The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old
daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up
next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my
head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment.
I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt
terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to
us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband,
at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you
have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in
love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking
about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the
baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and
kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my
life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the
spot.

--Brian

My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me
together right now.

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com... The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.

So let me ask you this. Didn't your wife EVER say things like that to you?
If she didn't why on Earth did you get married in the first place? If she
did say those things to you once, ask yourself what is different NOW about
your lives together? Maybe that is where the problem lies.

It's nice that you are so close to your kids. Of course, they are no
subsitute for a wife. Sometimes you have to make a decision. You chose
kids over a happy marriage. I chose the opposite. I really feel bad for
you Brian. I guess we all make our bed and then have to lie in it.

SD

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:18:50 -0600, "Shashay Doofray"
<Shashay@email.com> wrote:
"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax .com... The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.So let me ask you this. Didn't your wife EVER say things like that to you?If she didn't why on Earth did you get married in the first place? If shedid say those things to you once, ask yourself what is different NOW aboutyour lives together? Maybe that is where the problem lies.It's nice that you are so close to your kids. Of course, they are nosubsitute for a wife. Sometimes you have to make a decision. You chosekids over a happy marriage. I chose the opposite. I really feel bad foryou Brian. I guess we all make our bed and then have to lie in it.SD

No, in all fairness to her, she has never been that kind of person. I
suppose I've just gotten to a point in my life where I realize how
important that is... or at least it is to me.

--Brian

Shashay Doofray wrote: "Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com... The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now. So let me ask you this. Didn't your wife EVER say things like that to you? If she didn't why on Earth did you get married in the first place? If she did say those things to you once, ask yourself what is different NOW about your lives together? Maybe that is where the problem lies. It's nice that you are so close to your kids. Of course, they are no subsitute for a wife. Sometimes you have to make a decision. You chose kids over a happy marriage. I chose the opposite. I really feel bad for you Brian. I guess we all make our bed and then have to lie in it. SD

When you have kids the attention does get divided a bit, that's for sure. It
takes a bit more effort to work on the marriage, I think - to keep it all
together.

Print this out and leave it by your wife's bed.

-Tony

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:43:29 GMT,
Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.


--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

In article <71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com>, Brian wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.

Hi Brian,

I am very happy that you are able to have spiritually close contact
with your kids. This is a blessing regardless of anything else. I am
also very close to my son soul wise and it is a beautiful feeling.

Regarding feeling alone and left out, it is hard to say without
knowing your current situation (I am aware of some past history), but
I think that it's a normal feeling sometimes. We are separate people
and we are not fused with our spouses.

I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot
sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Maybe that's why
your wife faces away from you? Or maybe she was tired?

I just cannot imagine how I could manage with 2 chilren! What if one
starts walking in one direction and another, in another direction. How
could I catch them? What if it is nap time for one and another
interferes or need supervision?

So maybe your wife is also tired of that. You were able to enjoy
closeness during her pregnancy, so maybe your current condition is
temporary.

I just enjoyed a day alone (wife & kid were at grandparents) and I
loved it. It is nice to be free of worry and be able to do whatever I
want once in a great while. I went to a gun range and had a beautiful
time. My first time in about two years. So being alone is not always
bad:)

i

Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way.

Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left
side mystically produces nightmares?

Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:04:56 GMT,
Bill in Co. <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote: Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

It sounds like if he's facing his wife, he has nightmares. Seems like a
mean thing to say to me.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

In article <71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com>, Brian
<jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot.

I think I understand you Brian, although our reasons for being aware of
our loneliness -- for suddenly late in life having moments when we
*weren't* alone -- may be different. I'm not sure that even my
wife's saying that would help (hmmmm, maybe the kiss would., though!)
My wife and I have both come down with horrible colds -- I got mine
about week after she got hers. They are bad enough we were disturbing
each other's sleep, so for most of the past week I've been sleeping
down the hall in an unused bedroom. Tonight when I got my stuff to get
ready for bed she said she missed me sleeping with her. Yes, in a way
that did make me feel good -- but also sad because in all honesty I
couldn't reply in kind, and I'm physically drained enough from the cold
right now to have come up with an appropriate, even if untruthful,
response. (so I said nothing much.)

Ted

In article <slrnbqret4.ib9.tony@callisto.jtan.com>, Tony Miller wrote: On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:04:56 GMT, Bill in Co. <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote: Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically. It sounds like if he's facing his wife, he has nightmares. Seems like a mean thing to say to me. -Tony

If we switched places with my wife, I would have to be facing her. But
since I get up to calm down my son during the night if he wakes up, I
sleep on the side of the son's roob.

i

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<i0mqqvs8p1uvpnqlaus6uahf8q10le2oq2@4ax.com>...
No, in all fairness to her, she has never been that kind of person.

I'm going to guess that at the time you married her, you were
attracted to other important qualities. Can you list three qualities
were you initially attracted to, and why were they important to you at
that time of life?

I suppose I've just gotten to a point in my life where I realize how important that is... or at least it is to me.

Have you expressed this need to her, and explained how it has become
increasingly important to you? Have you given her an opportunity to
try and meet this need? I don't think it's too much to ask your
partner to make an effort once a day to tell you how much they
appreciate you.

jen

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:04:56 GMT, "Bill in Co."
<ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way.Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your leftside mystically produces nightmares?Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

I don't know the scientific terms for it, but my wife could only sleep
on her right side during her pregnancy because of a blood vessel that
becomes constricted. I was in the room when her doctor told her about
this but I wasn't paying enough attention to understand it. Perhaps
Igor has some similar problem. Blood flow is restricted and it causes
a lack of air to the brain? I don't know.. I'm reaching for straws on
this one.

--Brian

Acid reflux.

"Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your
left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

"urf" <urf@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com... Acid reflux.

Could be something like that. It could also be as simple as he tends to get
a crick in his neck when on that side, or that his left ear bothers him a
bit when it is facing down, or his mattress has a sag in it in such place
that the left side is more comfortable than the right. Anything that causes
a minor disturbance in sleep could cause a tendency toward nightmares....
"Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

In article <l5psqvk9hbrjoo9ehv0b5qcf07vacrg3eu@4ax.com>, Brian wrote: On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 02:04:56 GMT, "Bill in Co."<ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote:Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way.Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your leftside mystically produces nightmares?Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically. I don't know the scientific terms for it, but my wife could only sleep on her right side during her pregnancy because of a blood vessel that becomes constricted. I was in the room when her doctor told her about this but I wasn't paying enough attention to understand it. Perhaps Igor has some similar problem. Blood flow is restricted and it causes a lack of air to the brain? I don't know.. I'm reaching for straws on this one.

This does make sense, sure. Could be one of the possible explanations.

i

In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: Acid reflux.

Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to
have it.

Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that
does not involve medication.

i
"Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes:
In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication.

I have reflux problems that I was able to control through dietary
changes for a long time (no citrus, little or no tomato or cheese, and
some other smaller things for me).

It reached a point where this wasn't quite enough though.

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com...
I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband.

I find being a parent is easy whereas being a spouse seems to be a lot of
work.

Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot.

Perhaps you focus too much on what you don't have? The grass is greener...?
Ever tried changing your negative self talk into positive self talk? Instead
of looking at your wife's back and saying to yourself "I feel so alone"
couldn't you say "Gee she is beautiful" or "I am so lucky to have this great
family" or even "Lucky me...I've got both kids on me and she has none"?

Just a thought.

Amy

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 03:02:44 GMT, "Amy Lou" <amylouisa@bigpond.com>
wrote:
"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax .com... I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband.I find being a parent is easy whereas being a spouse seems to be a lot ofwork.Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot.Perhaps you focus too much on what you don't have? The grass is greener...?Ever tried changing your negative self talk into positive self talk? Insteadof looking at your wife's back and saying to yourself "I feel so alone"couldn't you say "Gee she is beautiful" or "I am so lucky to have this greatfamily" or even "Lucky me...I've got both kids on me and she has none"?Just a thought.Amy


Amy --

The times when I do as you suggested... those are the times that gets
me through this.

