"whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes:
and how did you do it?.. what did you do with the kids? and other external forces? We are in need of similar time together.. but its trying to FIND the time that is proving difficult..

Can't answer for Randy. I forget how old your kids are (if you've
ever said).

When we schedule time to be together it is usually in the evenings.
Our kids are asleep, or 'confined' to quiet activities in their rooms
by 8:30 or 9. So we have potentially a couple hours at that point,
but only if we schedule in advance. Otherwise one or the other of us
is likely to have work, or just be engrossed in a book, or something.

Occasionally we schedule time during the day on weekends by getting
parents of our kids friends to watch them for a while. Then we might
go out and do some exercise thing together (bike riding or something
like that).

Of course how you deal with the kids depends on their age and whether
the need is for someone to take care of them, or just for them to
leave you alone. Our kids get the "parenting ends at 9pm except for
emergencies" idea pretty well at this point. They weren't so clear on
it when they were 6 months old!

In our case, we can both make the time if we agree to do so in
advance at a specific time (usually). But sometimes it is important
to plan it in advance.

the kids are 2, 13 and 17

17 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus transportation
other than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and plays
sports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H..
but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go to
sleep until 10 most nights...


"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mullre76pg.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes: and how did you do it?.. what did you do with the kids? and other
external forces? We are in need of similar time together.. but its trying to FIND the
time that is proving difficult.. Can't answer for Randy. I forget how old your kids are (if you've ever said). When we schedule time to be together it is usually in the evenings. Our kids are asleep, or 'confined' to quiet activities in their rooms by 8:30 or 9. So we have potentially a couple hours at that point, but only if we schedule in advance. Otherwise one or the other of us is likely to have work, or just be engrossed in a book, or something. Occasionally we schedule time during the day on weekends by getting parents of our kids friends to watch them for a while. Then we might go out and do some exercise thing together (bike riding or something like that). Of course how you deal with the kids depends on their age and whether the need is for someone to take care of them, or just for them to leave you alone. Our kids get the "parenting ends at 9pm except for emergencies" idea pretty well at this point. They weren't so clear on it when they were 6 months old! In our case, we can both make the time if we agree to do so in advance at a specific time (usually). But sometimes it is important to plan it in advance.

oh and my mom baby-sits for me during the week when I work.. so I hate to
ask her,,to watch him in the evenings or weekends..

my older two used to go to their dads every other weekend.. but he moved to
another state.. so now they are home every weekend..

If we want time to ourselves.. we may need to get a hotel!..LOL.. but that
cost money.. something that we don't seem to have enough of these days

Kass
"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mullre76pg.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes: and how did you do it?.. what did you do with the kids? and other
external forces? We are in need of similar time together.. but its trying to FIND the
time that is proving difficult.. Can't answer for Randy. I forget how old your kids are (if you've ever said). When we schedule time to be together it is usually in the evenings. Our kids are asleep, or 'confined' to quiet activities in their rooms by 8:30 or 9. So we have potentially a couple hours at that point, but only if we schedule in advance. Otherwise one or the other of us is likely to have work, or just be engrossed in a book, or something. Occasionally we schedule time during the day on weekends by getting parents of our kids friends to watch them for a while. Then we might go out and do some exercise thing together (bike riding or something like that). Of course how you deal with the kids depends on their age and whether the need is for someone to take care of them, or just for them to leave you alone. Our kids get the "parenting ends at 9pm except for emergencies" idea pretty well at this point. They weren't so clear on it when they were 6 months old! In our case, we can both make the time if we agree to do so in advance at a specific time (usually). But sometimes it is important to plan it in advance.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:26:58 GMT, "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote:
the kids are 2, 13 and 1717 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus transportationother than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and playssports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H..but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go tosleep until 10 most nights...

Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old.

If there is really absolutely zero time during the week when this can
happen, you need to rework your week. If the driving of the
17-year-old is taking literally every free moment, try to find a
carpool on one of those nights, at least in one direction.

It won't happen unless you raise the priority level. Make yourself
believe that somebody is holding a gun to your head unless you find 2
hours a week you can commit to, right now. Is this problem so
insoluble that you would die rather than find a solution?

If that doesn't do it, raise the stakes: it's Martians, and they will
kill every single person on earth unless you come up with an answer.
Can you do it now? Or are we all screwed?

- Randy

"whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes:
the kids are 2, 13 and 17 17 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus transportation other than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and plays sports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H.. but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go to sleep until 10 most nights...

