
rod spoil the child school. Am I thinking of the wrong guy? S "Amy D" <amykae@joimail.com> wrote in message news:401092DC.4729AE2C@joimail.com... Yuck on Spock and Ferber -- ROSEMOND is the only one with a clue. :)

"Stephanie Stowe" <stowe@whackthisvsac.org> writes:
I cannot remember Rosemond for sure, but I thought he was a hard core religious zealot of the children should be seen and not heard, spare the rod spoil the child school. Am I thinking of the wrong guy?

That's the guy.

Wrong guy. :)

amy

Stephanie Stowe wrote: I cannot remember Rosemond for sure, but I thought he was a hard core religious zealot of the children should be seen and not heard, spare the rod spoil the child school. Am I thinking of the wrong guy? S "Amy D" <amykae@joimail.com> wrote in message news:401092DC.4729AE2C@joimail.com... Yuck on Spock and Ferber -- ROSEMOND is the only one with a clue. :) amy Seeker wrote: Why when I read this do I think of the contrast between Gesell and Spock that differentiates how *I* was raised (leaving me some kind of a basket-case) and how our kids were raised (both of whom seem reasonably well adjusted.)? Can you tell *now* any difference between your two girls because of using the two different approaches? (From the descriptions here, which I admit I didn't read closely, Ferber sounds an awful lot like Gesell -- let 'em cry.) Ted "shinypenny" <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c8cb5319.0401221242.5d006e45@posting.google.c om... > > With her sister, I discovered the book "The Self-Calmed Baby" which I > highly recommend. It provides a more gentle approach - from day 1 - to > avoid having to Ferberize at all. Admittedly she is a much different > child compared to her sister, but I tend to think that had I > discovered this book earlier, I would never have needed Ferber with > her sister. >

LOL--no, Rosemond is not a religious zeolot.

amy

Doug Anderson wrote: "Stephanie Stowe" <stowe@whackthisvsac.org> writes: I cannot remember Rosemond for sure, but I thought he was a hard core religious zealot of the children should be seen and not heard, spare the rod spoil the child school. Am I thinking of the wrong guy? That's the guy.