--Brian

In article <qnyrb.157006$e01.551607@attbi_s02>, Doug Anderson wrote: Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes: In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication. I have reflux problems that I was able to control through dietary changes for a long time (no citrus, little or no tomato or cheese, and some other smaller things for me). It reached a point where this wasn't quite enough though.

Hi Doug, not knowing much about your personal health etc, I can only
comment on what helped me and what helps some others that I heard
about. What helps is to eat less food. As you may know, I went on a
diet 5 months ago, lost 47 lbs in 100 days, and have been maintaining
my weight loss since. Prior to that, acid reflux bothered me a lot,
2-3 times a week. My two diet changes have been, first, eating less,
and second, no junk food and overprepared food.

i

Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes:
In article <qnyrb.157006$e01.551607@attbi_s02>, Doug Anderson wrote: Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes: In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: > Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication. I have reflux problems that I was able to control through dietary changes for a long time (no citrus, little or no tomato or cheese, and some other smaller things for me). It reached a point where this wasn't quite enough though. Hi Doug, not knowing much about your personal health etc, I can only comment on what helped me and what helps some others that I heard about. What helps is to eat less food. As you may know, I went on a diet 5 months ago, lost 47 lbs in 100 days, and have been maintaining

Yeah. If I lost 47 pounds I'd be invisible when I turned sideways!
But it is true that eating a lot contributes to reflux. I don't eat a
lot, but when I overeat, I am more likely to have such problems.

And I bet if I lost 10 pounds (a healthier goal for me than 47) that
would help a bit.
my weight loss since. Prior to that, acid reflux bothered me a lot, 2-3 times a week. My two diet changes have been, first, eating less, and second, no junk food and overprepared food.

Both junk food and overprepared food tend to be quite fatty, which
I've found contribute to reflux. Not as much as the things I listed
(though cheese is also fatty) for me though.

In article <odDrb.4568$aT.3508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Amy Lou
<amylouisa@bigpond.com> wrote:
Perhaps you focus too much on what you don't have?

Someone who is dieing of thirst can't help but focus on water; someone
who is starving to death can't help but focus on food. Are emotional
needs any more easily ignored?

Ted

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 21:01:08 GMT, "Bill in Co."
<ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote:

When you have kids the attention does get divided a bit, that's for sure. Ittakes a bit more effort to work on the marriage, I think - to keep it alltogether.

What the hell would you know about keeping it all together, bill?

On 9 Nov 2003 19:36:11 GMT, Ignoramus26167
<ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> wrote:

By the way, maybe abortion was not that bad idea after all.

Talk about an understatement!!!!

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--Brian

Um, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up...

Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - What
Would Kendricks Do?

In article <WgErb.114004$mZ5.766396@attbi_s54>, Doug Anderson wrote: Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes: In article <qnyrb.157006$e01.551607@attbi_s02>, Doug Anderson wrote: Ignoramus26167 <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> writes:> In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote:> > Acid reflux.>> Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to> have it.>> Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that> does not involve medication. I have reflux problems that I was able to control through dietary changes for a long time (no citrus, little or no tomato or cheese, and some other smaller things for me). It reached a point where this wasn't quite enough though. Hi Doug, not knowing much about your personal health etc, I can only comment on what helped me and what helps some others that I heard about. What helps is to eat less food. As you may know, I went on a diet 5 months ago, lost 47 lbs in 100 days, and have been maintaining Yeah. If I lost 47 pounds I'd be invisible when I turned sideways! But it is true that eating a lot contributes to reflux. I don't eat a lot, but when I overeat, I am more likely to have such problems. And I bet if I lost 10 pounds (a healthier goal for me than 47) that would help a bit.

Quite possibly.
my weight loss since. Prior to that, acid reflux bothered me a lot, 2-3 times a week. My two diet changes have been, first, eating less, and second, no junk food and overprepared food. Both junk food and overprepared food tend to be quite fatty, which I've found contribute to reflux. Not as much as the things I listed (though cheese is also fatty) for me though.

No, I eat maybe more fat now than before, at least I do not try to
restrict my fat. (I do nowever restrict calories in total) No pizza
though.

i

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:28:20 GMT, jdk00@yahoo.com (WWKD) wrote:
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>wrote:Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--BrianUm, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up...Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - WhatWould Kendricks Do?

Hey, Buddy. Had no idea you were still around here. I see you're
still giving it to Bill pretty good.

--Brian

"Ignoramus26167" <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> wrote in message
news:bom53b$2pf$3@pita.alt.net... In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication.

Yes, I do suffer from *Gurd*. I do take medication for it along
with all the advice the doctors can give me. One of my best friends
is a g-i doc and we over-indulged together on Saturday night last.
We did everything wrong. Fried and acidic foods, alcohol and chocolate
and coffee. I know how to control it, it's just so much more fun to live
without restraints such as the ones necessary.

urf wrote: Ignoramus26167 wrote: urf wrote: Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication. Yes, I do suffer from *Gurd*. I do take medication for it along with all the advice the doctors can give me. One of my best friends is a g-i doc and we over-indulged together on Saturday night last. We did everything wrong. Fried and acidic foods, alcohol and chocolate and coffee. I know how to control it, it's just so much more fun to live without restraints such as the ones necessary.

I believe it's GERD; something like gastro-esophageal reflux
disease, and, yes, my life revolves around it too. In my
case it's due to a hiatal hernia.

Now I don't do too many things "right", but some of the wrong
things:

- Caffeine is bad. Now I don't like coffee but I have liked
tea and my Pepsi consumption is sometimes heroically stupid
in this context. So, #1 for me, no caffeine after noon.
- Tomato Sauce seems to correlate. I can't have it in the
evening if I don't want to sleep sitting up in a recliner.
Pizza, for instance, is a BAD idea after 2PM... and only
one slice. Beats me why it's so damn tough.
- Starches (which makes pizza WORSE) are another thing I've
gotten to avoid in the late afternoons.

Not related to GERD but a factor that affects *ME* is that I
am sensitive to lactose so dairy gives me quite a bit of post-
nasal drip, which does NOT help to settle my stomach. Add in
an allergy to albumin and anything cooked with eggs (where
they've not been cooked to death) is contraindicated.

Now I _could_ use plenty of Tagamet or use Prilosec but this
is a long-term thing (of course it's been worse in the last
5 years or so) and I usually try to calm things down with
antacids... but I know that some foods cannot be retained.

So, for me, if I do eat in the evenings, it doesn't amount to
much. My "big meal" daily is lunch. Sadly this is not a
helpful situation since it is difficult to have a big sit-
down meal unless my "schedule" is taken into account. I use
the tagamet at times like that, trying to use 'em sparingly.

Added to all of this GERD stuff is that the referred pain
is commonly linked to symptoms of a cardiac infaction as well.
Since it's mostly digestive, if you DO have cardiac issues
you will not recognize them... and, from a stress test I had
a month or so ago, it looks like I might have had a minor
event of that kind.

(shrugs)

Please note that my efforts have centered on avoidance given
the nature of the problem, but I am not enthusiastic about
being fully compliant: I do "sin" more often than not.

Of course it's also useful to "hide behind" when you want to
avoid something, too. That's also not usually a good idea.

Urf et al, good luck...

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Sure the Belgians invented French Fries, but they managed to pin the blame
for 'em on the French. I bet the first fries looked like waffles. though."