5 days a week sports transportation for a 17 year old! Yikes. Well,
I guess that is why I don't want to live in the boonies. If I were in
your situation with respect to that, I think I'd say to my 17 year
old: 5 evenings a week transportation is too much for us. We're
willing to commit to, say, 3 nights, and for the rest of the time
you'll have to find rides, maybe stay after school one night a week
and sleep over at a friend's, whatever.

You do realize that you have some choices about when your 2 year old
goes to sleep. I'm not saying that letting him stay up until 10 (at
which point you and your cara sposa may be exhausted) is neccessarily
the wrong thing to do, but be cognizant of the fact that it is
something you are choosing when there are other options.

I say this as a parent of two children who gave us a very rough time
with the whole sleep thing.

Doug

"Randy Poe" <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nidbpvsvn7n3t93t226001abpeoe0471ut@4ax.com...
It won't happen unless you raise the priority level. Make yourself believe that somebody is holding a gun to your head unless you find 2 hours a week you can commit to, right now. Is this problem so insoluble that you would die rather than find a solution? If that doesn't do it, raise the stakes: it's Martians, and they will kill every single person on earth unless you come up with an answer. Can you do it now? Or are we all screwed?

I use these kinds of analogies when trying to show the difference between
"can't" and "don't want to". It tends to cut through the bull****.

JWB

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:45:41 -0400, Randy Poe
<rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:
Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old.

Sure way to make your 13 year grow up not wanting kids. But thanks to
whoever gave that suggestion to Blue's parents, I do appreciate it.

Tara

I love this post.

Roger Ebert and I give it to thumbs up.



"Randy Poe" <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nidbpvsvn7n3t93t226001abpeoe0471ut@4ax.com... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:26:58 GMT, "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote:the kids are 2, 13 and 1717 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus
transportationother than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and playssports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H..but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go
tosleep until 10 most nights... Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old. If there is really absolutely zero time during the week when this can happen, you need to rework your week. If the driving of the 17-year-old is taking literally every free moment, try to find a carpool on one of those nights, at least in one direction. It won't happen unless you raise the priority level. Make yourself believe that somebody is holding a gun to your head unless you find 2 hours a week you can commit to, right now. Is this problem so insoluble that you would die rather than find a solution? If that doesn't do it, raise the stakes: it's Martians, and they will kill every single person on earth unless you come up with an answer. Can you do it now? Or are we all screwed? - Randy

"whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote in message news:<GFglb.13831$Y1.13140@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>... oh and my mom baby-sits for me during the week when I work.. so I hate to ask her,,to watch him in the evenings or weekends.. my older two used to go to their dads every other weekend.. but he moved to another state.. so now they are home every weekend.. If we want time to ourselves.. we may need to get a hotel!..LOL.. but that cost money.. something that we don't seem to have enough of these days Kass

How much does it cost to put a lock on your bedroom door? It's not
going to kill your kids or psychologically damage them to know that
mom and dad like to enjoy each others' company, alone, with the
bedroom door closed! Yes, the 2-year-old is too young to go
unsupervised, but you have older kids who can watch him for an hour
each day.

As I said earlier, my parents, happily married for over 40 years,
always made it a priority to spend an hour together behind a locked
bedroom door, after my dad got home from work and before we sat down
to dinner. And yes, we were very young. We knew if we knocked it had
better be because the house was burning down or someone was dying.
LOL!

I never once felt neglected or anything like that. On the contrary, I
felt very safe, because I had two parents who loved each other very
much. And still do!

jen

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:csfzhm6vxf.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes: the kids are 2, 13 and 17 17 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus
transportation other than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and
plays sports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in
4-H.. but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go
to sleep until 10 most nights... 5 days a week sports transportation for a 17 year old! Yikes. Well, I guess that is why I don't want to live in the boonies. If I were in your situation with respect to that, I think I'd say to my 17 year old: 5 evenings a week transportation is too much for us. We're willing to commit to, say, 3 nights, and for the rest of the time you'll have to find rides, maybe stay after school one night a week and sleep over at a friend's, whatever.

In this case wonder if it would help to teach the 17 year old to drive.

