Wondering [Archive] - Labor Law Talk

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 01:35 PM

"pb..." <woodlark-99@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:co56ah0cml@news3.newsguy.com...
| BaD *** Me wrote:
|
| > Thanks Robyn,
| > Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need
| > support' stage. I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the
| > other side. For the most part my adoption experience was a positive one
so
| > the subject is one I enjoy discussing. Problem is that in the real
world
| > birth parents rarely admit to having released a child, most adoptees I
have
| > met are adults and the fact they are adopted is as boring to them as the
| > fact I wasnt and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth
| > parents, some even feel like we are the enemy.
|
| Dear BaD *** Me...
|
| Take note that some news readers delete any and all text (when
| formatting replies] which falls below " -- " ...just as you have
| the -- above your signature. I was able to cut/paste Robyn's
| reply to your initial post...it appears below. I find that I
| prefer to see the text to which one is responding...it helps
| with continuity in the discussion/thread.
|
| I'm astonished that you've reached the point of not needing
| support now that your child is all of 9 years old. My daughter
| will be turning 41 next year and I still enjoy the support of
| everyone touched by adoption - positive or negative...hell, even
| middle of the road.
|
When I went through my adoption initially there was no support. My other
children didnt know, my family didnt want to talk about it, the father was
not supportive, and there are still no support groups or anything like that
for birth parents near where I live. I did not have friends, family or
others who were understanding or willing to try to be understanding of what
I was going through. So... I just dealt with it. It ate me up so badly for
awhile until I got to the point that I had to just let go. I decided that I
had to have the attitude that I did what I did for the right reasons and
that is all I can control. Whether it turned out bad or good for my child I
did the best I could and worrying and crying would solve nothing. I have to
believe, until proven otherwise, that I chose wisely when choosing a family
and that he/she is loved, cared for and totally happy with the family
provided them. I accept that I will probably never know anything about my
child above what I learned through the adopt. process. I do not plan on
ever meeting my child either. When I released him/her for adoption I
released him/her totally. I am open to meeting my child someday but am not
hopefull and definately not going to initate contact.
You say your daughter is 41? Are the two of you in contact?

| Could you please expand on these statements:
|
| >...Problem is that in the real world birth parents rarely admit
| >to having released a child...
|

Birth parents I have met only admitted to being birth parents after I told
them I was and still it usually took some time. 90% of the b-moms I have
met are either ashamed of their choice or too hurt by it to want to discuss
it openly.

| AND,
|
| >...and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth
| >parents, some even feel like we are the enemy.
|

I have met and made friends with some wonderful adoptive parents. But even
they were iffy in the beginning about how or what to say to me. I think
many feel I might burst into tears at the mention of my child or that I am
like a movie of the week and am viciously hunting my child down to take back
or something like that. Many a-parents I have met just want to cut all ties
with the b-parents. I think out of fear. Fear of them coming back or
sticking their nose where it no longer belongs.

| AND,
|
| >I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the other side.
|
Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again. (hopefully!) I
guess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if that
is the right word for it. And since I had only minimal contact with the
adoptive family for my child I am interested in hearing about the experience
from their point of view, how do they see thier childs b-mom, what do they
tell their child about her etc..

P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be
mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their
adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out. I have given
all medical information and written out everything I could imagine my child
might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would not
have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before they
get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos,
letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the
future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made
a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what I provided.
Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or
something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the boy
next door. I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with
their family.

BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

|
| I'll look forward to your reply.
|
|
| pb...
|
|
|
| "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| news:30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de...
||
|| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
|| news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
|| >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is
only
|| >for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
welcome?
|| >Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,
|| >especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole
|| >picture since I didnt read each and every post.
||
|| LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh?
|| Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc.
|| However, it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss.
|| Feel free to join in :)
||
|| ---------
|| Robyn
|| Resident Witchypoo
|| #1557
||
||
|

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 01:43 PM

WOW! 8!!! Awesome! I have half that many at home. Dont see how you do it.
Arent they great though? I dont enjoy anything in life as much as I enjoy
being a mom.

BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

"Julia" <jurol@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nficq09arbckvm2dv5bb5kmfkli6s5trc9@4ax.com...
| On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:18:43 -0500, "BaD *** Me"
| <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote:
|
| >Thanks Robyn,
| >Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need
| >support' stage. I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the
| >other side. For the most part my adoption experience was a positive one
so
| >the subject is one I enjoy discussing. Problem is that in the real world
| >birth parents rarely admit to having released a child, most adoptees I
have
| >met are adults and the fact they are adopted is as boring to them as the
| >fact I wasnt and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth
| >parents, some even feel like we are the enemy.
|
| G'day Bad ***. This aparent will be happy to lay down her guns and
| chat. Welcome to alt.a, our own weird little corner of the universe.
|
| Julia
| Mum of 8 kids: 2 homemade daughters and 5 sons and a daughter imported
| from Korea, Taiwan and India.

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 01:47 PM

Oh trust me. Being a b-mom and talking openly about it has made me pretty
flame proof. Unfortunately there are still alot of ignorant people out there
who think all I did was throw my baby away eithe for money (LOL) or because
I was a bad mom or maybe (K) was taken from me.
(easer to use initial instead of writting he/she all the time)

BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041125143554.06555.00000719@mb-m24.aol.com...
| >Subject: Wondering
| >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| >Date: 11/25/2004 2:58 AM Mountain Standard Time
| >Message-id: <60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
| >
| >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only
| >for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?
| >Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,
| >especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole
| >picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| >--
| >BaD *** Me
|
| Hi and welcome! Just don't forget your flame-proof undies and you'll be
ok.
| LOL
|
|
| -------------------------
| A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend
will
| be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
| -----Unknown

Scarlett West

11-25-2004, 01:53 PM

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post. LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However, it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free to join in :)

I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child
out of her mind ".
Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".
First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why
not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be
in your best interest to let me see my child ".
Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the
archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?
As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by
the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in
the eyes of adopters.
The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to
use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m
your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.
Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about
where he is at.
Good Luck
Scarlett

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 02:00 PM

I can also spin plates on my head :-)

BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

"J." <jmdjmh@aol.compostible> wrote in message
news:20041125130219.06458.00000526@mb-m26.aol.com...
| >
| >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only
| >for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?
| >Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,
| >especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole
| >picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| >--
| >BaD *** Me
| >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**
|
|
|
| Everyone is welcome, provided that they meet our rigorous but arbitrary
and
| ever-changing criteria for acceptance. Traditionally, those have included
a
| thick skin, an ability to detect and use sarcasm, and the ability to post.
| Having something of value to say is not presently and may never have been
a
| requirement, but is always welcome.
|
| Welcome to alt. a.
|
| J.
| Adoptive parent, International Brigade '92-93.
|
|
|
|
|
| Reply to jmhjmd at aol.
|
|

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 02:20 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| > >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is
only
| > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
welcome?
| > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
parents,
| > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
whole
| > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| >
| > LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh?
| > Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc.
However,
| > it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel
free
| > to join in :)
|
|
| I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child
| out of her mind ".
Oh my child is never out of my mind. I love (K) dearly and (K) is no more
or less my child than my other children are who are not adopted. It is just
that I am at peace with my decision. When I went to court and made the
final decision to release (K) for adoption I did not just release physical
custody. I turned it all over to (K)'s parents. They are the ones up at
night with the fevers, they are the ones who hear the cries from a skinned
knee, they are the ones who will get the stomping or slammed doors during
the teen years. I also released to them the right to be called (K)'s mommy
and daddy. They are the ones who will watch the kindergarten graduation
with pride, who will help with the christmas play costume, etc. I did my
part in being a mom who loved my child enough to realize that in order to
the best for my child adoption was the answer. I gave my child the best I
was capable of at the time...just like I do with my other children.

| Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".
| First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why
| not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
| Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be
| in your best interest to let me see my child ".

NO WAY would I ever consider that. They are (K)'s parents. I gave up my
rights to step into that parenting role with (K). I would imagine that that
kind of thing would be an adoptive parents nightmare.
I do know all about them. I kow where they live, their names, jobs etc.
However it is their role in (K)'s life to be the parental figures. I chose
them for that role. For now my role was to continue a pregnancy that was
extremely difficult to go through with. To stay healthy for (K) and to give
birth to (K) and then to make the decisions that would give my child all the
things I desired for it.

| Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the
| archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?
| As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by
| the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in
| the eyes of adopters.
| The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
| offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to
| use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m
| your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.
| Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about
| where he is at.
| Good Luck
| Scarlett

I am (K)'s birth mother, mom, biological parent, natural parent or whatever
you want to call it. I gave birth to my child and I provided the things a
parent should. A home, a stable family, enough food to eat, access to a good
education, clothing, etc etc. (K)'s parents physically provide these things
but I provided them by choosing adoption and choosing them as parents. I am
no more or less important to my childs life than the adoptive mom is. If it
werent for my choice to give birth instead of abort then (K) would even be
here. Now thats a pretty big deal. What I did is something that neither of
(K)'s a-parents could do. On the other hand they physically raise (K).
They provide her with all of her needs. They fill a role in her life I was
not able to fill (K). (K) is lucky to not only have parents who
biologically are linked to (K) but to also have adoptive parents who are
linked to (K) in a different way. We both provided (K) with things the
other couldnt and together have produced a lovely and well loved child.
PS I dont find any of those terms derogitory. In fact natural mother sounds
silly to me. Naturally I am (K)'s mom becausse I gave birth to (K) but the
adoptive mother is naturally a mother too since she is her legal child and
she has chosen to take on the role of mother to a child. SO I guess if I am
a natural mom then so is (K)'s mom.

Robin Harritt

11-25-2004, 02:23 PM

Scarlett West wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>..."BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsou th.net...I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is onlyfor adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the wholepicture since I didnt read each and every post.LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh?Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However,it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel freeto join in :)I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her childout of her mind ".

I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen
anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can
assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that.

Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, whynot go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would bein your best interest to let me see my child ".Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using thearchaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created bythe adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, inthe eyes of adopters.The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually consideredoffensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like touse this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,myour real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough aboutwhere he is at.Good LuckScarlett

I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your
and you're, obviously not though.

So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is
fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who
willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the
man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who
are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat
meaningless really?

Robin

Lainie Petersen

11-25-2004, 03:38 PM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post.

Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as
good as you get.

The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to
do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred
of birthparents as a class.

Lainie
birthmom/adoptee

Marley Greiner

11-25-2004, 03:57 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group isonly for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post. LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However, it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free to join in :) I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child out of her mind ". Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be in your best interest to let me see my child ". Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in the eyes of adopters. The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about where he is at. Good Luck Scarlett

What are you--a NCFA troll?

Marley

megan

11-25-2004, 04:46 PM

lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20041125143554.06555.00000719@mb-m24.aol.com>...Subject: WonderingFrom: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.comDate: 11/25/2004 2:58 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is onlyfor adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the wholepicture since I didnt read each and every post.--BaD *** Me Hi and welcome! Just don't forget your flame-proof undies and you'll be ok. LOL

Asbestos body suits can prove useful too ;-)

M

------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 04:49 PM

"megan" <meganmail2000-reps@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a6ad9aa5.0411251646.4c228ceb@posting.google.c om...
| lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message
news:<20041125143554.06555.00000719@mb-m24.aol.com>...
| > >Subject: Wondering
| > >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| > >Date: 11/25/2004 2:58 AM Mountain Standard Time
| > >Message-id: <60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
| > >
| > >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is
only
| > >for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
welcome?
| > >Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
parents,
| > >especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
whole
| > >picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > >--
| > >BaD *** Me
| >
| > Hi and welcome! Just don't forget your flame-proof undies and you'll be
ok.
| > LOL
| >
| >
|
| Asbestos body suits can prove useful too ;-)
|
| M

Darn! And I just sent mine out to the cleaners.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

LilMtnCbn

11-25-2004, 05:14 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/25/2004 2:53 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.com>
The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually consideredoffensive and demeaning to all natural mothers .

If you have a problem with it, don't use it. My birth mother prefers it.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

LilMtnCbn

11-25-2004, 05:18 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.comDate: 11/25/2004 3:20 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <xTspd.58719$IQ.46948@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
PS I dont find any of those terms derogitory. In fact natural mother soundssilly to me. Naturally I am (K)'s mom becausse I gave birth to (K) but theadoptive mother is naturally a mother too since she is her legal child andshe has chosen to take on the role of mother to a child. SO I guess if I ama natural mom then so is (K)'s mom.

Scarlett's going to revoke your birthmom membership for that one.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

AdoptaDad

11-25-2004, 05:51 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/25/2004 4:53 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.com>"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in messagenews:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post. LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However, it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free to join in :)I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her childout of her mind ".Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, whynot go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?

Why bother letting them know about? After all, they stole him through
adoption. You would be entirely within your rights to sneak through the back
door and snatch him back. Free him from the bondage of slavery that is
adoption. Break his shackles and rescue him from that deep dark dungeon.
He'll be forever grateful.
Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would bein your best interest to let me see my child ".

Yes, and be sure not to blink. Practice your most intimidating snarl in the
mirror before you go. His fake parents will tremble in fear at the sight of
you, just like those parental wanna bees did when Scarlett busted down the door
of the courthouse.