In article <slrnbqvbpp.lb8.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.org>, Jack C Lipton wrote: urf wrote: Ignoramus26167 wrote: urf wrote: > Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication. Yes, I do suffer from *Gurd*. I do take medication for it along with all the advice the doctors can give me. One of my best friends is a g-i doc and we over-indulged together on Saturday night last. We did everything wrong. Fried and acidic foods, alcohol and chocolate and coffee. I know how to control it, it's just so much more fun to live without restraints such as the ones necessary. I believe it's GERD; something like gastro-esophageal reflux disease, and, yes, my life revolves around it too. In my case it's due to a hiatal hernia. Now I don't do too many things "right", but some of the wrong things: - Caffeine is bad. Now I don't like coffee but I have liked tea and my Pepsi consumption is sometimes heroically stupid in this context. So, #1 for me, no caffeine after noon. - Tomato Sauce seems to correlate. I can't have it in the evening if I don't want to sleep sitting up in a recliner. Pizza, for instance, is a BAD idea after 2PM... and only one slice. Beats me why it's so damn tough. - Starches (which makes pizza WORSE) are another thing I've gotten to avoid in the late afternoons. Not related to GERD but a factor that affects *ME* is that I am sensitive to lactose so dairy gives me quite a bit of post- nasal drip, which does NOT help to settle my stomach. Add in an allergy to albumin and anything cooked with eggs (where they've not been cooked to death) is contraindicated. Now I _could_ use plenty of Tagamet or use Prilosec but this is a long-term thing (of course it's been worse in the last 5 years or so) and I usually try to calm things down with antacids... but I know that some foods cannot be retained. So, for me, if I do eat in the evenings, it doesn't amount to much. My "big meal" daily is lunch. Sadly this is not a helpful situation since it is difficult to have a big sit- down meal unless my "schedule" is taken into account. I use the tagamet at times like that, trying to use 'em sparingly. Added to all of this GERD stuff is that the referred pain is commonly linked to symptoms of a cardiac infaction as well. Since it's mostly digestive, if you DO have cardiac issues you will not recognize them... and, from a stress test I had a month or so ago, it looks like I might have had a minor event of that kind. (shrugs) Please note that my efforts have centered on avoidance given the nature of the problem, but I am not enthusiastic about being fully compliant: I do "sin" more often than not. Of course it's also useful to "hide behind" when you want to avoid something, too. That's also not usually a good idea. Urf et al, good luck...

Sorry to hear that.

To me the biggest trigger was pizza. Eat pizza, have heartburn, it was
that simple for me. I hated it so much.

What helped me was baking soda, it could quench heartburn in literally
5 seconds. I am sure that you are aware that baking soda is the
fasterst heartburn reliever.

Anyway, miraculously, after I started working on losing weight and eat
less and eat no crap, heartburn went away.

i

There is a huge difference between BEING alone..and FEELING alone...

Kass


"Ignoramus28586" <ignoramus28586@NOSPAM.28586.invalid> wrote in message
news:bok3dj$h7g$5@pita.alt.net... In article <71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com>, Brian wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now. Hi Brian, I am very happy that you are able to have spiritually close contact with your kids. This is a blessing regardless of anything else. I am also very close to my son soul wise and it is a beautiful feeling. Regarding feeling alone and left out, it is hard to say without knowing your current situation (I am aware of some past history), but I think that it's a normal feeling sometimes. We are separate people and we are not fused with our spouses. I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Maybe that's why your wife faces away from you? Or maybe she was tired? I just cannot imagine how I could manage with 2 chilren! What if one starts walking in one direction and another, in another direction. How could I catch them? What if it is nap time for one and another interferes or need supervision? So maybe your wife is also tired of that. You were able to enjoy closeness during her pregnancy, so maybe your current condition is temporary. I just enjoyed a day alone (wife & kid were at grandparents) and I loved it. It is nice to be free of worry and be able to do whatever I want once in a great while. I went to a gun range and had a beautiful time. My first time in about two years. So being alone is not always bad:) i

In article <71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax.com>,
jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com says... My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you

And there you go. Sounds like she's not real affectionate, therefore
you feel lonely.

--
"Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove
all doubt."

In article <chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.n et>,
ornery1@earthlink.net says... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

Hey, I have nightmares when I get too hot, like when I sweat. I also
have nightmares when I get too cold. It's weird. I seem to have this
10 degree range when I don't have weird dreams.


--
"Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove
all doubt."

whisper wrote: There is a huge difference between BEING alone..and FEELING alone...

Actually, yes, but it's easy to both "be" and "feel" alone even
within a crowd. The key really seems to be who you feel you're
"connected" to... and the connection is intellectual *and* even
emotional. The emotional side need only be an agreement on some
things (like sports team) so that you can feel like a "member of
a herd". Even being able to "talk shop" with someone... like me,
talking shop w/ other greppies, provides a connection.

It is when you do not feel accepted/acceptable (football? is
that anything like soccer?) that loneliness in the midst of a
crowd is possible.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Sure the Belgians invented French Fries, but they managed to pin the blame
for 'em on the French. I bet the first fries looked like waffles. though."

A man wrote: ornery1 says... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares?

Hey, it's true. Consider that the arrangements of your internal
organs is NOT bilaterally symmetrical and there WILL be variable
responses to positions. I get more acid reflux when on my right
side than my left, for instance. If my wife preferred the other
side of the bed my normal position would have been to face her.
Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically. Hey, I have nightmares when I get too hot, like when I sweat. I also have nightmares when I get too cold. It's weird. I seem to have this 10 degree range when I don't have weird dreams.

The facing/not facing a spouse is only a coincidence, though it
is always possible that if you go to bed angry or irritated (I
can attest that this makes my reflux issues worse, BTW) with
your spouse then the discomfort factor will be increased and
perhaps intrude into your dreams.

(shrugs)

I have *heard* about dreams but I don't recall ever really
having dreamt, much less the content thereof, so I have no
idea about discomforts making the jump. Anybody here know?

BTW, what is it like to remember dreaming... or even the contents
of dreams?

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Sure the Belgians invented French Fries, but they managed to pin the blame
for 'em on the French. I bet the first fries looked like waffles. though."

In article <DqPrb.19493$E9.16744@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, whisper
<noway@notnow.com> wrote:
There is a huge difference between BEING alone..and FEELING alone...

Yup. What's especially hard is being with a crowd of people where you
are "supposed" to be feeling not at all alone and realizing in truth
how alone you are -- and that somewhere out in that crowd is probably
somebody who is thinking roughly the same things you are and you have
no chance whatsover of discovering who who or she is.

Ted

In article <slrnbqvi8r.210.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.org>, Jack C
Lipton <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote:
I have *heard* about dreams but I don't recall ever really having dreamt, much less the content thereof, so I have no idea about discomforts making the jump. Anybody here know? BTW, what is it like to remember dreaming... or even the contents of dreams?

I don't know how to answer that question, because the question that
came to my mind was, what does it feel like *never* to have dreamt (or
remember dreaming)?

Seriously, 'though, for me the answer to "what is it like to remember
dreaming" is a lot like the answer to "what is it like to remember
[anything]" -- it depends on what's being remembered and how long
afterwards. I have a handful of dreams over the last half-dozen years
that I remember as clearly (or even more so!) as I remember real
events from the same time -- I can't say there's any special "feeling"
that goes with them, any more than there is a 'feeling" with the events
-- unless I choose to dwell on it. I know that my conscious memory
seems to want to be very efficient -- it tries to remember what (it
thinks) is "important" about what's being remembered, which may or may
not include circumstances surrounding it, but is pretty poor on details
-- and rarely (for it) do the emotions surrounding something seem to be
important. Alas -- because there are times now I wish it were those
emotions I could bring back, not just the mere circumstances.

Ted

Ted, just curious, do you have a "typical nightmare", and if you do,
do you care to share?

i

Brian wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.
I have nothing productive to say and I like you too much to tell you the
unproductive things.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way :(

Cari

--
email:
cari_p at comcast dot net

In article <c8cb5319.0311101048.742cd4f2@posting.google.com>,
shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
I hope you don't think I'm being harsh on you, Brian. Actually, your post here reminded me of myself, back in my first marriage. I also had a long laundry list of complaints and my list frequently changed from one day to the next. I gave my now-ex lots of mixed messages. He ended up running this way and that, trying to make me happy, but I'd just find something else to complain about. Then I realized why: I just didn't want to be married to him, and there was nothing he could do that would make me want to stay with him. I'd just find something else wrong. It's not that I was too demanding or he was a jerk; on the contrary, the relationship just wasn't worth the effort to work on it, and deep down, I knew it. Took me a long while to admit it to myself, though. I felt like such a heel!