On 21 Oct 2003 21:53:16 -0700,
shinypenny <shinypenny0001@yahoo.com> wrote: "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote in message news:<GFglb.13831$Y1.13140@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>... oh and my mom baby-sits for me during the week when I work.. so I hate to ask her,,to watch him in the evenings or weekends.. my older two used to go to their dads every other weekend.. but he moved to another state.. so now they are home every weekend.. If we want time to ourselves.. we may need to get a hotel!..LOL.. but that cost money.. something that we don't seem to have enough of these days Kass How much does it cost to put a lock on your bedroom door? It's not going to kill your kids or psychologically damage them to know that mom and dad like to enjoy each others' company, alone, with the bedroom door closed! Yes, the 2-year-old is too young to go unsupervised, but you have older kids who can watch him for an hour each day.

We found that out early. Our bedroom door is the only one with a lock on
it. And we have a Marriage Encounter banner we were given (made of felt
with a stick through it and string on it) that we hang on the bedroom door
when we want the kids to "leave us alone". You can do the same think with
one of those "do not disturb" door hangers you find in hotels.
As I said earlier, my parents, happily married for over 40 years, always made it a priority to spend an hour together behind a locked bedroom door, after my dad got home from work and before we sat down to dinner. And yes, we were very young. We knew if we knocked it had better be because the house was burning down or someone was dying. LOL!

We say: "Someone better be puking of bleeding." :)
I never once felt neglected or anything like that. On the contrary, I felt very safe, because I had two parents who loved each other very much. And still do!

And the kids are learning a valuable lesson.
jen

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

Teaching him to drive creates a whole other situation.. paying for the
insurance..

Kass
"Joy" <fairly_happy_doesn't_need_any_more_spam@withoutspa myahoo.com> wrote
in message news:1xulb.27967$W77.21847@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. "Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:csfzhm6vxf.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes: the kids are 2, 13 and 17 17 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus transportation other than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and plays sports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H.. but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't
go to sleep until 10 most nights... 5 days a week sports transportation for a 17 year old! Yikes. Well, I guess that is why I don't want to live in the boonies. If I were in your situation with respect to that, I think I'd say to my 17 year old: 5 evenings a week transportation is too much for us. We're willing to commit to, say, 3 nights, and for the rest of the time you'll have to find rides, maybe stay after school one night a week and sleep over at a friend's, whatever. In this case wonder if it would help to teach the 17 year old to drive.

Carpooling.. has worked out for soccer.. this year.. but 99% of the time no
one else around us is going in the same direction at the same time..<S>

My kids go to a small school (less than 250 in the 9-12grades)...


We may have to try the door lock thing.. our door does have a lock on it...
we do use it at night sometimes..but we are still working on the 2 yr old to
sleep all night in his own bed...


Kass

"Randy Poe" <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nidbpvsvn7n3t93t226001abpeoe0471ut@4ax.com... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:26:58 GMT, "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote:the kids are 2, 13 and 1717 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus
transportationother than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and playssports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in 4-H..but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go
tosleep until 10 most nights... Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old. If there is really absolutely zero time during the week when this can happen, you need to rework your week. If the driving of the 17-year-old is taking literally every free moment, try to find a carpool on one of those nights, at least in one direction. It won't happen unless you raise the priority level. Make yourself believe that somebody is holding a gun to your head unless you find 2 hours a week you can commit to, right now. Is this problem so insoluble that you would die rather than find a solution? If that doesn't do it, raise the stakes: it's Martians, and they will kill every single person on earth unless you come up with an answer. Can you do it now? Or are we all screwed? - Randy

LOL yea she has already said its cured her of wanting kids now..<G>

she also hits us with the "he isn't MY responsibility.. I didn't have him"
scenario at times when she doesn't want to watch him.. ahh the joy of 13yr
old girl!!!


Kass
"Tara D" <manderly@eol.ca> wrote in message
news:sbpbpvcvsjqvujbd3843fp3bojsot322hi@4ax.com... On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:45:41 -0400, Randy Poe <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old. Sure way to make your 13 year grow up not wanting kids. But thanks to whoever gave that suggestion to Blue's parents, I do appreciate it. Tara

Again there are no "rides" in our area.. Practices are usually right after
school.. they have a 4 day school week this year go from 8AM until 4:10PM..
the catch the school bus at 7:45 and get home around 4:45

soccer is now over.. basketball starts in a week...haven't got that practice
schedule yet.. but its usually a lot "rougher" to get rides.. because they
alternate between early ( right after school practice) and late ( starting
at 5 or later) practice..


I don't mind taking him. he enjoys it.. it keeps him active and out of
possible trouble if he were to do nothing..he has to keep his grades up to
play.. its a win win situation...for him ( we just ordered his lettermans
jacket..I am so proud of him.. he is growing into a nice young man..)