Dad

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 06:19 PM

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041125201839.06280.00000821@mb-m26.aol.com...
| >Subject: Re: Wondering
| >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| >Date: 11/25/2004 3:20 PM Mountain Standard Time
| >Message-id: <xTspd.58719$IQ.46948@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
|
| >PS I dont find any of those terms derogitory. In fact natural mother
sounds
| >silly to me. Naturally I am (K)'s mom becausse I gave birth to (K) but
the
| >adoptive mother is naturally a mother too since she is her legal child
and
| >she has chosen to take on the role of mother to a child. SO I guess if I
am
| >a natural mom then so is (K)'s mom.
|
| Scarlett's going to revoke your birthmom membership for that one.
|
|
CRAP! And I just had my card laminated!
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

AdoptaDad

11-25-2004, 06:55 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.comDate: 11/25/2004 4:35 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

< snip >
Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again. (hopefully!) Iguess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if thatis the right word for it. And since I had only minimal contact with theadoptive family for my child I am interested in hearing about the experiencefrom their point of view, how do they see thier childs b-mom, what do theytell their child about her etc..P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to bemean.

I don't think your being mean, just perhaps a little naive.
I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with theiradoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.

That's a myth. It's natural for adoptees to want to "seek out" their
birthparents regardless of the "happy" life they may have had with their
adoptive family. Even abused and/or neglected children who have been adopted
out foster care often want to reconnect with their biological parent(s). Does
that surprise you?
I have given all medical information and written out everything I could
imaginemy child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/shewould not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away
beforethey get a chance to find me?)

There are a few adoptees here that have found tombstones at the end of their
search. I think that's a tragedy. I know of a birthmom (in her 60's) who
finally mustered up the courage to search for her son, only to find that he had
died of heart failure two years earlier. It goes both ways.

I think many, if not all, the adoptees on this newsgroup who have reunited
with their birthparent(s) will tell you that they have no regrets, even if
their reunification wasn't all they hoped it would be.

Just be open to the possibility that someday you might feel differently than
you do now. Hopefully, it won't be too late.
The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept whilepreg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To neverhear from my child, IMHO, means that I made a good choice and that he/shedidnt need anything more than what I provided.

It could simply mean that your child searched but couldn't find you. It
could mean that he delayed his search out of some misplaced loyalty to his
adoptive parents. It could mean that he's waiting for you to search for hm.
It could mean many things, but it almost never means that he's forgotten he has
another mother out there... somewhere.
Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event orsomething slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the boynext door.

I doesn't really matter, people will talk anyway. But you seem to be overly
secretive, even about his/her gender. If faced with a real opportunity for a
reunification down the road, would you turn him away?
I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess withtheir family.

What you don't seem to understand is that you've already "interfered" (your
word). Whether you become reunified or remain imaginary, he can no more forget
about you than you can forget about him.

If you're somehow worried that his adoptive parents would fear his
reunification, don't be. From a purely selfish aparent perspective, I'd rather
"compete" with real flesh and blood than some fantasy ghost any day.

"Compete" is the wrong word, but you know what I mean. Adoptive or
birthparents who approach reunion with contempt or hostility towards each other
(read Ms. Scarlett) gain nothing. They just put their child through hell.

I hope your son's adoptive parents will encourage him to search some day. I
hope that you will be receptive to your son should he find you.

Dad

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 07:10 PM

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041125215502.21610.00001054@mb-m12.aol.com...
| >Subject: Re: Wondering
| >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| >Date: 11/25/2004 4:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
| >Message-id: <Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
|
| < snip >
|
| > Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again.
(hopefully!) I
| >guess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if
that
| >is the right word for it. And since I had only minimal contact with the
| >adoptive family for my child I am interested in hearing about the
experience
| >from their point of view, how do they see thier childs b-mom, what do
they
| >tell their child about her etc..
| >
| >P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be
| >mean.
|
| I don't think your being mean, just perhaps a little naive.
|
| >I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their
| >adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.
|
| That's a myth. It's natural for adoptees to want to "seek out" their
| birthparents regardless of the "happy" life they may have had with their
| adoptive family. Even abused and/or neglected children who have been
adopted
| out foster care often want to reconnect with their biological parent(s).
Does
| that surprise you?
|
Oh no not at all. I am not adopted but never really knew my birth father
other than a few bad childhood memories. Still I sought him out and sure
enough he was still bad.

| >I have given all medical information and written out everything I could
| imagine
| >my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that
he/she
| >would not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass
away
| before
| >they get a chance to find me?)
|
| There are a few adoptees here that have found tombstones at the end of
their
| search. I think that's a tragedy. I know of a birthmom (in her 60's) who
| finally mustered up the courage to search for her son, only to find that
he had
| died of heart failure two years earlier. It goes both ways.
|
I think it would be so sad to end a search like that. I hpe that if my
child searches for me that they find whatever answers they are looking for.
I feel as though I owe that much.

| I think many, if not all, the adoptees on this newsgroup who have
reunited
| with their birthparent(s) will tell you that they have no regrets, even if
| their reunification wasn't all they hoped it would be.
|
| Just be open to the possibility that someday you might feel differently
than
| you do now. Hopefully, it won't be too late.
|
I am open to meeting my child someday. I simply dont 'live' for it. Or a
better way to put it is that I dont expect it. That way I am not
dissapointed. As I said I feel that no contact in the end is a good sign
too.

| >The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept
while
| >preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To
never
| >hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made a good choice and that he/she
| >didnt need anything more than what I provided.
|
| It could simply mean that your child searched but couldn't find you. It
| could mean that he delayed his search out of some misplaced loyalty to his
| adoptive parents. It could mean that he's waiting for you to search for
hm.
| It could mean many things, but it almost never means that he's forgotten
he has
| another mother out there... somewhere.
|
Oh (K) wont have a search. (K)'s parents know everything there is to know
about me and how to contact me. They are very open with information about
me. THey would never stand in the way of a reunion. In fact they offered
several times in the beginning for me to visit but I declined. They are
wonderful people.

| >Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or
| >something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the
boy
| >next door.
|
| I doesn't really matter, people will talk anyway. But you seem to be
overly
| secretive, even about his/her gender. If faced with a real opportunity
for a
| reunification down the road, would you turn him away?
|
I would never turn my child away. I only hope that (K) doesnt expect too
much of me. I do not consider myself her 'real' mom. I do not and can
never have that bond that they will develop over years of growing up. Of
course adoptmom cant have the bond I do either. Guess were both the real mom
in different ways.
I guess I am overly protective of the information. I have always been very
careful not to do anything to interfere with their family in any way that
was unwanted. After all who knows, the adoptive parents my post here??!!

| >I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with
| >their family.
|
| What you don't seem to understand is that you've already "interfered"
(your
| word). Whether you become reunified or remain imaginary, he can no more
forget
| about you than you can forget about him.
|
I just do not want to do anyting to disrupt what they have. I have no place
in (K)'s life right now other than as the person who gave birth and the one
who gave (K) the family he/she has right now. Right now mom and dad should
and are the main people. I wont detract from that until I am contacted
after the age of 18.

| If you're somehow worried that his adoptive parents would fear his
| reunification, don't be. From a purely selfish aparent perspective, I'd
rather
| "compete" with real flesh and blood than some fantasy ghost any day.
|
Oh the adoptive parents are wonderful they would totally support a reunion.
They have one other adopted child and are also wonderful with his mom. They
offered and she accepted visits with him. (I declined) I couldnt have
asked for a kinder more loving family.

| "Compete" is the wrong word, but you know what I mean. Adoptive or
| birthparents who approach reunion with contempt or hostility towards each
other
| (read Ms. Scarlett) gain nothing. They just put their child through hell.
|
| I hope your son's adoptive parents will encourage him to search some day.
I
| hope that you will be receptive to your son should he find you.
|
| Dad

I know they will be and if I see my chld again I will be over joyed. I do
feel that (K) may seek us out because I have other children, her siblings.
As I said the search wouldnt be a long one. I know all about them. They
know all about me and the adoption worker does too. I have also included a
letter of consent to contact with my adoption papers. It is up to (K) in
the future to decide on the course for our relationship, if any, when the
time is right.

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 07:15 PM

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041125215502.21610.00001054@mb-m12.aol.com...
| >Subject: Re: Wondering
| >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| >Date: 11/25/2004 4:35 PM Eastern Standard Time
| >Message-id: <Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
|
| < snip >
|
| > Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again.
(hopefully!) I
| >guess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if
that
| >is the right word for it. And since I had only minimal contact with the
| >adoptive family for my child I am interested in hearing about the
experience
| >from their point of view, how do they see thier childs b-mom, what do
they
| >tell their child about her etc..
| >
| >P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be
| >mean.
|
| I don't think your being mean, just perhaps a little naive.
|
| >I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their
| >adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.
|
| That's a myth. It's natural for adoptees to want to "seek out" their
| birthparents regardless of the "happy" life they may have had with their
| adoptive family. Even abused and/or neglected children who have been
adopted
| out foster care often want to reconnect with their biological parent(s).
Does
| that surprise you?
|
| >I have given all medical information and written out everything I could
| imagine
| >my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that
he/she
| >would not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass
away
| before
| >they get a chance to find me?)
|
| There are a few adoptees here that have found tombstones at the end of
their
| search. I think that's a tragedy. I know of a birthmom (in her 60's) who
| finally mustered up the courage to search for her son, only to find that
he had
| died of heart failure two years earlier. It goes both ways.
|
| I think many, if not all, the adoptees on this newsgroup who have
reunited
| with their birthparent(s) will tell you that they have no regrets, even if
| their reunification wasn't all they hoped it would be.
|
| Just be open to the possibility that someday you might feel differently
than
| you do now. Hopefully, it won't be too late.
|
| >The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept
while
| >preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To
never
| >hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made a good choice and that he/she
| >didnt need anything more than what I provided.
|
| It could simply mean that your child searched but couldn't find you. It
| could mean that he delayed his search out of some misplaced loyalty to his
| adoptive parents. It could mean that he's waiting for you to search for
hm.
| It could mean many things, but it almost never means that he's forgotten
he has
| another mother out there... somewhere.
|
| >Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or
| >something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the
boy
| >next door.
|
| I doesn't really matter, people will talk anyway. But you seem to be
overly
| secretive, even about his/her gender. If faced with a real opportunity
for a
| reunification down the road, would you turn him away?
|
| >I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with
| >their family.
|
| What you don't seem to understand is that you've already "interfered"
(your
| word). Whether you become reunified or remain imaginary, he can no more
forget
| about you than you can forget about him.
|
| If you're somehow worried that his adoptive parents would fear his
| reunification, don't be. From a purely selfish aparent perspective, I'd
rather
| "compete" with real flesh and blood than some fantasy ghost any day.
|
| "Compete" is the wrong word, but you know what I mean. Adoptive or
| birthparents who approach reunion with contempt or hostility towards each
other
| (read Ms. Scarlett) gain nothing. They just put their child through hell.
|
| I hope your son's adoptive parents will encourage him to search some day.
I
| hope that you will be receptive to your son should he find you.
|
| Dad

PS I take it that you are an adoptive parent? Personally I think you guys
are great! I have so much respect for couples who have that much love to
give to a child. I cant imagine my life or my childs life without the
wonderful family she has now. I was a foster parent for a few years (to one
child) and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent. I
love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt. I still
love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a troubled
teen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to me
over and over that they dont see how I did it, releasing my daughter. Well
that is how I feel about aparents.

11-25-2004, 07:29 PM

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 07:40 PM

"KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1...
|
| "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is
| >> >only
| >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| >> > welcome?
| >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| >> > parents,
| >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
| >> > whole
| >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| >>
| >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh?
| >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc.
| >> However,
| >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel
| >> free
| >> to join in :)
| >
| >
| > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child
| > out of her mind ".
| > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".
| > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why
| > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
| > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be
| > in your best interest to let me see my child ".
| > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the
| > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?
| > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by
| > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in
| > the eyes of adopters.
| > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
| > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to
| > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m
| > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.
| > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about
| > where he is at.
| > Good Luck
| > Scarlett
|
| What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use
| for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the
| terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
|
| KL
|
|
I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have
ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child
calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes
about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their
grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and
the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo
woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand
chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one
and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is
inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super
Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

AdoptaDad

11-25-2004, 08:17 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.comDate: 11/25/2004 10:15 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <Tbxpd.60797$IQ.29818@bignews6.bellsouth.net>

< snip>
PS I take it that you are an adoptive parent?

We have an adopted son (15) and daughter (12).
Personally I think you guys are great! I have so much respect for coupleswho have that much love to give to a child. I cant imagine my life or mychilds life without the wonderful family she has now.

Oh, somehow I think you would have managed just fine.
I was a foster parent for a few years (to one child)

What happened to her?
and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent.

I'm not sure if I understand. If you now have the capacity to be a good
parent and the confidence and support in place to go along with it, what's the
big deal?
I love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt.

I think you sell yourself short.
I still love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a troubledteen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to meover and over that they dont see how I did it, releasing my daughter. Wellthat is how I feel about aparents.

I'm trying to understand the apparent contradiction in that statement. Pun
intended.