Although I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't already posted this and
I've missed or forgotten it, did you ever ask yourself the same
questions you just asked Brian -- what attracted you to him in the
first place, etc? (Yes, as I think I've posted, I have asked myself
those questions and the answers, as best I can remember that long ago,
aren't too encouraging.)

Ted

In article <boop8l$npk$1@pita.alt.net>, Ignoramus6554
<ignoramus6554@NOSPAM.6554.invalid> wrote:
Ted, just curious, do you have a "typical nightmare", and if you do, do you care to share?

I would not say I have a "typical nightmare", and I don't have many.
The most recent dream that comes even close to being a nightmare (in
that the general sense of the dream was negative) was losing my wife in
a large crowd -- but up to the point I lost her it wasn't at all a
nightmare. Others I vaguely remember are finding myself back in
college and not knowing what classes I'd signed up for and/or when and
where they were meeting. As I think back, I'd say that with rare
exceptions (I vaguely remember one in which I was in physical danger in
some isolated hallway or alley) my nightmares all have something to do
with being lost -- not knowing where I was supposed to be or how to get
there. But they are very rare in comparison to the positive dreams
(almost none, by the way, being at all erotic -- which I find
surprising!)

Ted

In article <101120031355547865%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>, Seeker wrote: In article <boop8l$npk$1@pita.alt.net>, Ignoramus6554<ignoramus6554@NOSPAM.6554.invalid> wrote: Ted, just curious, do you have a "typical nightmare", and if you do, do you care to share? I would not say I have a "typical nightmare", and I don't have many. The most recent dream that comes even close to being a nightmare (in that the general sense of the dream was negative) was losing my wife in a large crowd -- but up to the point I lost her it wasn't at all a nightmare. Others I vaguely remember are finding myself back in college and not knowing what classes I'd signed up for and/or when and where they were meeting. As I think back, I'd say that with rare exceptions (I vaguely remember one in which I was in physical danger in some isolated hallway or alley) my nightmares all have something to do with being lost -- not knowing where I was supposed to be or how to get there. But they are very rare in comparison to the positive dreams (almost none, by the way, being at all erotic -- which I find surprising!) Ted

That's cool. Most of my dreams are like movies, some things are
happening and they are interesting. My two nightmares are losing (as
in losing track of not being able to find) my son and being stuck in
some place without ammo and expecting some imminent attack of sorts.

i

BTDT

Kass


"Seeker" <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message
news:101120031226345460%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com... In article <DqPrb.19493$E9.16744@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, whisper <noway@notnow.com> wrote: There is a huge difference between BEING alone..and FEELING alone... Yup. What's especially hard is being with a crowd of people where you are "supposed" to be feeling not at all alone and realizing in truth how alone you are -- and that somewhere out in that crowd is probably somebody who is thinking roughly the same things you are and you have no chance whatsover of discovering who who or she is. Ted

"WWKD" <jdk00@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3faf21c1.112524017@news.cis.dfn.de... On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--Brian Um, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up... Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - What Would Kendricks Do?

Being that you are the Mother Theresa of Usenet, I would say it fits...

what would Kendricks do... I like it :)

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:35:46 -0500, Cari{P} <Cari{P}> wrote:
Brian wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.I have nothing productive to say and I like you too much to tell you theunproductive things.I'm sorry you're feeling this way :(Cari

Thanks, Cari. Sometimes it helps to know people are out there that
take the time to read your posts. =)

How have you been?

--Brian

In article <booql8$r9d$0@pita.alt.net>, Ignoramus6554
<ignoramus6554@NOSPAM.6554.invalid> wrote:
That's cool. Most of my dreams are like movies, some things are happening and they are interesting. My two nightmares are losing (as in losing track of not being able to find) my son and being stuck in some place without ammo and expecting some imminent attack of sorts.

I guess I'd say mine are like movies too -- aren't everyone's? The
only difference with real-life is that I don't know the sequence of
events leading up to whatever's going on. While some have a bit of the
surreal (like flying) to them, most are of ordinary people -- sometimes
people I know, mostly not -- doing usually ordinary things, although
the pace of time and points of view can be confused or confusing. In
some I'm an active participant, in others clearly just an observer.
Almost all the ones I remember long afterwards have a pretty
signifcant message in them, although there a couple I still haven't
figured out what it is!

What's interesting is that I've also had a few pretty strong "visions"
or "waking dreams" (subtle difference) during meditation -- and
looking back the *only* difference in character between them and
similar dreams is knowing that some took place while I was asleep and
some didn't.

Ted

Ignoramus6554 <ignoramus6554@NOSPAM.6554.invalid> writes:
being stuck in some place without ammo and expecting some imminent attack of sorts.

Don'cha just _hate it_ when that happens?

Brian wrote: On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:35:46 -0500, Cari{P} <Cari{P}> wrote:Brian wrote:The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week olddaughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled upnext to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around myhead. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment.I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I feltterribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back tous, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband,at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least youhave kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be inlove with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talkingabout Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with thebaby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs andkiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in mylife." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on thespot.--BrianMy kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping metogether right now.I have nothing productive to say and I like you too much to tell you theunproductive things.I'm sorry you're feeling this way :(Cari Thanks, Cari. Sometimes it helps to know people are out there that take the time to read your posts. =) How have you been? --Brian

I've been pretty peachy, thanks for asking :) DH and I are still having
the occasional threesome with a friend, we're keeping busy, and things
seem to be going well.
Cari

--
email:
cari_p at comcast dot net

oh Brian
my heart goes out to you.
All I can say is, look at yourself, be gentle but really look at
yourself. Don't worry about her, what ever she's got going on is her
stuff. Be honest with yourself, look in your heart, if the woman is
there, then fight like hell....take her face in your hands, tell her you
love her and that you are glad she is in your life...if you've done that
and she's still being cold, then there's more work to do...
I don't know take her out to a beautiful dinner or what ever...just you
and her, sounds like your little ones pretty much run the show in the
love department no? They sleep with you?
I'm not taking sides Bud, I really don't know jake...however I do know
that in the last 2 days, miracles have happened in my life so I say, who
the hell am I to be so special ;)
peace
Sharon

Brian wrote:
The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:07:54 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:28:20 GMT, jdk00@yahoo.com (WWKD) wrote:On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>wrote:Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--BrianUm, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up...Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - WhatWould Kendricks Do?Hey, Buddy. Had no idea you were still around here. I see you'restill giving it to Bill pretty good.--Brian

Hey Brian! Nice to see you again. Hopefully, you are feeling better
about your situation now. I'm glad to see you are still giving that
Bill idiot hell, too.

WWKD

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:04:07 GMT, "JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com>
wrote:
"WWKD" <jdk00@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:3faf21c1.112524017@news.cis.dfn.de... On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--Brian Um, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up... Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - What Would Kendricks Do?Being that you are the Mother Theresa of Usenet, I would say it fits...what would Kendricks do... I like it :)

I guarantee this will result in much more fun and satisfaction than
asking what that Jesus asshole would do... 8-D

WWKD?

"A man" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:boog1n$1gugui$6@ID-185685.news.uni-berlin.de...
I think you should stop, or reduce, doing favors like this for her. She may not appreciate it like you think she does, and it may just deplete your emotional reserves even more. See what happens. To continue these "favors", it may make you feel like you're running in circles.

I agree with this. Doing too much for your spouse and not getting the same
in return can lead to resentment. Um... perhaps it already has?

Amy

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bc1uqvkbfdrjm58j9ig34f5l9cj058rrv4@4ax.com... On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 03:02:44 GMT, "Amy Lou" <amylouisa@bigpond.com> wrote:"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:71eqqv8fpte8vvjmcnfapv9k68fs1hc7v7@4ax .com... I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband.I find being a parent is easy whereas being a spouse seems to be a lot ofwork.Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot.Perhaps you focus too much on what you don't have? The grass is
greener...?Ever tried changing your negative self talk into positive self talk?
Insteadof looking at your wife's back and saying to yourself "I feel so alone"couldn't you say "Gee she is beautiful" or "I am so lucky to have this
greatfamily" or even "Lucky me...I've got both kids on me and she has none"?Just a thought.Amy Amy -- The times when I do as you suggested... those are the times that gets me through this.

