>Well, it works for me and it's what I understood rg to mean, too. "A loss ofconsciousness of the self as something separate."

That is what I meant when I said that I entered a different state of
consciousness too, when I could finally stop *thinking*.
Music is the only other thing that does that for me, too. I wonder for howmany people that is true?

To a lesser degree, yes. I am an agnostic, but the times when I've felt most
like there *might* be a G-d is when I've hear many voices harmonize. I almost
feel like I am transported into this entity, of many, but one. I don't know
that I have the words for it. That is why I love good choral music, especially
in many parts. Sweet Honey in the Rock, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and some
RennFaire type musicians do that well.

SheilaTai

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030903213123.18345.00000476@mb-m13.aol.com...Well, it works for me and it's what I understood rg to mean, too. "A loss
ofconsciousness of the self as something separate." That is what I meant when I said that I entered a different state of consciousness too, when I could finally stop *thinking*.Music is the only other thing that does that for me, too. I wonder for
howmany people that is true? To a lesser degree, yes. I am an agnostic, but the times when I've felt
most like there *might* be a G-d is when I've hear many voices harmonize. I
almost feel like I am transported into this entity, of many, but one. I don't
know that I have the words for it. That is why I love good choral music,
especially in many parts. Sweet Honey in the Rock, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and
some RennFaire type musicians do that well. SheilaTai

If you had the words for it, then you would limit it to the point of being
pointless. That is what is meant by transcendent. Human words as symbols are
inadequate to describe or explain it. But unlike religion, I don't try to
sell it to anyone else. It's mine and mine alone. And yours is yours alone.

It's like Campbell would put it, the circle whose center is nowhere and
whose circumference is everywhere.

It's me, but it's not me. It is the basal state of humanity where there is
no desire. I am at rest.

rg

In article <20030903213123.18345.00000476@mb-m13.aol.com>, WhansaMi
<whansami@aol.com> wrote:
I almost feel like I am transported into this entity, of many, but one.

Ever considered that that movement perhaps might be in the opposite
direction -- the the transcendence you feel is coming towards you, and
not the other way around?

Ted

"rg" <jobbahut@hotmail.com> writes:
If you had the words for it, then you would limit it to the point of being pointless. That is what is meant by transcendent. Human words as symbols are inadequate to describe or explain it. But unlike religion, I don't try to sell it to anyone else. It's mine and mine alone. And yours is yours alone.

To be fair, many religions don't proselytize. Of course one tends to
hear more about the ones which do.

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f1ekywebsd.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "rg" <jobbahut@hotmail.com> writes: If you had the words for it, then you would limit it to the point of
being pointless. That is what is meant by transcendent. Human words as symbols
are inadequate to describe or explain it. But unlike religion, I don't try
to sell it to anyone else. It's mine and mine alone. And yours is yours alone. To be fair, many religions don't proselytize. Of course one tends to hear more about the ones which do.

Perhaps. Right now, I can only think of one religion that does not, in one
way or another, attempt to promote their religious beliefs or dominate
other-believers with their beliefs. And it is possible they do also and I
just don't realize it. That belief system is Buddhism. Can you name others?

rg

"rg" <jobbahut@hotmail.com> writes:
"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f1ekywebsd.fsf@noether.uoregon.edu... "rg" <jobbahut@hotmail.com> writes: If you had the words for it, then you would limit it to the point of being pointless. That is what is meant by transcendent. Human words as symbols are inadequate to describe or explain it. But unlike religion, I don't try to sell it to anyone else. It's mine and mine alone. And yours is yours alone. To be fair, many religions don't proselytize. Of course one tends to hear more about the ones which do. Perhaps. Right now, I can only think of one religion that does not, in one way or another, attempt to promote their religious beliefs or dominate other-believers with their beliefs. And it is possible they do also and I just don't realize it. That belief system is Buddhism. Can you name others?

Well, Buddhism is a big one.

I can name lots, most of them minor. (Not proselytizing would seem to be a
handicap for widespread adoption.)

Some less minor ones: Quakers, Jews, Confucians.

I'm ignorant about Hindu and Sikh conversion practices.