Dad

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 08:39 PM

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041125231756.23249.00001220@mb-m03.aol.com...
| >Subject: Re: Wondering
| >From: "BaD *** Me" badassme@bellsouth.com
| >Date: 11/25/2004 10:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
| >Message-id: <Tbxpd.60797$IQ.29818@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
|
| < snip>
|
| >PS I take it that you are an adoptive parent?
|
| We have an adopted son (15) and daughter (12).
|
| >Personally I think you guys are great! I have so much respect for
couples
| >who have that much love to give to a child. I cant imagine my life or my
| >childs life without the wonderful family she has now.
|
| Oh, somehow I think you would have managed just fine.
|
Oh I know my child would not have had near as good a life with me as with
the adoptive parents. Had it been a differnt time and situation I would
have been OK.

| >I was a foster parent for a few years (to one child)
|
| What happened to her?
|
She was a wonderful girl. Had so much potential but came from a terrible
background. We struggled with her for almost 3 years but the situation got
to the point that she was adversely influencing our other children, had made
false claims of abuse and neglect (all obviously false to the investigators
but none the less stressfull), and at the end of her stay with us my husband
and I were sleeping in shifts so we could watch her door because of the
threat to run away or to cause physical harm to one of our children. I
struggled with the decision but felt that in the end I had to do what was
best for my own children and my marriage. She ended up back at home with
her mother.

| >and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent.
|
| I'm not sure if I understand. If you now have the capacity to be a good
| parent and the confidence and support in place to go along with it, what's
the
| big deal?
|
Just like some people arent cut out for step parenting (or some for
parenting period!) I do not have it in me to welcome into my life
permenantly a child that was not my own birth child. When I was single I
wouldnt even consider a date with someone with kids. I just know myself. I
wouldnt be mean or anything but I dont think I could. My children are so
precious to me. I am afraid I would not feel the same with an adopted
child.

| >I love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt.
|
| I think you sell yourself short.
|
Maybe I just know my limits. Of course adopting a child has never been a
consideration for us so its not like I have even faced the possibility.

| >I still love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a
troubled
| >teen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to me
| >over and over that they dont see how I did it, releasing my daughter.
Well
| >that is how I feel about aparents.
|
| I'm trying to understand the apparent contradiction in that statement.
Pun
| intended.
|
| Dad

Well, I could love, nurture, support and provide for my foster child. I
wanted to do those things for her but at the same time I knew I was not her
parent. I encouraged her to work on her family relationships (the ones that
were semi-healthy). My place in her life was not the same as a birth or
adopted parent. I truly loved being a foster parent but the stress of an
older, troubled child was too much with us still have very impressionable
and naive children at home.

You have to consider too that I am through having children. I have no
desire to go through the infancy, toddler, stages again. I enjoy my teens
and am totally wrapped right now in that aspect of parenting.
In my book, adoptive parents 'ROCK' as my kids would say. I believe some
people are just special that way.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-25-2004, 09:34 PM

sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post. Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as good as you get. The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred of birthparents as a class. Lainie birthmom/adoptee

If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth
children" ?
Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
birthparent".
Its out dated and archaic.
As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.
Black people, were once called "coloreds".
The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus
named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used
anymore.
Indians were once called "red men".
And the list goes on and on.
By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and
falling
into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.
Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.

http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm

Scarlett

BaD aSs Me

11-25-2004, 09:49 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m...
| sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message
news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>...
| > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
| > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is
only
| > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
welcome?
| > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
parents,
| > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
whole
| > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| >
| >
| > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as
| > good as you get.
| >
| > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to
| > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred
| > of birthparents as a class.
| >
| > Lainie
| > birthmom/adoptee
|
| If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth
| children" ?
| Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
| birthparent".
| Its out dated and archaic.
| As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.
| Black people, were once called "coloreds".
| The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus
| named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used
| anymore.
| Indians were once called "red men".
| And the list goes on and on.
| By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and
| falling
| into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.
| Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.
|
| http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm
|
| Scarlett

Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well,
my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs
with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of
us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every
time.....naturally.
I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptive
mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept
other terms:
Nancy-----that makes her (her name)
The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me
Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference
Mother-----------while she would be Mommy
Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother
and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda,
but only on Tuesdays!

If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk about
offensive)
of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.
THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am the
mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Or
another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to
_. She became the mother by adopting (K).
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-25-2004, 10:06 PM

Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>... Scarlett West wrote:"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>..."BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsou th.net...>I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only>for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?>Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,>especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole>picture since I didnt read each and every post.>>LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh?Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However,it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel freeto join in :)I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her childout of her mind ". I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that.Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, whynot go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would bein your best interest to let me see my child ".Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using thearchaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created bythe adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, inthe eyes of adopters.The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually consideredoffensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like touse this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,myour real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough aboutwhere he is at.Good LuckScarlett I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your and you're, obviously not though. So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat meaningless really? Robin
Robin,
I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you
can get the
meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things
directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is
no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message
board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with
errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless
everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your
just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material
for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ?
I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow
you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more
imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the
others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm
sure.
Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers
here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of
the same complaint gets really boring.

Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the
owner of the egg.
She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only
obtained through blood relation.
That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If
a woman can produce an egg
healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down
to the "egg holder".
That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother .
Scarlett

11-25-2004, 10:08 PM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk about offensive)

But see you hit right upon it. That lunatic fringe wants the world to think
of birthmoms as natural mothers and adopted moms as unnatural and not really
mothers. Heck one person here has even said that what adopted mothers do
could be done by monkeys hanging in trees.....hardly though.

KL
of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother. THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am the mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Or another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to _. She became the mother by adopting (K). -- BaD *** Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-25-2004, 11:13 PM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | >> >only | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | >> > welcome? | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | >> > parents, | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | >> > whole | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | >> | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | >> However, | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | >> free | >> to join in :) | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > out of her mind ". | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > the eyes of adopters. | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > where he is at. | > Good Luck | > Scarlett | | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | | KL |KL
Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your
opinion.
You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption
industry labels placed upon them.
But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your
term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ?
There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting
than others.
Just ask your natural mom. | I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it.

For the past few years I have seen "birthmother"
only used in a derogatory sense. Most adoption groups use the term
"natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . Many from
the previous generations are not aware, that this is improper
language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know ,
consider the term an insult.
But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no
longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The
majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of
respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency.
Scarlett

Ron Morgan

11-26-2004, 12:12 AM

Scarlett West wrote:
Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>...So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which isfertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother whowillingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to theman who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, whoare the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhatmeaningless really?Robin Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be theowner of the egg.She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities onlyobtained through blood relation.That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . Ifa woman can produce an egghealthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils downto the "egg holder".That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother .Scarlett
In other words, in this case, yeah, it's a pretty meaningless term. In
point of fact, although the egg would carry the genetic information of
the donor mother, it would share the blood, literally, of the
gestational mother in utero, and spend nine months in the gestational
mother's biorhythmic ecology, experiencing her heartbeat, etc,
experiences that I've seen natural mothers say is of paramount
importance to bonding with their children. This reminds me of "Every
Sperm is Sacred", or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

There is nothing "natural" about discourse on the terms of motherhood
and relinquishment, it is a construction, a battle over representation.
For that matter there isn't anything "natural" about discourses on nature.

On the one hand I believe that people should define themselves
experientially and autonomously; I don't have a problem with mothers who
relinquished taking charge of how they are represented. On the other
hand, I feel that essentialist terms like "natural mother" are
reactionary, indeed mothers who relinquished used to be called the
"natural mothers" up til the sixties, and could hardly be said to have
benefited much by the term. In part this was because the term "natural"
was denigrated in those days, and in today's society "natural" is a
value-added phrase denoting quality and authenticity. This is all fluid,
though, and can change fairly quickly.

Ron

Ron

Robin Harritt

11-26-2004, 12:56 AM

Ms Scarlett wrote:
Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>... Scarlett West wrote: "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... >"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message >news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..> >> >>>I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group isonly>>for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?>>Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,>>especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole>>picture since I didnt read each and every post.>> >>>> >>>LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? >Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However, >it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free >to join in :)> >> >I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her childout of her mind ". I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that. Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, whynot go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would bein your best interest to let me see my child ".Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using thearchaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created bythe adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, inthe eyes of adopters. The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually consideredoffensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like touse this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,myour real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough aboutwhere he is at.Good LuckScarlett I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your and you're, obviously not though.So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat meaningless really?Robin

Robin,
I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm sure. Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same complaint gets really boring.

I'll give you the same answer to that as I once gave to guy we used to call
MoRon Ron.

If it's not important to you, then it's not important to you, Ms Scarlett,
but, to most of us, constantly typing "your" when what you mean to say is
"you are" or "you're", marks you out as a person who is too bone idle and
feckless to bother to learn a few simple rules. You might just as well wear
a big badge saying 'Ill Educated Yob' or even 'TROLL'. For those of us who
have learnt to read at a speed that no longer allows for lip movement,
proper punctuation makes a great deal of difference to readability.

We all occasionally accidentally leave out an apostrophe, that is a result
of typing at a speed that can't keep up with the our own speed of thought,
that is what is known as a 'typo'. Mistakes of omission and commission,
repeated over and over again, are not 'typos', they are a clear sign of a
person who is not sufficiently astute to understand the rules. You can
bet a
person who doesn't understand the simple rules of punctuation and grammar,
won't understand a more complex argument, and we've seen you prove that
here
over and over again in the last week or so.

Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the
owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the
egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough
to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder".
That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett

Ok then, as I'm not all that keen on the phrase, natural mother, I shall in
future refer to Jean (my genetic and birth mother) as my "egg holder" in
all
future conversation. But I'm sure from tomorrow morning onwards every
time I
slip my breakfast egg in to it's egg-cup. I shall collapse in an
uncontrollable fit of laughter.

Robin

Scarlett West

11-26-2004, 02:34 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk about offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother. THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am the mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Or another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to _. She became the mother by adopting (K).

Yeah you wouldn't want to appear ungrateful to your childs adopters
huh?
Why not have a few more for the industry?
They would love a vessel like you .
Since you have denounced yourself as nothing more than giving birth
and not even having the decency
to check on your child . You may just have to face your angry child
one day.
Then you can play dumb and say "I had nothing to do with it, I hoped
you were okay ".
The make some cutesy reference to Cat in the Hat, and keep your
fingers crossed the kid don't blame you. You're void, of any sense
of responsibilty to this child . And then to joke about .
Please.

AdoptaDad

11-26-2004, 03:21 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/26/2004 1:06 AM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411252206.642fcea4@posting.google.com>

< snip >
Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be theowner of the egg.She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities onlyobtained through blood relation.That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless .

My mother, the test tube.
If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere,thats her baby.

Ummm, you're forgettng the natural father.
So it all boils down to the "egg holder".That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother .

< chuckle > Diane, I think you released this trainee too soon.

Dad

Robin Harritt

11-26-2004, 03:24 AM

Ron Morgan wrote:
Scarlett West wrote: Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>... So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat meaningless really? Robin Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett In other words, in this case, yeah, it's a pretty meaningless term. In point of fact, although the egg would carry the genetic information of the donor mother, it would share the blood, literally, of the gestational mother in utero, and spend nine months in the gestational mother's biorhythmic ecology, experiencing her heartbeat, etc, experiences that I've seen natural mothers say is of paramount importance to bonding with their children. This reminds me of "Every Sperm is Sacred", or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. There is nothing "natural" about discourse on the terms of motherhood and relinquishment, it is a construction, a battle over representation. For that matter there isn't anything "natural" about discourses on nature. On the one hand I believe that people should define themselves experientially and autonomously; I don't have a problem with mothers who relinquished taking charge of how they are represented. On the other hand, I feel that essentialist terms like "natural mother" are reactionary, indeed mothers who relinquished used to be called the "natural mothers" up til the sixties, and could hardly be said to have benefited much by the term. In part this was because the term "natural" was denigrated in those days, and in today's society "natural" is a value-added phrase denoting quality and authenticity. This is all fluid, though, and can change fairly quickly. Ron

Yep, I don't have any problem with people calling themselves whatever
they want. But if a particular class can't accept and agree on a single
non-pejorative name for itself then it can't expect the rest of us to.
From now on I'm simply going to refer to my egg holder as Jean, then if
anyone asks, who's that? I'm simply going to say she "my egg holder" and
leave it at that, comfortable in the knowledge that the authoritative Ms
Scarlett has approved it as term for any women who carries a child in
her uterus from blastocyst to partition, but who does not continue to
nurture him or her through to adulthood.

Robin

Robin Harritt

11-26-2004, 03:41 AM

Robin Harritt wrote:
Ms Scarlett wrote: Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>... Scarlett West wrote: > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...>>> >>> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..>> >> >>>>> I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group >>> is only>>> for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents >>> welcome?>>> Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth >>> parents,>>> especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting >>> the whole>>> picture since I didnt read each and every post.>>> >>> >>>> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best >> impression, eh? Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, >> adoptive parents, etc. However, it is NOT a support group - more >> of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free to join in :)>> >> >> I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child> out of her mind ".>>> I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that. > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".> First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why> not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?> Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be> in your best interest to let me see my child ".> Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the> archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?> As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by> the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in> the eyes of adopters.>>> The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered> offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to> use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m> your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.> Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about> where he is at.> Good Luck> Scarlett>>>> I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your and you're, obviously not though. So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat meaningless really? Robin Robin, I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm sure. Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same complaint gets really boring. I'll give you the same answer to that as I once gave to guy we used to call MoRon Ron. If it's not important to you, then it's not important to you, Ms Scarlett, but, to most of us, constantly typing "your" when what you mean to say is "you are" or "you're", marks you out as a person who is too bone idle and feckless to bother to learn a few simple rules. You might just as well wear a big badge saying 'Ill Educated Yob' or even 'TROLL'. For those of us who have learnt to read at a speed that no longer allows for lip movement, proper punctuation makes a great deal of difference to readability. We all occasionally accidentally leave out an apostrophe, that is a result of typing at a speed that can't keep up with the our own speed of thought, that is what is known as a 'typo'. Mistakes of omission and commission, repeated over and over again, are not 'typos', they are a clear sign ofa person who is not sufficiently astute to understand the rules. You can bet a person who doesn't understand the simple rules of punctuation and grammar, won't understand a more complex argument, and we've seen you prove that here over and over again in the last week or so. Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett Ok then, as I'm not all that keen on the phrase, natural mother, I shall in future refer to Jean (my genetic and birth mother) as my "egg holder" in all future conversation. But I'm sure from tomorrow morning onwards every time I slip my breakfast egg in to it's egg-cup. I shall collapse in an uncontrollable fit of laughter. Robin

Guess if I ever catch up with my "sperm donor " as some of our past
participants have referred to all natural fathers, I shall have to call
him Milt.