That just goes to show how powerful our thoughts are and how controllable
they are. So is it really all that important (that stuff that you believe
you are missing in your relationship) or can you simply erase those negative
thoughts from your mind? That stuff, are you sure that it is really
something attainable (perhaps with another person) or are you obsessing
about an unobtainable dream? I mean are you really lonely or just 'feeling'
lonely because you are thinking about it and going over and over it in you
head and talking yourself into it? Think about it - is your marriage really
that bad or is it just that your self talk is letting you down?

Amy

"Seeker" <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message
news:091120032313214964%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com... In article <odDrb.4568$aT.3508@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Amy Lou <amylouisa@bigpond.com> wrote: Perhaps you focus too much on what you don't have? Someone who is dieing of thirst can't help but focus on water; someone who is starving to death can't help but focus on food. Are emotional needs any more easily ignored?

The point is to think about the positive side of life (or death). Why
choose to be sad when you can choose to be happy?

Amy

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 03:30:32 GMT, sharon <shaza.jn@telus.net> wrote:
oh Brianmy heart goes out to you.All I can say is, look at yourself, be gentle but really look atyourself. Don't worry about her, what ever she's got going on is herstuff. Be honest with yourself, look in your heart, if the woman isthere, then fight like hell....take her face in your hands, tell her youlove her and that you are glad she is in your life...if you've done thatand she's still being cold, then there's more work to do...I don't know take her out to a beautiful dinner or what ever...just youand her, sounds like your little ones pretty much run the show in thelove department no? They sleep with you?I'm not taking sides Bud, I really don't know jake...however I do knowthat in the last 2 days, miracles have happened in my life so I say, whothe hell am I to be so special ;)peaceSharonBrian wrote: The other night, I was in bed with my children. My 3 week old daughter was on my chest sleeping and my 3 year old son was cuddled up next to me, his one had wrapped around his sister, the other around my head. Both of them were sound asleep and I just enjoyed the moment. I felt very lucky for having such beautiful children, but I felt terribly alone. My wife was on the other side of the bed, her back to us, asleep. I love being a parent, but I don't love being a husband, at least not her husband. I have friends who tell me "at least you have kids to go home to." That's right, I do. And I will always be in love with that idea. But it's not the same. Sitting down, talking about Scooby Doo to my 3 year old and getting up all night with the baby is not the same as having someone hold your face in theirs and kiss in a way that makes you feel "God I'm glad I have you in my life." If my wife were to ever do that, I think I would die on the spot. --Brian My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.

Sharon --

I'm not sure how much fight I have left. I've been trying very
hard... for many months now. I've done everything I can think of and
nothing seems to be enough. I'm getting tired at a level I never knew
existed. But thanks..I know where you are coming from and I
appreciate the feedback.

--Brian

Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message news:<101120031339067261%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>... Although I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't already posted this and I've missed or forgotten it, did you ever ask yourself the same questions you just asked Brian -- what attracted you to him in the first place, etc? (Yes, as I think I've posted, I have asked myself those questions and the answers, as best I can remember that long ago, aren't too encouraging.)

I wrote a long response to this last night, the lost it all to an
internal server error; ugh!

Yes, I've probably posted about this in the past. If I ask myself
those questions, there were quite a few things that I was attracted to
that I still appreciate in a mate. For example, my ex's solid family
ties, his deep voice, his work ethic, the belief that he'd never break
my heart... to name a few.

I do relate to Brian's situation because I was in a similar one, only
in reverse: my ex was the responsible one, while I was the carefree
one. Looking back, I can see that I was at a point in my life where I
was tired of striving for a career and was ready to hide out and coast
for awhile. My ex, who prefered a traditional marriage and a SAH wife,
offered that alternative. That was the "deal" we struck. I could be
blissfully ignorant of our finances, and stay at home, while he
worried about the bills and worked long hours achieving his brilliant
(cough, cough) career.

Only I got tired of that deal and my role in it (as Brian is now tired
of the deal he made). When I wanted to change things -- go back to
work, help with the finances -- my ex balked big-time. Turns out he
was not so flexible about balancing out those roles. And that's fine
-- that's his choice and I can't blame him for it.

Now perhaps I could have been happy conceding to his wishes on this,
and learned to accept the way things were, if there hadn't been so
many other negatives to the relationship, things that I didn't know
would be important to me until I lived through a marriage without
them.

jen

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:
My kids need me. I think that's the only thing I have keeping me together right now.

I'm sorry things are still so rough. :-( My main piece of advice would
be to start having fun together. Go out alone together and do the
things you both like. I *know* how tough this is. We have two children
too. I breastfed, and we were broke. But it makes a huge huge
difference. Children, however wonderful, are really draining. When you
are home, even if they are asleep, you are on call at every moment. You
need to get away and enjoy life together, even if only for a few hours a
week.

"Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your
left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically.

I sometimes sleep with a teddy bear to prevent nightmares. It works.
Nightmares are a function of the mind, where mind over matter applies.

"Stephanie and Tim" <stowevtcannedmeatproduct@sover.net> writes:
"Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically. I sometimes sleep with a teddy bear to prevent nightmares. It works. Nightmares are a function of the mind, where mind over matter applies.

But does your teddy bear sleep on its right side or its left side?

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ynekwdig69.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "Stephanie and Tim" <stowevtcannedmeatproduct@sover.net> writes: "Bill in Co." <ornery1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:chhrb.3420$6c3.2372@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net... Ignoramus28586 wrote: > > I sleep on my right side facing away from my wife because I cannot > sleep on my left side, I have nightmares this way. Is this a joke? What kind of BS is this, Igor? Sleeping on your left side mystically produces nightmares? Yeah, right.... Explain that one to me - scientifically. I sometimes sleep with a teddy bear to prevent nightmares. It works. Nightmares are a function of the mind, where mind over matter applies. But does your teddy bear sleep on its right side or its left side?


:)

Stephanie and Tim wrote: I sometimes sleep with a teddy bear to prevent nightmares. It works. Nightmares are a function of the mind, where mind over matter applies.

I've seen that kind of thing make a difference for my wife
and even my youngest daughter. (My wife has had enough RL
events to fuel serious nightmares which she's related to me
on a few occasions.)

Seriously, after seeing the effects on my wife and daughter
that I am glad that I don't seem to dream, for good or ill.

(I know that there'd be something wrong with me if I really
didn't dream, so I realize that I must be *somehow*, but I
would really like to know what is so terribly wrong that all
of my dreams... and the recognition I dreamt at all!... is
being censored from my conscious self.)

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Sure the Belgians invented French Fries, but they managed to pin the blame
for 'em on the French. I bet the first fries looked like waffles. though."

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:28:20 GMT, jdk00@yahoo.com (WWKD) wrote:
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:59:48 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>wrote:Instead of feeling like Ihave a full life with a loving wife and two amazing children, I'msitting here, feeling alone, writing to a bunch of people I have nevermet.--BrianUm, yeah, that does pretty much sum it up...Whenever you find yourself with a difficult dilemma, just ask - WhatWould Kendricks Do?

Ding! (Sound of a light bulb going on).

Last week or so, I've been wondering who this new idiot WWKD is and if
he's another one who's used to trolling soc.men or alt.support.divorce
and got cross-posted by accident.

Back into the killfile with you, slimey name-changing thing!

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:05:24 GMT, "urf" <urf@nospam.com> wrote:
"Ignoramus26167" <ignoramus26167@NOSPAM.26167.invalid> wrote in messagenews:bom53b$2pf$3@pita.alt.net... In article <tt6dnWPb0u-r6DOi4p2dnA@comcast.com>, urf wrote: Acid reflux. Personally, I have not had acid reflux in 5 months, although I used to have it. Do you have acid reflux urf? There may be a simple cure for it that does not involve medication.Yes, I do suffer from *Gurd*. I do take medication for it alongwith all the advice the doctors can give me. One of my best friendsis a g-i doc and we over-indulged together on Saturday night last.We did everything wrong. Fried and acidic foods, alcohol and chocolateand coffee. I know how to control it, it's just so much more fun to livewithout restraints such as the ones necessary.