Kass


"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:csfzhm6vxf.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "whisper" <noway@notnow.com> writes: the kids are 2, 13 and 17 17 yr old doesn't drive ( we live in the boonies ..so no bus
transportation other than the school bus..its 13 miles one way to the school). and
plays sports ..so we transport him 5 days a week,,,,, the 13 yr old is in
4-H.. but that is only a couple of times a month,...the 2 yr old.. doesn't go
to sleep until 10 most nights... 5 days a week sports transportation for a 17 year old! Yikes. Well, I guess that is why I don't want to live in the boonies. If I were in your situation with respect to that, I think I'd say to my 17 year old: 5 evenings a week transportation is too much for us. We're willing to commit to, say, 3 nights, and for the rest of the time you'll have to find rides, maybe stay after school one night a week and sleep over at a friend's, whatever. You do realize that you have some choices about when your 2 year old goes to sleep. I'm not saying that letting him stay up until 10 (at which point you and your cara sposa may be exhausted) is neccessarily the wrong thing to do, but be cognizant of the fact that it is something you are choosing when there are other options. I say this as a parent of two children who gave us a very rough time with the whole sleep thing. Doug

"Whisper" <whisperishere@bctonline.com> writes:
Again there are no "rides" in our area.. Practices are usually right after school.. they have a 4 day school week this year go from 8AM until 4:10PM.. the catch the school bus at 7:45 and get home around 4:45 soccer is now over.. basketball starts in a week...haven't got that practice schedule yet.. but its usually a lot "rougher" to get rides.. because they alternate between early ( right after school practice) and late ( starting at 5 or later) practice..

Well, do what you want. But realize that there are always
alternatives if you don't like what you are doing.

Be aware of what they say at that age. I was 13 when I started
responding to the typical parent taunt of "just wait until you have
kids" with "who says I'm even having any?"

Now here I am, 24 years later, no kids and a 7 year old tubal. Mum
still jokes with me that she had no idea I wasn't kidding back then.
I was, but it did start to plant the idea.

While she has point, I'm sure there are things you do out of love or
family duty that aren't your responsibility. That's part and parcel
of being a family.


On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:40:24 GMT, "Whisper"
<whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
LOL yea she has already said its cured her of wanting kids now..<G>she also hits us with the "he isn't MY responsibility.. I didn't have him"scenario at times when she doesn't want to watch him.. ahh the joy of 13yrold girl!!!

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:44:16 GMT, "Whisper"
<whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
Again there are no "rides" in our area.. Practices are usually right afterschool.. they have a 4 day school week this year go from 8AM until 4:10PM..the catch the school bus at 7:45 and get home around 4:45

What about staying with friends? I spent my teen years in the
boonies, and managed to have after school activities. I'd do what
ever event it was, and go home with a friend for the night. The next
time, we stay over at my house. Both sets of parents seemed to
appreciate the half chauffeuring schedule.

The other thing my parents did was if I was stuck in for the evening
babysitting my brother, they'd rent a video machine (back when no one
owned their own) and some movies and let me have a half a dozen
friends over for the evening. I had friends bugging me when the next
time I could babysit.

Tara

"Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:slrnbpd4lv.piv.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Joy wrote: In this case wonder if it would help to teach the 17 year old to drive. Have you considered the cost of an extra automobile (assuming they don't already have two) and, more costly, the insurance?

As the proud parent of a nearly 16 year old and a 20 year old, I'm acutely
aware of the cost of insurance and vehicles. Still, every family is
different and I've no way to know if the original poster can afford it or
not. Also, it could conceivably open up employment opportunities for the 17
year old that might partially offset the cost.

Tony Miller <tony@cigardiary.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbpd28o.8r6.tony@callisto.jtan.com>...
We found that out early. Our bedroom door is the only one with a lock on it. And we have a Marriage Encounter banner we were given (made of felt with a stick through it and string on it) that we hang on the bedroom door when we want the kids to "leave us alone".

Just wanted to add here that my grandparents were married for well
over 50 years. They hit a rough patch at one point and went to
Marriage Encounter and it did wonders. They eventually went on to
become ME counselors. ME taught them the value of writing little love
notes to each other virtually every day. When my grandfather passed
away, my grandmother had this stack of letters from him. It was very
sweet.

jen

yup very true.. I just take it with a grain of salt and chalk it up to her
teenage hormones at this point.. she is really good with him 99% of the
time...