Robin

Robibnikoff

11-26-2004, 04:27 AM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post. Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as good as you get. The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred of birthparents as a class. Lainie birthmom/adoptee If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth children" ? Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " birthparent".

While it's obvious that you don't care for the term "birthparents", I fail
to understand why you feel you can dictate to other people on its usage?
Seriously, why would you give a hoot?
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Marley Greiner

11-26-2004, 04:48 AM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | >> >only | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | >> > welcome? | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | >> > parents, | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | >> > whole | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | >> | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | >> However, | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | >> free | >> to join in :) | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > out of her mind ". | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > the eyes of adopters. | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > where he is at. | > Good Luck | > Scarlett | | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | | KL |KL Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your opinion. You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption industry labels placed upon them. But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting than others. Just ask your natural mom. | I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" only used in a derogatory sense

Gee, thta must be why CUB used "birth parents."

.. Most adoption groups use the term "natural mother".

I used to use "natural" in the context of bio and still do on occasion, but
people like you made me stop using it. I like "original" myself.

But it also may be the area you are from . Many from the previous generations are not aware, that this is improper language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , consider the term an insult.

CUB invented the term. Take it up with them.
But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. Scarlett

Why use any term other than breeder for female and male, bio and adoptive
aparents (or any other kind of parents) at all. "Mother" and "father" are
nothing more than sentimental terms for a biological function. As we
childfree call ya'll" Moo and Duh.

Marley

kat

11-26-2004, 04:49 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.

I see you have fallen prey to one of the most common adoption myths. The
quality of life with the adoptive parents has *nothing* to do with whether
or not an adoptee seeks or does not seek their bparents. Lots of adoptees
with a positive adoption experience search just as lots of adoptees with a
negative adoption experience do not search.
I have given all medical information

Medical information is an ongoing, ever changing thing. It is not a one
time, static thing.

and written out everything I could imagine my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would
not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before
they get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons of
photos, letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that I
made a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what I
provided.

You would be wrong in that assessment.

Kathy 1
Adoptee who did not search, who's bmother/bfather searched.

kat

11-26-2004, 05:06 AM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother .

She is also the biological mother - which is the term I prefer. Everybody
gets the right to call the players what they want to.
How the egg is grown is meaningless .

Hardly. Without that ability it is nothing more than an egg. Care for an
omelet?

If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder".

Nope. Despite your attempt to portray the bmother as the be all and end
all, that's not the case.
That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother .

*Your* definition. Not everybody's definition. Nobody died and made you
Queen.

Kathy 1 Scarlett

kat

11-26-2004, 05:15 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:lospd.58483$IQ.17439@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. . Oh trust me. Being a b-mom and talking openly about it has made me pretty flame proof. Unfortunately there are still alot of ignorant people out
there who think all I did was throw my baby away eithe for money (LOL) or
because I was a bad mom or maybe (K) was taken from me. (easer to use initial instead of writting he/she all the time)

Well you've "slipped" a couple of times so I think it's safe to assume you
are talking about your daughter. :)

Kathy 1

Dian

11-26-2004, 05:31 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk about offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.

All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her the
afterbirth mother.

THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am the mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Or another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to _. She became the mother by adopting (K).

LilMtnCbn

11-26-2004, 05:34 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "kat" katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.comDate: 11/26/2004 5:49 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <30on23F34bc0dU1@uni-berlin.de>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.n et... P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.I see you have fallen prey to one of the most common adoption myths. Thequality of life with the adoptive parents has *nothing* to do with whetheror not an adoptee seeks or does not seek their bparents. Lots of adopteeswith a positive adoption experience search just as lots of adoptees with anegative adoption experience do not search.I have given all medical informationMedical information is an ongoing, ever changing thing. It is not a onetime, static thing. and written out everything I could imagine my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she wouldnot have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away beforethey get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons ofphotos, letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that Imade a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what Iprovided.You would be wrong in that assessment.Kathy 1

Great post, Kathy. I totally agree.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

kat

11-26-2004, 05:50 AM

"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.c om... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more
to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any
hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.
Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and
laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two
of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the
adoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also
accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate
Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk
about offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother. All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her the afterbirth mother.

So the true agenda of those who insist on "natural" mother emerges. To
portray the adoptive mother as "unnatural". Afterall, as you say, all
things being equal, if you are the natural mother that maker her the
unnatural mother.

Kathy 1

LilMtnCbn

11-26-2004, 05:55 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "kat" katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.comDate: 11/26/2004 6:50 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <30oqlgF32nbh4U1@uni-berlin.de>"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in messagenews:9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.g oogle.com...
All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her the afterbirth mother.So the true agenda of those who insist on "natural" mother emerges. Toportray the adoptive mother as "unnatural". Afterall, as you say, allthings being equal, if you are the natural mother that maker her theunnatural mother.Kathy 1

Oddly enough, my amom doesn't care about the "natural/unnatural". But my bmom
does. LOL

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

pb...

11-26-2004, 06:05 AM

BaD *** Me wrote:
"KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | >> >only | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | >> > welcome? | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | >> > parents, | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | >> > whole | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | >> | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | >> However, | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | >> free | >> to join in :) | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > out of her mind ". | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > the eyes of adopters. | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > where he is at. | > Good Luck | > Scarlett | | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | | KL | | I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it.

The whole mess hit the fan a number of years ago...30? 40? when the woman
who had given birth to a child placed for adoption was being called a
NATURAL mother. Well, of course, a few mothers who adopted children carried
this to its logical conclusion and figured if the mother of birth was called
NATURAL then they *must* be viewed as UN-NATURAL. Sheesh. Semantics, in my
opinion. But that's the way the game has evolved...and it goes on and on to
this day and, I've no doubt, well beyond.

pb...

AdoptaDad

11-26-2004, 06:15 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 11/26/2004 8:31 AM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.com>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is theadoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talkabout offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her theafterbirth mother.

I think we can arrange to return your placenta.

Dad

Robibnikoff

11-26-2004, 07:20 AM

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041126091537.07662.00001131@mb-m01.aol.com...Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 11/26/2004 8:31 AM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.com>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is theadoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talkabout offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her theafterbirth mother. I think we can arrange to return your placenta.

It's probably been made into a shampoo or face cream at this point ;P
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Robibnikoff

11-26-2004, 07:22 AM

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041126092012.06291.00000732@mb-m26.aol.com...Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/25/2004 11:06 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411252206.642fcea4@posting.google.com> Robin,I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that youcan get themeaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting thingsdirected at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the isno notice stating proper grammar is a must . Are you as slovenly in real life as you are in your postings? This is a public messageboard. No it isn't. It's a newsgroup. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings witherrors, but really could care less to mention them. So unlesseverything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your you're

Not to mention that the correct expression is "couldn't care less".

--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Linda Fortney

11-26-2004, 08:40 AM

In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote:I can also spin plates on my head :-)BaD *** Me**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin plates
on her head belongs here.

Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in alt.a--the
angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after insulting
and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to the
effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother. I am
a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn universe
and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying me.
Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home."

Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are
unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade, single
women were often forced to give up their babies against their will, and
that was a crime.

What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain
birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary
relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing that
could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am
against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather
glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share the
same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important than
20+ years of love and care.

I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as you
do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the best
decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with that
decision, is a victim of the opressors.

Linda
Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth

PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on
earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e.
your milage may vary.

pb...

11-26-2004, 08:43 AM

kat wrote: "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.c om..."BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>..."Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.go ogle.com...| sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>...| > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...| > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only| > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome?| > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents,| > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole| > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.| >| >| > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as| > good as you get.| >| > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to| > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred| > of birthparents as a class.| >| > Lainie| > birthmom/adoptee|| If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth| children" ?| Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "| birthparent".| Its out dated and archaic.| As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.| Black people, were once called "coloreds".| The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus| named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used| anymore.| Indians were once called "red men".| And the list goes on and on.| By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and| falling| into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.| Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.|| http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm|| ScarlettNatural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well,my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughswith_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two ofus up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom everytime.....naturally.I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptivemom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also acceptother terms:Nancy-----that makes her (her name)The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides meMom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preferenceMother-----------while she would be MommyBiological mother-----------Non-biologically related motherand like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda,but only on Tuesdays!If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk aboutoffensive)of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her theafterbirth mother. So the true agenda of those who insist on "natural" mother emerges. To portray the adoptive mother as "unnatural". Afterall, as you say, all things being equal, if you are the natural mother that maker her the unnatural mother. Kathy 1

I'm not looking to take any heat off here...but this "argument" has
been around for decades...Dian surely doesn't own it exclusively.
IMO, a mother is a mother is a mother. We have custodial mothers
and non-custodial...surely *that* takes the bio/adoptive/natural/blood
whatever crap out of the mix??

pb...

Lainie Petersen

11-26-2004, 09:20 AM

"pb..." <woodlark-99@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<co62p505og@news1.newsguy.com>... BaD *** Me wrote:

I'm very interested to hear how you believe you'd feel if confronted with/by an extremely angry adult adoptee -- one whose very real rage causes very real confrontations with *any* birth mother from *any* era...no matter what the circumstances of your pregnancy and surrender/relinquishment...hmmm?

I'm sure that we will get to see that unfold if/when it happens.

ps -- I have trouble with certain language used by relative newcomers to the discussion of adoption...especially when I see a mother's child referred to as "IT."

Perhaps she is trying to protect her privacy as well as that of her child?

L.

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:36 AM

>What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we usefor our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind theterminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.KL

My sons' birth families refer to themselves as "birth family", including their
birthmothers. I am trying to imagine another term that would fit when used in
the context of "my son and I are going to Texas to visit his birth relatives".
If I inserted the words "natural" or "first", I can imagine (humorously) the
conversation that would follow. Natural relatives? Makes them sound as if they
walk around in the nude. First relatives? Makes them sound as if they are the
family of the president of the US. "Birth" is the word the works for the
overwhelming majority. Those who object are looking for are reason to rant,
methinks.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:39 AM

badassme gets to the heart of the matter:
I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I haveever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my childcalls me.>

<snip>

Exactly. I feel the same, bad. Anyone here can call me "adoptive mother",
"adopter", or even "baby snatcher." Who cares? My sons are also welcome to
call me virtually anything. "Hey you" might even work. But, at the end of the
day, I know who I am to them and they know who they are to me and they know the
roles their birth families played and still play. Call it all what you wish.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:43 AM

Scarlett rants about the word "birthmother":
Most mother's I know ,consider the term an insult.>>

Oh. I think I can guess who you hang out with. Could it be the "One and Only
Center of the Universe First and Most Important Mothers Who Gave Birth to a
Child that Was Ripped From Their Arms by the Conspiracy of Evil Unnatural Baby
Snatchers Coalition"?

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:45 AM

Marley opines:
I used to use "natural" in the context of bio and still do on occasion, butpeople like you made me stop using it. I like "original" myself.>

I do, too, because "extra crispy" is way too greasy.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:48 AM

pb writes:
The whole mess hit the fan a number of years ago...30? 40? when the womanwho had given birth to a child placed for adoption was being called aNATURAL mother. Well, of course, a few mothers who adopted children carriedthis to its logical conclusion and figured if the mother of birth was calledNATURAL then they *must* be viewed as UN-NATURAL. Sheesh. Semantics, in myopinion. But that's the way the game has evolved...and it goes on and on tothis day and, I've no doubt, well beyond.pb...

It's that time of year again. Time for this important announcement from CALF
(Coalition for Adoption Lingo Fairness):

If we have birth families, we have adoptive families.

If we have natural families, we have nurturing families.

If we have adopters, we have relinquishers.

If we have baby stealers, we have baby discarders.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:55 AM

Scarlett proposes:
Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "birthparent".Its out dated and archaic.>>

I am curious. What do you propose as your label of choice for adoptive parents?
I like "nuturing parents" myself, though other might consider it pompous.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:57 AM

BaD makes way too much sense for some:

<snip>
If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk aboutoffensive)of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am themother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Oranother way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to_. She became the mother by adopting (K).--

You're going to have to stop making so much sense, BaD. You are going to cause
a lot of blown fuses.

P2P

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 09:59 AM

Scarlett begins to preach:
Yeah you wouldn't want to appear ungrateful to your childs adoptershuh?Why not have a few more for the industry?They would love a vessel like you .Since you have denounced yourself as nothing more than giving birthand not even having the decencyto check on your child . You may just have to face your angry childone day.Then you can play dumb and say "I had nothing to do with it, I hopedyou were okay ".The make some cutesy reference to Cat in the Hat, and keep yourfingers crossed the kid don't blame you. You're void, of any senseof responsibilty to this child . And then to joke about .Please.

You are going to have to get off that throne you have built for yourself inside
your head. It is making your head hideously pointed.