I'm fond of all of that (well, not a lot of alcohol but I do like to
have a Guinness Stout from time to time), and hot sauce on everything.
The biggest trigger for me is quantity. If I eat too much late at
night (after 8), I'm going to have trouble.

- Randy

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:03:07 GMT, cupasoup@softhome.net (Jack C
Lipton) wrote:BTW, what is it like to remember dreaming... or even the contentsof dreams?

What's it like not to? That's a pretty rare occurrence for me. You
mean you don't even know if you have a recurring dream about being in
your underwear on stage, or trying to find a final exam you're
supposed to take for a course you never knew you were in until today?
I wonder how many recurring dreams the story-telling part of your
brain is wasting on you.

Much of the time a dream is fresh with me as I wake up, at least some
aspect of it. In fact, often (as now -- 5:30 am on a Saturday) it
feels like it's the dream that woke me up. But I have found that if I
try too hard to consciously remember details they'll evaporate.
Instead, there's a process I do that's hard to describe -- laying in
bed, not getting all the way conscious, letting the dream sort of
"wash" over me. After a minute it will all be there.

If you're really interested, there are probably new age-y books out
there that tell you how to recall dreams and keep a dream journal. Get
through all the crystals and nonsense and you'll probably find some
practical advice.

- Randy

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:32:58 GMT, Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>
wrote:Seriously, 'though, for me the answer to "what is it like to rememberdreaming" is a lot like the answer to "what is it like to remember[anything]" -- it depends on what's being remembered and how longafterwards. I have a handful of dreams over the last half-dozen yearsthat I remember as clearly (or even more so!) as I remember realevents from the same time -- I can't say there's any special "feeling"that goes with them, any more than there is a 'feeling" with the events-- unless I choose to dwell on it. I know that my conscious memoryseems to want to be very efficient -- it tries to remember what (itthinks) is "important" about what's being remembered, which may or maynot include circumstances surrounding it, but is pretty poor on details-- and rarely (for it) do the emotions surrounding something seem to beimportant. Alas -- because there are times now I wish it were thoseemotions I could bring back, not just the mere circumstances.

I think the emotions are a very important part of what my mind is
telling me. A lot of my "message" dreams are pretty blatant
knock-you-over-the-head on the capital-M Message. Example: one from a
few months after we were married, over 20 years ago. I was walking
down a street, and I ran into my wife. Only in the dream, I was
married to someone else, and so was she. The meeting was very friendly
and if we talked about anything particular in the dream I don't
remember what it was. What I remember was the emotion, the
overwhelmingly sad feeling that I had destroyed my life by not
marrying her.

Perhaps in real life we were going through one of our first-year
adjustments at the time and I was struggling with what it meant to be
married. Whatever it was, the moral was pretty obvious, and the
emotions were so strong I never forgot the message: You're With The
Right One. My mind actually gave me the chance to experience what it
would be like not being with her, and it was not good.

- Randy

Randy Poe wrote: Jack C Lipton wrote: BTW, what is it like to remember dreaming... or even the contents of dreams? What's it like not to?

I don't think about it normally. My awakenings are...
I have no idea if it'd be different.

When I'm sleeping and not ready to wake up I'm very
difficult to awaken, though, once it's shallow enough
in the morning I'm usually thinking about what to do
that day (assuming I'm trying to lay in bed a bit
longer while listening to my wife snore) or just get
going. Then there's the times I think about finding
ways to *not* do something.

It's usually only when my wife is relating one of her
dreams/nightmares that I wonder what I'm missing. Her
nightmares, however, probably don't help, since those
kinds of experiences are not something I'd look forward
to.

I had a talk with her a few days ago about memory, and
she seemed surprised at how shallow my memory is for
non-technical things, which includes emotional context.
I can usually recall fragments but such recall must
normally be triggered externally. This has not been
a recent problem either; while I believe that most of
my life is really pretty unmemorable it does seem far
easier to recall unpleasant events over pleasant.

I recall reading that dreaming and memory are linked
so _now_ I wonder if there *isn't* something really
wrong with my wiring, or if the "censorship" mechanism
is interfering with the function of long-term memory.

Either that or I'm doomed to very early alzheimers.

(shrugs)

However, I _do_ daydream, so I do have a moderately
functional imagination-- enabling me to write stories.

But uncontrained dreaming? No idea at all. (And all
that talk about "lucid dreaming" doesn't make any sense
to me AT ALL, but, then, Never Been There, Never Done
That.)

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup@softhome.net | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Sure the Belgians invented French Fries, but they managed to pin the blame
for 'em on the French. I bet the first fries looked like waffles. though."

In article <c8cb5319.0311151018.2cfec280@posting.google.com>,
shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
Usually, however, the important thing for him is that he has company, as he doesn't seem to enjoy these things nearly as much without us. So we make an extra effort to go, and it has nothing to do about being indebted. We do it because yes, we *do* want to make him happy, if it's within our power to do so!

I gather then, that just you're being *with* him at these activities
(like the theatre) is enough -- it doesn't matter, I gather, that you
aren't particularly enthusiastic about them. I have little or no
interest in having somebody along just for "company" at some activity I
enjoy -- because for me the biggest enjoyment about some of the things
I like to do is in being able to share them with someone who also
enjoys them. Does that sound weird?

Ted

>Does that sound weird?

It doesn't sound weird as much as it sounds unrealistic,
IMO. Have you ever heard the phrase 'You can tell me what
to do or you can tell me how to do it. You can't tell me
both.' This is the same sort of thing.

Tracey

Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message news:<151120032329307900%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>... In article <c8cb5319.0311151018.2cfec280@posting.google.com>, shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote: Usually, however, the important thing for him is that he has company, as he doesn't seem to enjoy these things nearly as much without us. So we make an extra effort to go, and it has nothing to do about being indebted. We do it because yes, we *do* want to make him happy, if it's within our power to do so! I gather then, that just you're being *with* him at these activities (like the theatre) is enough -- it doesn't matter, I gather, that you aren't particularly enthusiastic about them. I have little or no interest in having somebody along just for "company" at some activity I enjoy -- because for me the biggest enjoyment about some of the things I like to do is in being able to share them with someone who also enjoys them. Does that sound weird?

No, it doesn't sound wierd. And I didn't say that I didn't enjoy these
activities. On the contrary, I do very much. More often, it's a matter
of scheduling and priorities and I may just be tired and prefer to
stay at home. But when I do go, I almost always enjoy. We have very
compatible interests; I feel lucky in that way!

As for my fiance, I'm positive he does not enjoy soccer at all.
Neither do I! For him I think the soccer thing correlates to the
theater thing in that taking the kids to theater is his way of sharing
part of his childhood with them. He wasn't all that athletic as a
child and neither was I; team sports are a totally foreign concept to
us both. I willingly brave the cold windy days because I feel it's
something I missed out on, and I don't want them to miss out on it.

Meanwhile, when he proposes we take the kids to, say, a Gilbert &
Sullivan opera that he's already seen a zillion times before, it's not
so much that he wants to go *yet again* as that he thinks it's
important that kids get exposed to culture (and not just sports).

jen

In article <3FB71C2D.1090205@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
It doesn't sound weird as much as it sounds unrealistic, IMO. Have you ever heard the phrase 'You can tell me what to do or you can tell me how to do it. You can't tell me both.' This is the same sort of thing.

I don't think we're communicating at all!