Kass


"Tara D" <manderly@eol.ca> wrote in message
news:on0epvggsba1d9mbl12836rtbhf3ha33l0@4ax.com... Be aware of what they say at that age. I was 13 when I started responding to the typical parent taunt of "just wait until you have kids" with "who says I'm even having any?" Now here I am, 24 years later, no kids and a 7 year old tubal. Mum still jokes with me that she had no idea I wasn't kidding back then. I was, but it did start to plant the idea. While she has point, I'm sure there are things you do out of love or family duty that aren't your responsibility. That's part and parcel of being a family. On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:40:24 GMT, "Whisper" <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:LOL yea she has already said its cured her of wanting kids now..<G>she also hits us with the "he isn't MY responsibility.. I didn't have
him"scenario at times when she doesn't want to watch him.. ahh the joy of
13yrold girl!!!

Well if we lived closer to a city .. a job might be possible.. but its 15
miles to the nearest "city" (6 miles to the closest store)...and with his
school schedule..I don't really think a job is feasible.... to me school
comes first..

besides at this point. he doesn't have the desire ( I think its a confidence
thing).. to drive


Kass
"Joy" <fairly_happy_doesn't_need_any_more_spam@withoutspa myahoo.com> wrote
in message news:FWGlb.37126$W77.27113@bignews6.bellsouth.net. .. "Jack C Lipton" <cupasoup@softhome.net> wrote in message news:slrnbpd4lv.piv.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.or g... Joy wrote: In this case wonder if it would help to teach the 17 year old to drive. Have you considered the cost of an extra automobile (assuming they don't already have two) and, more costly, the insurance? As the proud parent of a nearly 16 year old and a 20 year old, I'm acutely aware of the cost of insurance and vehicles. Still, every family is different and I've no way to know if the original poster can afford it or not. Also, it could conceivably open up employment opportunities for the
17 year old that might partially offset the cost.

Doug Anderson wrote:
It is the transportation thing I'm worried about, but I'm hoping to keep it in proportion.

We have good public transport but our children (13, 11) are in that age
range where while they theoretically could catch the train home, and that
would be fine if it was midday, I don't want them to be doing so at 10pm.
Especially since it would take twice as long for them to get home than if I
or their father picked them up. When they are 16, we'll probably feel
diferently!

We do carpool, of course, and that helps. When it comes to performances
(music/choir/dance) and sports we can't really avoid being there to watch
them even if we wanted to, which we don't - we enjoy it and they like us
being there, too. Of course, the more children one has the more time is
spent on ferrying them around and watching them perform!

Kids can get their learner's permit at 17 but can't sit the test for their
license to drive until 18 so my eldest son will be halfway through his last
year of high school and my daughter will be out of school altogether before
they can drive themselves.

Tai

"Tai" <taitrytwo_remove_bleh@yahoo.com> writes:
Doug Anderson wrote: It is the transportation thing I'm worried about, but I'm hoping to keep it in proportion. We have good public transport but our children (13, 11) are in that age range where while they theoretically could catch the train home, and that would be fine if it was midday, I don't want them to be doing so at 10pm. Especially since it would take twice as long for them to get home than if I or their father picked them up. When they are 16, we'll probably feel diferently!

This year I started letting my (responsible) 9 year old daughter ride
her bicycle about a mile to her soccer practice. Then I go to pick
her up because it is getting a bit dark when she's done. I think all
the other parents think we're nuts, but this kind of thing was normal
when I was a kid, and I don't think it is a much more dangerous world
(Bill aside) than it was then. (Though we certainly talk about the
dangers more than we did. Back then we were all too worried about
nuclear holocaust to forbid consumption of hallowe'en candy.)
We do carpool, of course, and that helps. When it comes to performances (music/choir/dance) and sports we can't really avoid being there to watch them even if we wanted to, which we don't - we enjoy it and they like us being there, too. Of course, the more children one has the more time is spent on ferrying them around and watching them perform!

Yeah, I feel the same way about performances. But those are
relatively rare events. The practices and rehearsals I'm happy to
miss! At least most of them.
Kids can get their learner's permit at 17 but can't sit the test for their license to drive until 18 so my eldest son will be halfway through his last year of high school and my daughter will be out of school altogether before they can drive themselves.

And then there is the car issue. Our kids will probably be able to
drive at 16 or so, but they won't have their own cars, so they'll be
somewhat limited.