P2P

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 10:24 AM

"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:30on23F34bc0dU1@uni-berlin.de...
|
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| news:Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
|
|
|
| > P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be
| > mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their
| > adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out.
|
|
| I see you have fallen prey to one of the most common adoption myths. The
| quality of life with the adoptive parents has *nothing* to do with whether
| or not an adoptee seeks or does not seek their bparents. Lots of adoptees
| with a positive adoption experience search just as lots of adoptees with a
| negative adoption experience do not search.
|
My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and
complete that he has no need to know me. If he does search...not much a
search really...then I will be overjoyed to answer quesitons, be a part of
his life, and hopefully have a relationship with him.

| >I have given
| > all medical information
|
| Medical information is an ongoing, ever changing thing. It is not a one
| time, static thing.
|
Fortunately I keep in contact with the adoption worker. She is no longer a
worker there but continues to follow 'her' families. I update her regularly
on not only medical issues that may arise but things of interest in the
family that my child may want to know someday. If there is a birth or death
I call her...stuff like that.

| and written out everything I could imagine my child
| > might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would
| not
| > have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before
| they
| > get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons of
| photos,
| > letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the
| > future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that I
| made
| > a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what I
| provided.
|
| You would be wrong in that assessment.
|
|
| Kathy 1
| Adoptee who did not search, who's bmother/bfather searched.
|

Who knows how she will feel. I have friends who are adopted and some
searched and found, some searched and didnt find, some never wanted to
search. She will decide when she is old enough and her parents will support
her with it.

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 10:35 AM

"Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu...
| In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
| BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote:
| >I can also spin plates on my head :-)
| >
| >BaD *** Me
| >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**
|
|
| Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin plates
| on her head belongs here.
|
| Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in alt.a--the
| angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after insulting
| and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to the
| effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother. I am
| a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn universe
| and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying me.
| Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home."
|
Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is when I have
put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victim in my
eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you
causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, its just
living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just fall off!

| Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are
| unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade, single
| women were often forced to give up their babies against their will, and
| that was a crime.
|
Agreed.

| What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain
| birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary
| relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing that
| could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am
| against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather
| glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share the
| same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important than
| 20+ years of love and care.
|
| I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as you
| do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the best
| decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with that
| decision, is a victim of the opressors.
|
|
Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not
languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone for making
me do it.
|
| Linda
| Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth
|
| PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on
| earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e.
| your milage may vary.

Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If it werent for
people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine the future my
child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, through their
love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommys like
me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. As a
birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and special that
they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childs adoptive
family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) and I
hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child.

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 10:39 AM

"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:30ookrF337ji2U1@uni-berlin.de...
|
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| news:lospd.58483$IQ.17439@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. .
| > Oh trust me. Being a b-mom and talking openly about it has made me
pretty
| > flame proof. Unfortunately there are still alot of ignorant people out
| there
| > who think all I did was throw my baby away eithe for money (LOL) or
| because
| > I was a bad mom or maybe (K) was taken from me.
| > (easer to use initial instead of writting he/she all the time)
|
|
| Well you've "slipped" a couple of times so I think it's safe to assume you
| are talking about your daughter. :)
|
| Kathy 1
|
|

Ok I give.....Yea, I have a daughter. Kinda hard for me not to say she
since that is all I have. (K) is my fifth daughter. Never had the chance
to use 'he' alot around here.

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 11:01 AM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message
news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1...
| > |
| > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is
| > | >> >only
| > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| > | >> > welcome?
| > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| > | >> > parents,
| > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting
the
| > | >> > whole
| > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | >>
| > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression,
eh?
| > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc.
| > | >> However,
| > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss.
Feel
| > | >> free
| > | >> to join in :)
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child
| > | > out of her mind ".
| > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".
| > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why
| > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
| > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would
be
| > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ".
| > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using
the
| > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?
| > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by
| > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in
| > | > the eyes of adopters.
| > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
| > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like
to
| > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m
| > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.
| > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough
about
| > | > where he is at.
| > | > Good Luck
| > | > Scarlett
| > |
| > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we
use
| > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind
the
| > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
| > |
| > | KL
| > |KL
| Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your
| opinion.
| You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption
| industry labels placed upon them.
| But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your
| term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ?
| There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting
| than others.
| Just ask your natural mom.

In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms
they use in replying. If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too.
If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is
'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing
her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable
using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each person
should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that others
may not be comfortable with the same ones.

| > |
| > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I
have
| > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child
| > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes
| > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their
| > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny
and
| > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo
| > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand
| > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing
one
| > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is
| > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing,
Super
| > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen
it.
|
| For the past few years I have seen "birthmother"
| only used in a derogatory sense.

I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory.

Most adoption groups use the term
| "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from .

LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally from
what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I have
lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a
family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I have
pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved.

Many from
| the previous generations are not aware,

ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager anymore I
am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought me
older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a child
bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use the
same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My mothers
generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends were
adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee
generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or adulthood.
My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was with my
adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never mention
it. "People didnt talk about such things"

that this is improper
| language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know ,
| consider the term an insult.
| But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no
| longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The
| majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of
| respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency.
| Scarlett

I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and
'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s mom to
call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child?
If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural, what
then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being
derogitory towards the adoptive family?
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Marley Greiner

11-26-2004, 11:08 AM

"Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
news:20041126124502.22097.00001477@mb-m06.aol.com... Marley opines:I used to use "natural" in the context of bio and still do on occasion,butpeople like you made me stop using it. I like "original" myself.> I do, too, because "extra crispy" is way too greasy. P2P

Bwwwaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bmoms. The the white meat.

Marley

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 11:14 AM

"pb..." <woodlark-99@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:co7d1q0jjm@news2.newsguy.com...
| BaD *** Me wrote:
|
| > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message
news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1...
| > |
| > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is
| > | >> >only
| > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| > | >> > welcome?
| > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| > | >> > parents,
| > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting
the
| > | >> > whole
| > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | >>
| > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression,
eh?
| > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc.
| > | >> However,
| > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss.
Feel
| > | >> free
| > | >> to join in :)
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child
| > | > out of her mind ".
| > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".
| > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why
| > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
| > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would
be
| > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ".
| > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using
the
| > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?
| > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by
| > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in
| > | > the eyes of adopters.
| > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
| > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like
to
| > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m
| > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.
| > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough
about
| > | > where he is at.
| > | > Good Luck
| > | > Scarlett
| > |
| > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we
use
| > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind
the
| > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
| > |
| > | KL
| > |
| > |
| > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I
have
| > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child
| > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes
| > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their
| > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny
and
| > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo
| > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand
| > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing
one
| > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is
| > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing,
Super
| > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen
it.
|
| The whole mess hit the fan a number of years ago...30? 40? when the woman
| who had given birth to a child placed for adoption was being called a
| NATURAL mother. Well, of course, a few mothers who adopted children
carried
| this to its logical conclusion and figured if the mother of birth was
called
| NATURAL then they *must* be viewed as UN-NATURAL. Sheesh. Semantics, in my
| opinion. But that's the way the game has evolved...and it goes on and on
to
| this day and, I've no doubt, well beyond.
|
|
| pb...
|
Thanks for explaining. I have never heard that before.
THe whole thing really confuses me. The way I see it, I am (K)'s
mother...period! I am not a certain 'kind' of mother or a certain breed of
mother. I just am her mother. Now Cindy is her mother as well. She isnt
more or less of a mother than I am. We just became mothers via different
methods. I think the most accurate terms to use from (K)s point of view
would be Mother (me) and Mommy(Cindy). Cindy can never be to (K) what I am
and I can never be to (K) what she is.
Personally I have two dads. One is my bio-father and the other is my real
father. (by real I mean he did all the real father stuff with me) I call
my bio-father by his first name and my dad is...well dad. Unless I need
something or am hurt then he is daddy. Having grown up this way blood means
very little to me. Blood did not make my father care for me, protect me,
love me or want me. But desire to be a father came from something else for
my daddy besides a blood connection.
In my own family now there is me, my husband and our four daughters. The
first one is biologically his child, the second has a different bio-father,
the third is his bio-child and the fourth is not biologically his but
legally (we were married at the time of her birth). Now if you came to our
house you would never know the difference. He has been with all the girls
since infancy and loves each one the same. There are no 'step' parents,
'step' sisters, 'half' sisters or anything other than sisters and parents
around here. In fact we live in a one level house so steps just dont exist
around here at all! Being related is not about whose DNA was dontated
during your creation. Being family is not about blood type. Love has
nothing to do with genetics. IMO, moms and dads are made by fertilization
or even birth but by choice.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-26-2004, 11:17 AM

Ron Morgan <rhyzome1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<41A6E536.6010900@earthlink.net>... Scarlett West wrote:Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>...So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which isfertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother whowillingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to theman who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, whoare the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhatmeaningless really?Robin Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be theowner of the egg.She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities onlyobtained through blood relation.That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . Ifa woman can produce an egghealthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils downto the "egg holder".That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother .Scarlett In other words, in this case, yeah, it's a pretty meaningless term. In point of fact, although the egg would carry the genetic information of the donor mother, it would share the blood, literally, of the gestational mother in utero, and spend nine months in the gestational mother's biorhythmic ecology, experiencing her heartbeat, etc, experiences that I've seen natural mothers say is of paramount importance to bonding with their children. This reminds me of "Every Sperm is Sacred", or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. There is nothing "natural" about discourse on the terms of motherhood and relinquishment, it is a construction, a battle over representation. For that matter there isn't anything "natural" about discourses on nature. On the one hand I believe that people should define themselves experientially and autonomously; I don't have a problem with mothers who relinquished taking charge of how they are represented. On the other hand, I feel that essentialist terms like "natural mother" are reactionary, indeed mothers who relinquished used to be called the "natural mothers" up til the sixties, and could hardly be said to have benefited much by the term. In part this was because the term "natural" was denigrated in those days, and in today's society "natural" is a value-added phrase denoting quality and authenticity. This is all fluid, though, and can change fairly quickly. Ron Surmised quite well.
Every aspect was cover in your post .
From the emotional to scientific.
Nice to have an intelligent perspective.

Scarlett

Steve White

11-26-2004, 11:28 AM

In article <671d8c26.0411260918.6d09132@posting.google.com>,
sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote:
Still, I have heard some rather amazing stuff over the years, often from people who really should have known better.

I've found over the years in a variety of situations, not just adoption,
that a number of people are at a total loss as to what to say in a given
situation. That doesn't constrain them from opening their mouths anyway.

steve

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 11:51 AM

"KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6c75d_2@127.0.0.1...
|
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| news:iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
| >
| > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m...
| > | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message
| > news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>...
| > | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is
| > only
| > | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| > welcome?
| > | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| > parents,
| > | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
| > whole
| > | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as
| > | > good as you get.
| > | >
| > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more
to
| > | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any
hatred
| > | > of birthparents as a class.
| > | >
| > | > Lainie
| > | > birthmom/adoptee
| > |
| > | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth
| > | children" ?
| > | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
| > | birthparent".
| > | Its out dated and archaic.
| > | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.
| > | Black people, were once called "coloreds".
| > | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus
| > | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used
| > | anymore.
| > | Indians were once called "red men".
| > | And the list goes on and on.
| > | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and
| > | falling
| > | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.
| > | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.
| > |
| > | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm
| > |
| > | Scarlett
| >
| > Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.
| > Well,
| > my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and
| > laughs
| > with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two
of
| > us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every
| > time.....naturally.
| > I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the
| > adoptive
| > mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also
accept
| > other terms:
| > Nancy-----that makes her (her name)
| > The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me
| > Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference
| > Mother-----------while she would be Mommy
| > Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother
| > and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate
| > Thunda,
| > but only on Tuesdays!
| >
| > If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk
| > about
| > offensive)
|
| But see you hit right upon it. That lunatic fringe wants the world to
think
| of birthmoms as natural mothers and adopted moms as unnatural and not
really
| mothers. Heck one person here has even said that what adopted mothers do
| could be done by monkeys hanging in trees.....hardly though.
|
| KL
|

UCK! I am a birth/natural/original/first/egg producing/fetus incubating mom
and I hate to hear people talk about adoptive parents that way. I could not
have been the mother I should have been without the adoptive parents being
there, willing and able to fullfil the desires I had for my child. They are
the means by which I was able to accomplish being a good mother to (K). I
owe them so much. I am indebted to them for what they have done and continue
to do. They have my utmost respect.

| > of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.
| > THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am
the
| > mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted.
Or
| > another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth
| > to
| > _. She became the mother by adopting (K).
| > --
| > BaD *** Me
| > **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 12:02 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411260234.5dbcb622@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m...
| > | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message
| > news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>...
| > | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is
| > only
| > | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| > welcome?
| > | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| > parents,
| > | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
| > whole
| > | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as
| > | > good as you get.
| > | >
| > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more
to
| > | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any
hatred
| > | > of birthparents as a class.
| > | >
| > | > Lainie
| > | > birthmom/adoptee
| > |
| > | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth
| > | children" ?
| > | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
| > | birthparent".
| > | Its out dated and archaic.
| > | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.
| > | Black people, were once called "coloreds".
| > | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus
| > | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used
| > | anymore.
| > | Indians were once called "red men".
| > | And the list goes on and on.
| > | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and
| > | falling
| > | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.
| > | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.
| > |
| > | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm
| > |
| > | Scarlett
| >
| > Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.
Well,
| > my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and
laughs
| > with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two
of
| > us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every
| > time.....naturally.
| > I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the
adoptive
| > mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also
accept
| > other terms:
| > Nancy-----that makes her (her name)
| > The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me
| > Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference
| > Mother-----------while she would be Mommy
| > Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother
| > and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate
Thunda,
| > but only on Tuesdays!
| >
| > If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk
about
| > offensive)
| > of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.
| > THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am
the
| > mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted.
Or
| > another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth
to
| > _. She became the mother by adopting (K).
|
|
| Yeah you wouldn't want to appear ungrateful to your childs adopters
| huh?