Three or four years ago a friend of mine drew my attention to the fact
that a favorite spiritual singer of ours was coming to town -- and we
arranged with our spouses to make a foursome of going to the concert.
It turns out her husband came up with a conflict a few weeks before the
concert and so they had to cancel out. I was most unhappy -- I
wanted to go to the concert with someone I knew would really appreciate
it. (My wife thinks the singer is OK, but isn't ecstatic about her.)
So, I decided to ask another friend of mine and her boyfriend to come
along with us instead. We had a great evening. The concert had me in
tears all evening it was so moving. When we parted in my driveway I
said to my friend, "Thanks for coming. I needed to share that with
someone." She gave me a big hug and said, "I understand. Thanks for
inviting me." And she did understand, and that's why I invited her.

Do you (and Jen) understand?

Ted

In article <c8cb5319.0311160919.78040f19@posting.google.com>,
shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
As for my fiance, I'm positive he does not enjoy soccer at all. Neither do I! For him I think the soccer thing correlates to the theater thing in that taking the kids to theater is his way of sharing part of his childhood with them. He wasn't all that athletic as a child and neither was I; team sports are a totally foreign concept to us both. I willingly brave the cold windy days because I feel it's something I missed out on, and I don't want them to miss out on it. Meanwhile, when he proposes we take the kids to, say, a Gilbert & Sullivan opera that he's already seen a zillion times before, it's not so much that he wants to go *yet again* as that he thinks it's important that kids get exposed to culture (and not just sports).

See my response to Tracey -- I don't think we're talking about the same
thing. I am talking about a situation where a joyful experience is
made all that much more joyful by being able to share it with someone
who feels roughly the same about it as you do -- and where *not* being
able to share it so detracts from the experience you'd almost rather
not go than go alone. I think I've referred to the movie Contact
before -- if I were the Jodie Foster character and had known what I was
going to encounter, I would almost rather not have gone than have gone
knowing there was no way I could share it with someone else. True
loneliness is watching a beautiful sunset in the sole company of a
blind man.

Ted

>Do you (and Jen) understand?

Do I understand that there are things you wish to
share with someone that appreciates them just as
much as you do? Yes, I do. I'm also getting the
message that you want your wife to be that person
*but she just doesn't appreciate the things you
do as much as you do.* You can't *make* her appreciate
them the way you do and, in that case, why isn't
the fact that she's willing to go with you, enjoy
being with you, enjoy it to the extent that she
does not enough for you?

Tracey

shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
He sheepishly agreed. Then as we talked some more, what came out was a huge hidden pile of resentment. I had no idea he was upset about this, but he felt that even though he went to all this trouble and put aside his own projects to attend these games, often when there was something he wanted to do with us on the weekends (like take the kids to see a play), we didn't want to go, or weren't enthusiastic about going!!!! So he had this hidden motive: "If I go to the soccer games, they're all indebted to accompany me to the theater."

*Excellent* example. My H is the one who tends not to ask for what he
wants, so I ask him, a lot.

Randy Poe <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:
My mind actually gave me the chance to experience what it would be like not being with her, and it was not good.

After reading this, I sat here and thought about how I'd feel if I
hadn't married my H. Wow. Powerful.

Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message news:<161120032338450319%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>... In article <3FB71C2D.1090205@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote: It doesn't sound weird as much as it sounds unrealistic, IMO. Have you ever heard the phrase 'You can tell me what to do or you can tell me how to do it. You can't tell me both.' This is the same sort of thing. I don't think we're communicating at all! Three or four years ago a friend of mine drew my attention to the fact that a favorite spiritual singer of ours was coming to town -- and we arranged with our spouses to make a foursome of going to the concert. It turns out her husband came up with a conflict a few weeks before the concert and so they had to cancel out. I was most unhappy -- I wanted to go to the concert with someone I knew would really appreciate it. (My wife thinks the singer is OK, but isn't ecstatic about her.) So, I decided to ask another friend of mine and her boyfriend to come along with us instead. We had a great evening. The concert had me in tears all evening it was so moving. When we parted in my driveway I said to my friend, "Thanks for coming. I needed to share that with someone." She gave me a big hug and said, "I understand. Thanks for inviting me." And she did understand, and that's why I invited her. Do you (and Jen) understand? Ted

Yeah - I'd never want to invite my fiance along to get our nails done!
I'd take my girlfriend or my daughters!

Though I might think he'd enjoy the experience as much as I do, I'm
pretty certain he'd never admit he did and just roll his eyes and
crack nervous jokes the whole time. No matter how good a manicure or
pedicure might feel to him, it'd be outweighed by the embarrassment
he'd feel at being put in such a situation.

Likewise, I find shopping at Home Depot to be the most torturous
activity imaginable. Every time I walk into that store, my eyes start
to itch. He can spend hours in there; within 1/2 hour my feet start to
get sore from walking on concrete. Plus I find the lighting annoying,
and of course the whole concept makes me feel completely ignorant.

We love each other too much to expect the other person to endure such
things! When he comes home with a gleam in his eye and a car trunk
stuffed with bags of gravel, I am happy for him. When I come home with
shiny pink nails and a serene smile on my face, he is happy for me. I
"get" why he likes Home Depot; he "gets" why I like manicures. But
that doesn't mean it's necessary to subject each other to these
interests.

jen

In article <3FB873E3.7050403@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
Do you (and Jen) understand? Do I understand that there are things you wish to share with someone that appreciates them just as much as you do? Yes, I do.

<snip>
in that case, why isn't the fact that she's willing to go with you, enjoy being with you, enjoy it to the extent that she does not enough for you?

Your second sentence says that you *don't* understand, for then you
would understand why it isn't enough.

Ted

In article <c8cb5319.0311171326.1ceacfc4@posting.google.com>,
shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote:
We love each other too much to expect the other person to endure such things! When he comes home with a gleam in his eye and a car trunk stuffed with bags of gravel, I am happy for him. When I come home with shiny pink nails and a serene smile on my face, he is happy for me. I "get" why he likes Home Depot; he "gets" why I like manicures. But that doesn't mean it's necessary to subject each other to these interests.

I don't know if you like to dance. Let's suppose you don't -- let's
suppose you've tried it many times, many different styles, in many
different settings, with many different instructors -- and you just
don't like it. Suppose your fiance does, and it is very important to
him -- would you be happy for him to go dancing with somebody else,
coming back with a serene smile? (I"m not saying I like to dance, but
just using that as an example. To tell the truth, I think I would
like to dance very much -- just never have for a long, long time, long
before I had any self-confidence.)

(I'm sorry I took so long in responding, but the leap from the
activities I want to share with someone and manicures and Home Depot
was a bit far to bridge at first...)

Ted

Your second sentence says that you *don't* understand,for then you would understand why it isn't enough.

I do understand, Ted, I understand that your wife is not
the person you want her to be and nothing will satisfy
you until she totally remakes herself to be the mirror
image of your perfect woman.

Honestly? I hope she realizes that you don't want to
be in a relationship with *her*, you want to be in a
relationship with someone else and it's up to her to
make all those changes and dumps your ***.

Tracey

In article <3FBDA683.4020203@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
I do understand, Ted, I understand that your wife is not the person you want her to be and nothing will satisfy you until she totally remakes herself to be the mirror image of your perfect woman.

Nope. You don't understand.

Ted

In article <3FBDA683.4020203@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:
I do understand, Ted, I understand that your wife is not the person you want her to be and nothing will satisfy you until she totally remakes herself to be the mirror image of your perfect woman.
No, you don't understand.
Honestly? I hope she realizes that you don't want to be in a relationship with *her*, you want to be in a relationship with someone else and it's up to her to make all those changes and dumps your ***.

That's be liking saying Jen and her fiance should part because she
doesn't like going to Home Depot and he doesn't like watching her get
her nails done.