Doug Anderson wrote:

This year I started letting my (responsible) 9 year old daughter ride her bicycle about a mile to her soccer practice. Then I go to pick her up because it is getting a bit dark when she's done. I think all the other parents think we're nuts,

I think that's a good habit to get into. My daughter walked to lacrosse
practice about 1 km away during the winter and was picked up afterwards
because 1) it was dark and 2) we delayed dinner so we could all eat
together.

but this kind of thing was normal when I was a kid, and I don't think it is a much more dangerous world (Bill aside) than it was then. (Though we certainly talk about the dangers more than we did. Back then we were all too worried about nuclear holocaust to forbid consumption of hallowe'en candy.)

I walked to kindergarten by myself at 4 years old. (Kindergarten is
pre-school in this part of the world) I don't think I had to cross the road
but even with that it would be unheard of in my environment for that to
happen nowadays.

Tai

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:04:45 -0400, Tara D <manderly@eol.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:45:41 -0400, Randy Poe<rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old.Sure way to make your 13 year grow up not wanting kids.

No, it's a way to teach a kid that they're part of a family, and
members of families share responsibilities.

What is so wrong with asking that a kid help out with their younger
brothers and sisters?
But thanks towhoever gave that suggestion to Blue's parents, I do appreciate it.Tara

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:25:27 +1000, "Tai"
<taitrytwo_remove_bleh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Whisper wrote: Carpooling.. has worked out for soccer.. this year.. but 99% of the time no one else around us is going in the same direction at the same time..<S> My kids go to a small school (less than 250 in the 9-12grades)... We may have to try the door lock thing.. our door does have a lock on it... we do use it at night sometimes..but we are still working on the 2 yr old to sleep all night in his own bed...I think 2 is too young to expect a child to go off and play with oldersiblings while the parents are present but shut behind a door. My 2 year oldis. I can just imagine it...

This kid is 13. Kids that age and younger are out being paid to take
responsibility for other people's 2-year-olds, 1-year-olds, and
babies.
"Daaaadddddyyyy....whatcha doin'? <knock knock knock> Owen hungry...I wantJOOCE...

This is where the "responsibility" part kicks in.

You can be appropriate grateful if the 13-year-old actually takes
his/her share of helping out the family, to the tune of earned
privileges, money, worship, etc.

- Randy

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:32:35 GMT, "Whisper"
<whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:
Just for information.. my 17 yr old is a great kid.. never been in trouble..good grades.. helps around the house.. baby-sits..etc...

<Ding, ding, ding!>

So let's see... you have a great kid who baby sits for other people...
and you have a need for a baby sitter in your own house... what to do,
what to do... where in the world to find that sitter....?

- Randy

Tara D <manderly@eol.ca> writes:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:45:41 -0400, Randy Poe <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:Then the 2-yr-old is in the care of the 13-year-old. Sure way to make your 13 year grow up not wanting kids. But thanks to whoever gave that suggestion to Blue's parents, I do appreciate it.

I took care of my 3 year old brother at 13 (and of my 2 year old
brother at 12). (Not all the time of course.) Didn't impair my
desire to have kids, in fact it probably did the opposite.

So if Blue doesn't want kids it isn't _just_ because he took care of a
sibling.

I actually meant he baby-sits for me...

My kids are on a 4 day school week.. they baby sit most Fridays while I go
to work..for me.. unpaid.

Kass


"Randy Poe" <rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0k5hpv88disc7u47nnsjog3l4su3mrfst3@4ax.com... On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:32:35 GMT, "Whisper" <whisperishere@bctonline.com> wrote:Just for information.. my 17 yr old is a great kid.. never been in
trouble..good grades.. helps around the house.. baby-sits..etc... <Ding, ding, ding!> So let's see... you have a great kid who baby sits for other people... and you have a need for a baby sitter in your own house... what to do, what to do... where in the world to find that sitter....? - Randy

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:01:04 -0400, Randy Poe
<rpoePA@removethis.yahoo.com> wrote:
What is so wrong with asking that a kid help out with their youngerbrothers and sisters?

I guess it depends on what 'helping out' entails. Blue spent most
Friday nights, and even more Saturday nights looking after his first
brother. By the time he was 15, he was looking after 2 under the age
of 2. His parents weren't about to let 2 young kids change their
lifestyle.

I realize there is a happy median in there someplace.

Tara

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:26:07 GMT, Doug Anderson
<ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote:
So if Blue doesn't want kids it isn't _just_ because he took care of asibling.

You are correct. There are probably as many reasons for him as there
are for me. It just tends to be the reason he pulls out when pressed.

Tara