I am grateful to them for their willingness and ability to provide my child
with everything I desired for her. Why wouldnt I be?

| Why not have a few more for the industry?

In case you hadnt noticed. There arent many people who get pregnant just to
go through an adoption. Its not like you get money, fame, etc...from the
experience. Adoption is a means to provide for a child that you can not or
will not provide for yourself for whatever reasons. It is an alternative to
abortion and parenting...not a hobby. Geez, cant believe you would think
that.

| They would love a vessel like you .
| Since you have denounced yourself as nothing more than giving birth
| and not even having the decency
| to check on your child . You may just have to face your angry child
| one day.

What more did I do than give birth and make the adoption choices I thought
best? After the point of her birth I never nourished her, changed her,
hushed her crying, made her laugh, paid her bills, bought her a toy. I have
had no part in her life other than the pregnancy.

| Then you can play dumb and say "I had nothing to do with it, I hoped
| you were okay ".

Hey, I waS totally involved in the adoption decision. I was a part of every
aspect of it. This was my child and I wasnt just going to hand her over to
anyone.

| The make some cutesy reference to Cat in the Hat, and keep your
| fingers crossed the kid don't blame you. You're void, of any sense
| of responsibilty to this child . And then to joke about .
| Please.

What part of adoption dont you get? Adoption is the end of legal,
financial, physical reponsibility to the child for the birth/original/egg
producing/first/natural/fetal incubating - mother. Giving a child up for
adoption does entail releasing all aspects of parenting to another person.
I did all that was within my ability to ensure her well being. Now that the
adoption has taken place it is up to her parents to do that.
All jokes aside. Are you sure you understand what adoption is, the process,
the choices a birth/original/egg producing/first/natural/fetal incubating -
mother has? The extent to which some parents go to to ensure the safety and
well being of their child?
You sound as though you are stuck in the time of Sally going to Aunt Flo's
for 8 mo.s and coming back to rumors of a pregnancy. Or Neighbor Jane
leaves to her sisters for a month (weighing 105lb) but comes back with a
newborn she claims is hers and no one questions is...at least not out loud.
A time when you might be in the OB ward with a 16 yr old being harrassed and
threatened into an adoption by her parents and a social worker and probably
a hospital nurse or two.
Things have changed and while there are still unjusticed done sometimes it
is much more infrequent and adoption is looked upon as a positive thing by
msot people nowdays. Aint it great>?
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-26-2004, 12:03 PM

Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30o9cbF2v6uuuU2@uni-berlin.de>... Ms Scarlett wrote:Robin Harritt <ningu m@n o.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message new s:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>...Scarlett West wrote:>"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17i F31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...>>>>>>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message>>news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..>>>>>>>>>>>I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only>>>for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents wel come?>>>Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth pare nts,>>>especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the w hole>>>picture since I didnt read each and every post.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, e h?>>Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. Ho wever,>>it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Fee l free>>to join in :)>>>>>>>>>I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child>out of her mind ".>>>>I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seenanyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I canassure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that.>Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".>First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why>not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?>Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be>in your best interest to let me see my child ".>Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the>archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?>As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by>the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in>the eyes of adopters.>>>The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered>offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to>use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m>your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.>Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about>where he is at.>Good Luck>Scarlett>>>>>I thought you said that you do understand the difference between yourand you're, obviously not though.So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which isfertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother whowillingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to th eman who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, wh oare the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhatmeaningless really?RobinRobin, I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm sure. Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same complaint gets really boring. I'll give you the same answer to that as I once gave to guy we used to ca ll MoRon Ron. If it's not important to you, then it's not important to you, Ms Scarlett , but, to most of us, constantly typing "your" when what you mean to say is "you are" or "you're", marks you out as a person who is too bone idle and feckless to bother to learn a few simple rules. You might just as well we ar a big badge saying 'Ill Educated Yob' or even 'TROLL'. For those of us wh o have learnt to read at a speed that no longer allows for lip movement, proper punctuation makes a great deal of difference to readability. We all occasionally accidentally leave out an apostrophe, that is a resul t of typing at a speed that can't keep up with the our own speed of thought , that is what is known as a 'typo'. Mistakes of omission and commission, repeated over and over again, are not 'typos', they are a clear sign of a person who is not sufficiently astute to understand the rules. You can bet a person who doesn't understand the simple rules of punctuation and grammar , won't understand a more complex argument, and we've seen you prove that here over and over again in the last week or so. Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett Ok then, as I'm not all that keen on the phrase, natural mother, I shall in future refer to Jean (my genetic and birth mother) as my "egg holder" in all future conversation. But I'm sure from tomorrow morning onwards every time I slip my breakfast egg in to it's egg-cup. I shall collapse in an uncontrollable fit of laughter. Robin

Robin,
Where exactly are these rules that you are writing about ? Not only
are you B0RING ME to death.
Personally you have taken it upon your self to attempt to annoy me
with grammar flames.
If my posts are too hard for you to read, you do not have to read
them.
Seems as though you have the problem, not me.
Thats like saying "my arm hurts when I burn it with a cigarette",
Well then don't burn it with the cigarette. And if it's too labor
intensive to read my posts don't. Because crying like a ***** about
it, just makes you look bad.
Dad has the ability to make me laugh and Robyn actually makes sense
at times and there are others here who shine through for their witty
sarcasm and comments. You just come across as a nag and a bore. Your
the poodle amongst the pitbulls . Now if you want to insult me, pick
on something a little better than grammar, quit making up ettiquette
rules and write something witty . Its not so hard,
Dad and Robyn and the others seem able to manage that. Why can't you ?
Sit back and watch how the big kids do it and then follow suit. Grab a
hold of a limb and quit nipping at the heels , poodle girl .
Straighten yourself up and stop crying and , like a baby, over
grammar. Everyone gets my point and I have several posts here to prove
that . Waaaaaaaaa. Careful Robin if the crying continues, I,ll have to
put something in your mouth. I have just the pacifier for you.

Scarlett

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 12:04 PM

"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m...
| > | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message
| > news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>...
| > | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group
is
| > only
| > | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents
| > welcome?
| > | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth
| > parents,
| > | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the
| > whole
| > | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as
| > | > good as you get.
| > | >
| > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more
to
| > | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any
hatred
| > | > of birthparents as a class.
| > | >
| > | > Lainie
| > | > birthmom/adoptee
| > |
| > | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth
| > | children" ?
| > | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
| > | birthparent".
| > | Its out dated and archaic.
| > | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory.
| > | Black people, were once called "coloreds".
| > | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus
| > | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used
| > | anymore.
| > | Indians were once called "red men".
| > | And the list goes on and on.
| > | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and
| > | falling
| > | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers.
| > | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy.
| > |
| > | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm
| > |
| > | Scarlett
| >
| > Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK.
Well,
| > my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and
laughs
| > with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two
of
| > us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every
| > time.....naturally.
| > I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the
adoptive
| > mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also
accept
| > other terms:
| > Nancy-----that makes her (her name)
| > The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me
| > Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference
| > Mother-----------while she would be Mommy
| > Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother
| > and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate
Thunda,
| > but only on Tuesdays!
| >
| > If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk
about
| > offensive)
| > of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.
|
| All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her the
| afterbirth mother.
|
|

Eewwweee. Man, you made me spit tea all over the key board. Were both
moms. I prefer birth mother and cindy prefers adoptive mother or just
mother. She and (K) are the only two people I realy care about as far as the
appropriate name. If they are OK with it then so am I.

|
|
| > THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am
the
| > mother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted.
Or
| > another way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth
to
| > _. She became the mother by adopting (K).

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 12:37 PM

"Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
news:20041126123946.22097.00001475@mb-m06.aol.com...
| badassme gets to the heart of the matter:
|
| >I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I
have
| >ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child
| >calls me.>
|
| <snip>
|
| Exactly. I feel the same, bad. Anyone here can call me "adoptive mother",
| "adopter", or even "baby snatcher." Who cares? My sons are also welcome
to
| call me virtually anything. "Hey you" might even work. But, at the end of
the
| day, I know who I am to them and they know who they are to me and they
know the
| roles their birth families played and still play. Call it all what you
wish.
|
|
| P2P

Exactly. The actual 'name' means nothing it is the relationship between the
people. Most of my friends cringe when my husband calls me his old lady.
They think it disrepectful. But as long as he isnt talking to them who
cares. I dont. After 19 yrs and some of the crap we have been through im
probably lucky we dont call each other worse than that.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 12:40 PM

"Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
news:20041126123622.22097.00001474@mb-m06.aol.com...
| >What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use
| >for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind
the
| >terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
| >
| >KL
| >
| >
| >
|
| My sons' birth families refer to themselves as "birth family", including
their
| birthmothers. I am trying to imagine another term that would fit when used
in
| the context of "my son and I are going to Texas to visit his birth
relatives".
| If I inserted the words "natural" or "first", I can imagine (humorously)
the
| conversation that would follow. Natural relatives? Makes them sound as if
they
| walk around in the nude. First relatives? Makes them sound as if they
are the
| family of the president of the US. "Birth" is the word the works for the
| overwhelming majority. Those who object are looking for are reason to
rant,
| methinks.
|
|
| P2P

Personally im proud to be a birthmom. It lets people know I did a pretty
important and tough thing by continueing an obviously unplanned/unwanted/or
inconvenient pregnancy. It tells my relationship with my child - birth. I
am her mom by way of birth, no small accomplishment let me tell ya.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Marley Greiner

11-26-2004, 12:41 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411261203.321cf6@posting.google.com ... Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30o9cbF2v6uuuU2@uni-berlin.de>... Ms Scarlett wrote:Robin Harritt <ningu m@n o.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message new s:<30n49rF2v6uuuU1@uni-berlin.de>...>Scarlett West wrote:>>>>>"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message news:<30m17i F31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...>>>>>>>>>>>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message>>>news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only>>>>for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents wel come?>>>>Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth pare nts,>>>>especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the w hole>>>>picture since I didnt read each and every post.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, e h?>>>Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. Ho wever,>>>it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Fee l free>>>to join in :)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child>>out of her mind ".>>>>>>>>>I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen>anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can>assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that.>>>>>>Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ".>>First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why>>not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?>>Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be>>in your best interest to let me see my child ".>>Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the>>archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ?>>As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by>>the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in>>the eyes of adopters.>>>>>>The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered>>offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to>>use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m>>your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother.>>Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about>>where he is at.>>Good Luck>>Scarlett>>>>>>>>>>>I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your>and you're, obviously not though.>>So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is>fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who>willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to th e>man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, wh o>are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat>meaningless really?>>>Robin>>Robin, I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm sure. Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same complaint gets really boring. I'll give you the same answer to that as I once gave to guy we used to ca ll MoRon Ron. If it's not important to you, then it's not important to you, Ms Scarlett , but, to most of us, constantly typing "your" when what you mean to say is "you are" or "you're", marks you out as a person who is too bone idle and feckless to bother to learn a few simple rules. You might just as well we ar a big badge saying 'Ill Educated Yob' or even 'TROLL'. For those of us wh o have learnt to read at a speed that no longer allows for lip movement, proper punctuation makes a great deal of difference to readability. We all occasionally accidentally leave out an apostrophe, that is a resul t of typing at a speed that can't keep up with the our own speed of thought , that is what is known as a 'typo'. Mistakes of omission and commission, repeated over and over again, are not 'typos', they are a clear sign of a person who is not sufficiently astute to understand the rules. You can bet a person who doesn't understand the simple rules of punctuation and grammar , won't understand a more complex argument, and we've seen you prove that here over and over again in the last week or so. Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett Ok then, as I'm not all that keen on the phrase, natural mother, I shall in future refer to Jean (my genetic and birth mother) as my "egg holder" in all future conversation. But I'm sure from tomorrow morning onwards every time I slip my breakfast egg in to it's egg-cup. I shall collapse in an uncontrollable fit of laughter. Robin Robin, Where exactly are these rules that you are writing about ? Not only are you B0RING ME to death. Personally you have taken it upon your self to attempt to annoy me with grammar flames. If my posts are too hard for you to read, you do not have to read them. Seems as though you have the problem, not me. Thats like saying "my arm hurts when I burn it with a cigarette", Well then don't burn it with the cigarette. And if it's too labor intensive to read my posts don't. Because crying like a ***** about it, just makes you look bad. Dad has the ability to make me laugh and Robyn actually makes sense at times and there are others here who shine through for their witty sarcasm and comments. You just come across as a nag and a bore. Your the poodle amongst the pitbulls . Now if you want to insult me, pick on something a little better than grammar, quit making up ettiquette rules and write something witty . Its not so hard, Dad and Robyn and the others seem able to manage that. Why can't you ? Sit back and watch how the big kids do it and then follow suit. Grab a hold of a limb and quit nipping at the heels , poodle girl . Straighten yourself up and stop crying and , like a baby, over grammar. Everyone gets my point and I have several posts here to prove that . Waaaaaaaaa. Careful Robin if the crying continues, I,ll have to put something in your mouth. I have just the pacifier for you. Scarlett

Just what exactly do you have against Robyn?