Ted

Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message news:<201120032331024214%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>... In article <c8cb5319.0311171326.1ceacfc4@posting.google.com>, shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote: We love each other too much to expect the other person to endure such things! When he comes home with a gleam in his eye and a car trunk stuffed with bags of gravel, I am happy for him. When I come home with shiny pink nails and a serene smile on my face, he is happy for me. I "get" why he likes Home Depot; he "gets" why I like manicures. But that doesn't mean it's necessary to subject each other to these interests. I don't know if you like to dance. Let's suppose you don't -- let's suppose you've tried it many times, many different styles, in many different settings, with many different instructors -- and you just don't like it. Suppose your fiance does, and it is very important to him -- would you be happy for him to go dancing with somebody else, coming back with a serene smile? (I"m not saying I like to dance, but just using that as an example. To tell the truth, I think I would like to dance very much -- just never have for a long, long time, long before I had any self-confidence.) (I'm sorry I took so long in responding, but the leap from the activities I want to share with someone and manicures and Home Depot was a bit far to bridge at first...) Ted

I am the jealous type. I'd probably learn to enjoy dancing! But I'm
also fairly certain that my fiance -- realizing how jealous I am and
touched that I would try to enjoy dancing for him -- would insist that
dancing with others was not important, that he could forgo it for the
sake of our relationship.
We'd probably go several absurdly polite rounds on this ("No, I insist
I go dancing with you! No, I insist we never dance again!"). That's
how we are on a lot of things.

It's an interesting analogy, actually. You see, I LOVE dancing. My
fiance likes to dance, too, but he's really bad at it (hope he doesn't
read this!). He always wants to take me dancing because he knows I
love it. He's not good but he likes to see me happy. I have had to
learn not to cringe when he steps on my feet, and instead to enjoy the
fact that he tries so hard! He enjoys it because I enjoy it. And yes,
we often take another couple along with us. They have had lessons and
are excellent dancers. He will give me up for a dance or two, and our
friend and I will tear up the floor together.

My first husband was also a lousy dancer. He also made a lot of effort
to take me dancing anyway. He rarely complained about it. He was eager
to learn and see me happy. The difference, however, was that when it
came right down to it, I just didn't want to dance with HIM. No matter
how good he became! While he didn't complain, behind his back I
complained to my friends about how lousy he was and how much I missed
dancing!!

Since we divorced he took lessons on his own (that's how he met his
wife) and he's apparently very good. Doesn't matter. I just didn't
want to dance with him. His inability to dance well was just another
excuse I could point to. I saw it as more proof that we were
incompatible, that we had "bad chemistry." If we could dance well
together, that would indicate good chemistry, right?


jen

Ted, I apologize for that post. I was in a really bad
mood last night, I've been feeling like I haven't been
'heard' by a lot of people over the past week or so
and one more person not 'hearing' what I was trying
to get across to them sent me over the edge. But that
still doesn't excuse me sending the post.

I *do* understand the DESIRE to have someone who shares
the same emotions that we have about a specific thing
that we feel deeply about. You saying I don't is, IMO,
only yet another attempt to put your problems in your
marriage on a higher, deeper plane than the problems
that we people with less emotional depth experience in
our own marriages. A way to discount what we have done
to fix or minimize these problems.

You classify many things as a 'need', which place them
in the category of 'My wife has to fill these needs for
me to be happy' that other people classify as 'desires'.
And that is your prerogative. But when you classify them
as a 'need', you are trapping not only your wife but
yourself. You're trapping your wife because some of the
things you have classified as 'needs' requires her to
feel certain emotions and that's not something that one
can control. You're trapping yourself because now you're
never going to be satisfied.

That's be liking saying Jen and her fiance should partbecause she doesn't like going to Home Depot and hedoesn't like watching her get her nails done.

No, it's light years apart. Jen is not tell her fiance
that he must go watch her get her nails done and be
enthusiastic about it or she will never be happy and
her fiance is not telling her she must go Home Depot
and be excited about it or he will never be happy. You,
OTOH, are saying that to us, if not to your wife.

This is from another post:

I don't know if you like to dance. Let's suppose youdon't -- let's suppose you've tried it many times,many different styles, in many different settings,with many different instructors -- and you justdon't like it. Suppose your fiance does, and it isvery important to him -- would you be happy for him togo dancing with somebody else, coming back with a serenesmile?

No, I wouldn't, at least not as any sort of 'date' sort
of thing. And this comes back to the basic difference
between you and me (and you and a lot of folks, based
on the exchange of posts over the last couple of years.)
I'll channel you for a minute and give what you probably
feel about it (based on other similar situations that
you have faced and how you handled them.)

Ted: I need to go dancing and I need to have a dance
partner who shares my love of dancing. You (my wife)
must share that same love of dancing or I'll go find
someone else to dance with who does because it does
nothing for me to have you go with me if you don't
have the same emotional reaction to the experience as
I do.

Me: I don't particularly like dancing all that much,
I can take it or leave. But, since you, my husband,
enjoy it so much, I'm perfectly happy to go dancing
with you regularly and dance with you and, while my
dancing isn't doing much for me emotionally, the fact
that you are so happy while you're dancing makes me
happy.

And this difference between us, Ted, is the source of
much of my frustration with you. You have many issues
in your marriage that are legitimate issues, there are
many things about your wife that she should probably
look into changing because those changes will, most
likely, make her much happier overall and will defi-
nitely make you happier. BUT, your insistence that
you need things from her that would require her to
totally change the way she thinks and feels to the
point where she wouldn't even be the same person she
is now is so unrealistic of you and so unfair to her.

Do you think that our spouse is obligated to fill our
each and every 'need' in the exact way that we feel
they need to be filled? I don't. I think it's presump-
tuous of me to believe that and I think that I would
be extremely foolish if I were to expect that. I won't
deny that I believe it's something to shoot for, but
to say 'I will never be happy until you do' is just
emotional blackmail of the worst kind and a way to
avoid taking responsibility for the state of your
marriage.

Tracey

In article <3FBE419F.2060805@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com>
wrote:

Tracey -- I'm going to only comment on this part right now
(the rest will take longer than I have at the moment.)
Do you think that our spouse is obligated to fill our each and every 'need' in the exact way that we feel they need to be filled? I don't. I think it's presump- tuous of me to believe that and I think that I would be extremely foolish if I were to expect that. I won't deny that I believe it's something to shoot for, but to say 'I will never be happy until you do' is just emotional blackmail of the worst kind and a way to avoid taking responsibility for the state of your marriage.

If you have interpreted what I've written as saying that I feel my wife
is obligated to fill each and every need of mine, then I need to
re-examine my ability to write. I do not know what needs of mine need
to be satisfied, and by whom, for me to be happy -- how can I possibly
know that: they've never been satisfied, except briefly by others or
in fantasy. I have to trust we will learn jointly how she can satisfy
some of them. I fear greatly, however, that there are some she won't
be able to and that at the least it will be impractical for someone
else to -- and the fear of that interferes with even trying to work on
the rest

Ted

Seeker <anon-30263@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message news:<211120032332537507%anon-30263@anon.twwells.com>... In article <3FBE419F.2060805@aol.com>, Tracey <rbrancher2@aol.com> wrote: Tracey -- I'm going to only comment on this part right now (the rest will take longer than I have at the moment.) Do you think that our spouse is obligated to fill our each and every 'need' in the exact way that we feel they need to be filled? I don't. I think it's presump- tuous of me to believe that and I think that I would be extremely foolish if I were to expect that. I won't deny that I believe it's something to shoot for, but to say 'I will never be happy until you do' is just emotional blackmail of the worst kind and a way to avoid taking responsibility for the state of your marriage. If you have interpreted what I've written as saying that I feel my wife is obligated to fill each and every need of mine, then I need to re-examine my ability to write. I do not know what needs of mine need to be satisfied, and by whom, for me to be happy -- how can I possibly know that: they've never been satisfied, except briefly by others or in fantasy.


But Ted, you *do* know! On the other thread you wrote:

"The times I have been truly happy are when someone has
unexpectedly smiled at me, or said they enjoyed my company, or shared
a
deeply personal emotional or spiritual experience with me. In short,
it is experiencing that I am loved that makes me happy."

So you *do* know what needs of yours need to be satisfied -- it's the
"by whom" part you're having trouble with!

When you wife unexpectedly smiles at you, are you truly happy?

When your wife says she enjoyed your company, are you truly happy?

When your wife shares a deeply personal emotional or spiritual
experience with you, are you truly happy?

jen