Marley

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 12:46 PM

"Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
news:20041126125517.22097.00001479@mb-m06.aol.com...
| Scarlett proposes:
|
| >Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "
| >birthparent".
| >Its out dated and archaic.>>
|
| I am curious. What do you propose as your label of choice for adoptive
parents?
| I like "nuturing parents" myself, though other might consider it pompous.
|
|
| P2P

Chosen parent

--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

11-26-2004, 12:47 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | >> >only | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | >> > welcome? | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | >> > parents, | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | >> > whole | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | >> | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | >> However, | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | >> free | >> to join in :) | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > out of her mind ". | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > the eyes of adopters. | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > where he is at. | > Good Luck | > Scarlett | | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | | KL |KL Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your opinion. You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption industry labels placed upon them. But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting than others. Just ask your natural mom.

Which one....they are both natural mom's ... I'll assume you meant the
living one, since I can't communicate with the dead. In that case my amom
agrees you are nothing but a troll...entertaining at time, but a troll
none-the-less.
| I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" only used in a derogatory sense. Most adoption groups use the term "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . Many from the previous generations are not aware, that this is improper language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , consider the term an insult. But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency.

Doesn't mean it is an ironclad rule just because it shows up on Google.

KL
Scarlett

Palms2pines

11-26-2004, 03:44 PM

Bad writes of her birth son:
My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full andcomplete that he has no need to know me. >>

<snip>

Bad, this sounds to me as if you either feel you are not worthy of his future
attention and caring or that you have bought into one of the many adoption
myths, the myth that happy and fulfilled adoptees will never feel a need to
know birth relatives. Either way, your statements sound sad to me. Perhaps you
and your son will not be drawn together one day, but perhaps you will. If that
becomes your reality, I hope you will be able to accept him into your life
without feeling unworthy or worrying that his life must not have been good
enough.

P2P

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 04:43 PM

"Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
news:20041126184413.12394.00001323@mb-m28.aol.com...
| Bad writes of her birth son:
|
| >My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and
| >complete that he has no need to know me. >>
|
| <snip>
|
| Bad, this sounds to me as if you either feel you are not worthy of his
future
| attention and caring or that you have bought into one of the many adoption
| myths, the myth that happy and fulfilled adoptees will never feel a need
to
| know birth relatives. Either way, your statements sound sad to me. Perhaps
you
| and your son will not be drawn together one day, but perhaps you will. If
that
| becomes your reality, I hope you will be able to accept him into your life
| without feeling unworthy or worrying that his life must not have been good
| enough.
|
|
| P2P

No, I have just left it up to my child to decide if a future relationship
will take place. My wish that she has a fullfilled and happy life
regardless of whether we ever meet. I hold no expectations for the future
with her but also would be over joyed to meet her some day. Why would I
feel unworthy? I was actually told by the adoption agency to expect her to
look for me. According to statistics I have read (for ex. a study that
reviewed estimates abroad and in the United States Muller & Perry, 2001)
suggest around 50% of adoptees search for their birth families. This varies
by study of course but from what I have seen ,that appears reliable, I have
about a 50/50 chance of seeing my child again. Im Ok with that. I am not
hanging on to some hope that the day she turns 18 ill get a knock on the
door. I prepared for it but if it happens it happens. If not then thats OK
too.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Scarlett West

11-26-2004, 04:52 PM

palms2pines@aol.comh8spam (Palms2pines) wrote in message news:<20041126125517.22097.00001479@mb-m06.aol.com>... Scarlett proposes:Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "birthparent".Its out dated and archaic.>> I am curious. What do you propose as your label of choice for adoptive parents? I like "nuturing parents" myself, though other might consider it pompous. P2P
P2P
Thats cool for you and not pompous at all.
Scarlett

Scarlett West

11-26-2004, 05:28 PM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... "Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu... | In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, | BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote: | >I can also spin plates on my head :-) | > | >BaD *** Me | >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | | | Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin plates | on her head belongs here. | | Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in alt.a--the | angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after insulting | and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to the | effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother. I am | a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn universe | and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying me. | Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home." |
I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother as
well as a natural mother.
You need to do your homework before you assume anything about me.
I speak my truth and understanding as to the way I see adoption.
You can read it or not.
I never said anyone was being mean to me and in fact enjoy the
exchange.
You assume I ask for pity ?? no honey WRONG pity is for punks. I
do not need any pity.
I am happy with my latest adoption.

Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is when I have put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victim in my eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, its just living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just fall off! | Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are | unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade, single | women were often forced to give up their babies against their will, and | that was a crime. |

WRONG it was not only is that era , it still exists today and is
going on now .
Most adopters turn a blind eye to forced and cocerced adoptions.
they do this so they can sleep well at night knowing they have taken
another womans child.
In order for them to live with themselves they keep lying to
themselves saying " they woman did not want the child anyway".
Agreed. | What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain | birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary | relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing that | could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am | against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather | glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share the | same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important than | 20+ years of love and care. | | I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as you | do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the best | decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with that | decision, is a victim of the opressors. | | Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone for making me do it. | | Linda | Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth | | PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on | earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e. | your milage may vary. Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If it werent for people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine the future my child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, through their love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommys like me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. As a birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and special that they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childs adoptive family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) and I hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child.

Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry.
You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love.
If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room !
You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you
never represent yourself as
such. You ignorance is astounding.
I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader.
I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront
her *** one day.

Marley Greiner

11-26-2004, 05:41 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.c om... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... "Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu... | In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, | BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote: | >I can also spin plates on my head :-) | > | >BaD *** Me | >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | | | Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin plates | on her head belongs here. | | Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in alt.a--the | angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after insulting | and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to the | effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother. I am | a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn universe | and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying me. | Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home." | I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother as well as a natural mother. You need to do your homework before you assume anything about me. I speak my truth and understanding as to the way I see adoption. You can read it or not. I never said anyone was being mean to me and in fact enjoy the exchange. You assume I ask for pity ?? no honey WRONG pity is for punks. I do not need any pity. I am happy with my latest adoption. Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is when I have put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victim in my eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, its just living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just fall off! | Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are | unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade, single | women were often forced to give up their babies against their will, and | that was a crime. | WRONG it was not only is that era , it still exists today and is going on now . Most adopters turn a blind eye to forced and cocerced adoptions. they do this so they can sleep well at night knowing they have taken another womans child. In order for them to live with themselves they keep lying to themselves saying " they woman did not want the child anyway". Agreed. | What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain | birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary | relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing that | could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am | against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather | glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share the | same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important than | 20+ years of love and care. | | I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as you | do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the best | decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with that | decision, is a victim of the opressors. | | Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone for making me do it. | | Linda | Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth | | PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on | earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e. | your milage may vary. Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If it werent for people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine the future my child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, through their love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommys like me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. As a birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and special that they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childs adoptive family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) and I hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child. Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry. You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love. If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room ! You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you never represent yourself as such. You ignorance is astounding. I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader. I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront her *** one day.

Are you mainlining testosterone?

Marley

Robibnikoff

11-26-2004, 05:46 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.c om...

snip Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry. You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love. If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room ! You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you never represent yourself as such. You ignorance is astounding. I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader. I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront her *** one day.

Lemme guess, you didn't graduate high school.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

AdoptaDad

11-26-2004, 05:52 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/26/2004 8:28 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.com>

< snip >
I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother aswell as a natural mother.

Which stretch of highway?

Dad

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 05:56 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
| > "Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message
| > news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu...
| > | In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
| > | BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote:
| > | >I can also spin plates on my head :-)
| > | >
| > | >BaD *** Me
| > | >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**
| > |
| > |
| > | Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin
plates
| > | on her head belongs here.
| > |
| > | Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in
alt.a--the
| > | angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after
insulting
| > | and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to
the
| > | effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother.
I am
| > | a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn
universe
| > | and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying
me.
| > | Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home."
| > |
| I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother as
| well as a natural mother.
| You need to do your homework before you assume anything about me.
| I speak my truth and understanding as to the way I see adoption.
| You can read it or not.
| I never said anyone was being mean to me and in fact enjoy the
| exchange.
| You assume I ask for pity ?? no honey WRONG pity is for punks. I
| do not need any pity.
| I am happy with my latest adoption.
|
May I ask how many adoptions you have been party to? Were the birth or
natural mom each time or are you also an adoptive mom?

|
| > Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is when I
have
| > put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victim in
my
| > eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you
| > causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, its
just
| > living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just fall off!
| >
| > | Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are
| > | unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade,
single
| > | women were often forced to give up their babies against their will,
and
| > | that was a crime.
| > |
|
| WRONG it was not only is that era , it still exists today and is
| going on now .
| Most adopters turn a blind eye to forced and cocerced adoptions.
| they do this so they can sleep well at night knowing they have taken
| another womans child.
| In order for them to live with themselves they keep lying to
| themselves saying " they woman did not want the child anyway".
|

OMG. Do you know how an adoption takes place? You are alone with a judge
and several lawyers and asked 'Are you doing this willingly' 'Are you being
forced?' 'Are you being paid?' 'Has there been promise of payment?'
The he explains what this proceeding means and again with the questions..do
you understand bla bla bla. No one is allowed in chamber in most states
because of the fact that you may be forced and that person is there.
Besides that there are a plethora of places for pregnant women and girls to
go until and past the time of birth regardless of whether they are
considering adoption or parents. Most of these places offer you information
and classes in both areas. On top of that there is not one hospital (and I
say this being pretty sure its a fact) that has an entire nursing staff and
dr. staff that are so pro-adoption that they would ALL force this choice on
a patient. In fact many nurses will either not talk about the baby at all
or ask if you are ok or sure about your decision since this determines
whether or not you will be (usually) on the maternity ward afterwards and
whether they will hand the baby to you immediately (your choice and they
will ask). AND every hospital has social workers in it. These workers are
not adoption workers and have no reason to be more adoption prone or
parenting prone when it comes to their dealings with patients. MANY
agencies offer a plethora of referralls for services to help those who want
to keep their babies.
I have seen more young girls forced by parents into abortions than ever seen
adoptions (none as a matter of fact).
| > Agreed.
| >
| > | What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain
| > | birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary
| > | relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing
that
| > | could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am
| > | against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather
| > | glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share
the
| > | same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important
than
| > | 20+ years of love and care.
| > |
| > | I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as
you
| > | do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the
best
| > | decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with
that
| > | decision, is a victim of the opressors.
| > |
| > |
| > Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not
| > languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone for
making
| > me do it.
| > |
| > | Linda
| > | Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth
| > |
| > | PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on
| > | earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e.
| > | your milage may vary.
| >
| > Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If it werent
for
| > people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine the future
my
| > child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, through their
| > love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommys
like
| > me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. As a
| > birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and special
that
| > they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childs
adoptive
| > family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) and I
| > hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child.
|
|
| Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry.
| You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love.
| If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room !
| You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you
| never represent yourself as
| such. You ignorance is astounding.
| I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader.
| I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront
| her *** one day.

You crack me up. What is wrong with adoptive parents? I gotta know this.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

sylak

11-26-2004, 06:17 PM

Hopefully, if she does choose to connect with her biological roots you will
have left her a trail she can find.

Raymond

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:A3Qpd.64826$IQ.19963@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. . "Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message news:20041126184413.12394.00001323@mb-m28.aol.com... | Bad writes of her birth son: | | >My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and | >complete that he has no need to know me. >> | | <snip> | | Bad, this sounds to me as if you either feel you are not worthy of his future | attention and caring or that you have bought into one of the many adoption | myths, the myth that happy and fulfilled adoptees will never feel a need to | know birth relatives. Either way, your statements sound sad to me. Perhaps you | and your son will not be drawn together one day, but perhaps you will. If that | becomes your reality, I hope you will be able to accept him into your life | without feeling unworthy or worrying that his life must not have been good | enough. | | | P2P No, I have just left it up to my child to decide if a future relationship will take place. My wish that she has a fullfilled and happy life regardless of whether we ever meet. I hold no expectations for the future with her but also would be over joyed to meet her some day. Why would I feel unworthy? I was actually told by the adoption agency to expect her to look for me. According to statistics I have read (for ex. a study that reviewed estimates abroad and in the United States Muller & Perry, 2001) suggest around 50% of adoptees search for their birth families. This varies by study of course but from what I have seen ,that appears reliable, I have about a 50/50 chance of seeing my child again. Im Ok with that. I am not hanging on to some hope that the day she turns 18 ill get a knock on the door. I prepared for it but if it happens it happens. If not then thats OK too. -- BaD *** Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 06:40 PM

"sylak" <sylak@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:xqydnQEtgapOfjrcRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
| Hopefully, if she does choose to connect with her biological roots you
will
| have left her a trail she can find.
|
| Raymond
|
|
Not a problem since she has every bit of information about me there is to
know. I contact them with every move, phone number change, cell phone
numbers, etc. Not much of a mystery for her to figure out.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| news:A3Qpd.64826$IQ.19963@bignews6.bellsouth.net.. .
| >
| > "Palms2pines" <palms2pines@aol.comh8spam> wrote in message
| > news:20041126184413.12394.00001323@mb-m28.aol.com...
| > | Bad writes of her birth son:
| > |
| > | >My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full
and
| > | >complete that he has no need to know me. >>
| > |
| > | <snip>
| > |
| > | Bad, this sounds to me as if you either feel you are not worthy of his
| > future
| > | attention and caring or that you have bought into one of the many
| > adoption
| > | myths, the myth that happy and fulfilled adoptees will never feel a
need
| > to
| > | know birth relatives. Either way, your statements sound sad to me.
| > Perhaps
| > you
| > | and your son will not be drawn together one day, but perhaps you will.
| > If
| > that
| > | becomes your reality, I hope you will be able to accept him into your
| > life
| > | without feeling unworthy or worrying that his life must not have been
| > good
| > | enough.
| > |
| > |
| > | P2P
| >
| > No, I have just left it up to my child to decide if a future
relationship
| > will take place. My wish that she has a fullfilled and happy life
| > regardless of whether we ever meet. I hold no expectations for the
future
| > with her but also would be over joyed to meet her some day. Why would I
| > feel unworthy? I was actually told by the adoption agency to expect her
| > to
| > look for me. According to statistics I have read (for ex. a study that
| > reviewed estimates abroad and in the United States Muller & Perry, 2001)
| > suggest around 50% of adoptees search for their birth families. This
| > varies
| > by study of course but from what I have seen ,that appears reliable, I
| > have
| > about a 50/50 chance of seeing my child again. Im Ok with that. I am
not
| > hanging on to some hope that the day she turns 18 ill get a knock on the
| > door. I prepared for it but if it happens it happens. If not then
thats
| > OK
| > too.
| > --
| > BaD *** Me
| > **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**
| >
| >
| >
|
|

LilMtnCbn

11-26-2004, 07:04 PM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)Date: 11/26/2004 6:28 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.com>"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...

Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry.

Oh dear. Her experience is different from yours, so you have to call her
names.

You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love.

See BadA. I told you Scarlett would confiscate your bmom membership.

If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room !

Better put that beer down first. You might hurt yourself.

You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope younever represent yourself assuch.

Where's the sisterhood? Where's the love?

Then again, I'm beginning to suspect that your definition of "natural" mother
doesn't include bathing (after the smegma comments). How do you know when you
run into another "natural" mother? Do you sniff each other's butts?
You ignorance is astounding.

Rich.
I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader.I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confronther *** one day.

I'm not sure what an adotpee is, but you sure don't sound too content!

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

Jack Bernhard

11-26-2004, 07:15 PM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411261512.314921c5@posting.google.c om...
Kl, Whats the matter ? Is the truth a little too much for the adoptees ?

The truth, as I see, is subjective.

Huh ? Got you thinking about mommy and daddy and why you were left out ? Awwwww I suggest having your adopters hold your hand through it all and then you'll be okay. Maybe badass has some brains left , but maybe your adopters dropped you on your brain. What is apparent is, my true post must bother you enough to make you respond with your drivel. Did you ever really get to know your real parents?

Ahhh..."real parents". I've too many of 'em. I've said it before, and I'll
say it again, they're all very real to me.

Or did your adopters make sure it was all about them ? You haven't the strength to have a thought of your own. You are another " obligated adoptee". You were trained well by handlers .And its shows . Your real parents must cringe, at the site of you selling out to the industry . But thats okay, you can not help it, your just showing, what your mind has been fed. Your another adoption industry causalty. You have been brainwashed into believeing you owe your very soul to your adopters.

Ye gads! Hyberbole is too weak a word.

Lets guess, you also were saved from a " imagined" horrible existence, that you would have had if you stayed where you belonged, with your real mom and dad. Yeah right ! Yeah, you and every other adoptee, believe the same story. That your adopters "saved" you.

That's a rather worn out perspective, at least around these parts. My
experience tells me that my life, in general terms, would have been about
the same one way or the other.

Thats what they want you to think and have obviously done a good job on you. Your very existence is threatened, at the sight of the truth an it shows.

Yes, Scarlett, you've seen the truth and us poor Bastards have yet to have
the scales fall from out eyes.

Jack

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 07:28 PM

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041126220422.06555.00000782@mb-m24.aol.com...
| >Subject: Re: Wondering
| >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West)
| >Date: 11/26/2004 6:28 PM Mountain Standard Time
| >Message-id: <54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.com>
| >
| >"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| >news:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
|
|
| >Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry.
|
| Oh dear. Her experience is different from yours, so you have to call her
| names.
|
|
| >You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love.
|
| See BadA. I told you Scarlett would confiscate your bmom membership.
|

Well, just see if I pay my dues next month.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

|
| >If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room !
|
| Better put that beer down first. You might hurt yourself.
|
|
| >You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you
| >never represent yourself as
| >such.
|
| Where's the sisterhood? Where's the love?
|
| Then again, I'm beginning to suspect that your definition of "natural"
mother
| doesn't include bathing (after the smegma comments). How do you know when
you
| run into another "natural" mother? Do you sniff each other's butts?
|
| >You ignorance is astounding.
|
| Rich.
|
| >I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader.
| >I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront
| >her *** one day.
|
| I'm not sure what an adotpee is, but you sure don't sound too content!
|
|
|
| -------------------------
| A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend
will
| be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
| -----Unknown

Dian

11-26-2004, 08:35 PM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om... | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... | > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | > | | > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | > | >> >only | > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | > | >> > welcome? | > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | > | >> > parents, | > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | > | >> > whole | > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | >> | > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | > | >> However, | > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | > | >> free | > | >> to join in :) | > | > | > | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > | > out of her mind ". | > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > | > the eyes of adopters. | > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > | > where he is at. | > | > Good Luck | > | > Scarlett | > | | > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | > | | > | KL | > |KL | Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your | opinion. | You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption | industry labels placed upon them. | But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your | term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? | There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting | than others. | Just ask your natural mom. In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms they use in replying.

So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?

If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each person should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that others may not be comfortable with the same ones. | > | | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child | > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes | > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their | > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and | > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo | > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand | > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one | > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is | > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super | > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. | | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" | only used in a derogatory sense. I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory. Most adoption groups use the term | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally from what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I have lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I have pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved. Many from | the previous generations are not aware, ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager anymore I am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought me older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a child bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use the same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My mothers generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends were adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or adulthood. My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was with my adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never mention it. "People didnt talk about such things" that this is improper | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , | consider the term an insult. | But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no | longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The | majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. | Scarlett I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s mom to call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child? If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural, what then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being derogitory towards the adoptive family?

Dian

11-26-2004, 08:46 PM

"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<30oqlgF32nbh4U1@uni-berlin.de>... "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:9a095db9.0411260531.4b19cc4c@posting.google.c om... "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<iszpd.61211$IQ.5048@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411252134.3d574cf@posting.google.co m... | sfi30@yahoo.com (Lainie Petersen) wrote in message news:<671d8c26.0411251538.73fcdb2e@posting.google.com>... | > "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... | > > I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? | > > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, | > > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole | > > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > Nah, everyone is welcome to post here...just be prepared to give as | > good as you get. | > | > The anti-birthparent sentiment that you see here actually has more to | > do with the actions of several individual birthparents than any hatred | > of birthparents as a class. | > | > Lainie | > birthmom/adoptee | | If there are " birthparents" are adoptees considered "afterbirth | children" ? | Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term " | birthparent". | Its out dated and archaic. | As with many terms that are insensitive and derogatory. | Black people, were once called "coloreds". | The Police Squad roll truck was once called the "Patty Wagon" Thus | named after all the Irish Drunks picked up . A term never used | anymore. | Indians were once called "red men". | And the list goes on and on. | By calling yoursleves "birthmothers" your denying significance and | falling | into a language specifically created to demean natural mothers. | Here is a link this on adoption terminolgy. | | http://www.netaxs.com/~sparky/adoption/aspeak.htm | | Scarlett Natural mother? I gave birth...that naturally makes me a mother? OK. Well, my childs mom takes care of _, nurtures _, provides for _, cries and laughs with_ ....naturally she is a mother. In fact I bet if you lined to two of us up and asked (K) who mommy was shed go for her mom every time.....naturally. I am the birth mom because I am the one who gave birth. She is the adoptive mom because...yep...she adopted _. Much like 'Thing 2' I will also accept other terms: Nancy-----that makes her (her name) The other mom---------makes her the other mom besides me Mom 2 (or one)-----------shed be 1 (or2) I have no preference Mother-----------while she would be Mommy Biological mother-----------Non-biologically related mother and like Think 2 (from Cat in the Hat) I will also accept Chocolate Thunda, but only on Tuesdays! If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk about offensive) of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother. All things being equal, if you are the birth mother that makes her the afterbirth mother. So the true agenda of those who insist on "natural" mother emerges. To portray the adoptive mother as "unnatural". Afterall, as you say, all things being equal, if you are the natural mother that maker her the unnatural mother. Kathy 1

Huh? What's unnatural about the afterbirth?

BaD aSs Me

11-26-2004, 09:07 PM

"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
| > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om...
| > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message
| > news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1...
| > | > |
| > | > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| > | > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| > | > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > | > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| > | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this
group
| > is
| > | > | >> >only
| > | > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth
parents
| > | > | >> > welcome?
| > | > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards
birth
| > | > | >> > parents,
| > | > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt
getting
| > the
| > | > | >> > whole
| > | > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | > | >>
| > | > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best
impression,
| > eh?
| > | > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents,
etc.
| > | > | >> However,
| > | > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and
discuss.
| > Feel
| > | > | >> free
| > | > | >> to join in :)
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her
child
| > | > | > out of her mind ".
| > | > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands
".
| > | > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives,
why
| > | > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ?
| > | > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It
would
| > be
| > | > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ".
| > | > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still
using
| > the
| > | > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all
about ?
| > | > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term
created by
| > | > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers
importance, in
| > | > | > the eyes of adopters.
| > | > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered
| > | > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters
like
| > to
| > | > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother,
I,m
| > | > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural
mother.
| > | > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough
| > about
| > | > | > where he is at.
| > | > | > Good Luck
| > | > | > Scarlett
| > | > |
| > | > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology
we
| > use
| > | > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't
mind
| > the
| > | > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
| > | > |
| > | > | KL
| > | > |KL
| > | Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your
| > | opinion.
| > | You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption
| > | industry labels placed upon them.
| > | But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your
| > | term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ?
| > | There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting
| > | than others.
| > | Just ask your natural mom.
| >
| > In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the
terms
| > they use in replying.
|
| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?
|
|
Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much.
After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in
contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new picture
of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably
preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with her
and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I made
some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them.
Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg women
than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for
support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncing
board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or give
them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just
wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or
friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related to
what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room was
basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be
angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able to
leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some idea
of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that came
up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to put
the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was a
great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girls
and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional
experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feel
as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I
know to a 15 yr old that is ancient.
|
|
| If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too.
| > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is
| > 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when
discussing
| > her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable
| > using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each
person
| > should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that
others
| > may not be comfortable with the same ones.
| >
| > | > |
| > | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first
time I
| > have
| > | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my
child
| > | > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This
makes
| > | > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their
| > | > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is
granny
| > and
| > | > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo
| > | > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and
grgrand
| > | > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie.
Thing
| > one
| > | > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp)
he is
| > | > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing,
| > Super
| > | > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve
seen
| > it.
| > |
| > | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother"
| > | only used in a derogatory sense.
| >
| > I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory.
| >
| > Most adoption groups use the term
| > | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from .
| >
| > LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally
from
| > what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I
have
| > lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a
| > family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I
have
| > pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved.
| >
| > Many from
| > | the previous generations are not aware,
| >
| > ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager
anymore I
| > am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought
me
| > older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a
child
| > bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use
the
| > same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My
mothers
| > generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends
were
| > adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee
| > generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or
adulthood.
| > My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was
with my
| > adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never
mention
| > it. "People didnt talk about such things"
| >
| > that this is improper
| > | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know ,
| > | consider the term an insult.
| > | But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no
| > | longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The
| > | majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of
| > | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency.
| > | Scarlett
| >
| > I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and
| > 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s
mom to
| > call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child?
| > If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural,
what
| > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being
| > derogitory towards the adoptive family?

Robin Harritt

11-27-2004, 01:43 AM

Dian wrote:
"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the termsthey use in replying.So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?

Yes that's what's really frightening isn't it.

Robin

sylak

11-27-2004, 05:28 AM

I believe it was Mark Twain who is credited with the saying: "never wrestle
with a pig; you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it".

Raymond

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:nIRpd.117405$Tq1.57170@bignews1.bellsouth.net ... "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.google.c om... | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... | > "Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message | > news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu... | > | In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, | > | BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote: | > | >I can also spin plates on my head :-) | > | > | > | >BaD *** Me | > | >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | > | | > | | > | Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spin plates | > | on her head belongs here. | > | | > | Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here in alt.a--the | > | angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and after insulting | > | and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something to the | > | effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother. I am | > | a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damn universe | > | and you should spend all your time paying attention to me and pitying me. | > | Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home." | > | | I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother as | well as a natural mother. | You need to do your homework before you assume anything about me. | I speak my truth and understanding as to the way I see adoption. | You can read it or not. | I never said anyone was being mean to me and in fact enjoy the | exchange. | You assume I ask for pity ?? no honey WRONG pity is for punks. I | do not need any pity. | I am happy with my latest adoption. | May I ask how many adoptions you have been party to? Were the birth or natural mom each time or are you also an adoptive mom? | | > Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is when I have | > put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victim in my | > eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you | > causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, its just | > living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just fall off! | > | > | Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parents are | > | unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade, single | > | women were often forced to give up their babies against their will, and | > | that was a crime. | > | | | WRONG it was not only is that era , it still exists today and is | going on now . | Most adopters turn a blind eye to forced and cocerced adoptions. | they do this so they can sleep well at night knowing they have taken | another womans child. | In order for them to live with themselves they keep lying to | themselves saying " they woman did not want the child anyway". | OMG. Do you know how an adoption takes place? You are alone with a judge and several lawyers and asked 'Are you doing this willingly' 'Are you being forced?' 'Are you being paid?' 'Has there been promise of payment?' The he explains what this proceeding means and again with the questions..do you understand bla bla bla. No one is allowed in chamber in most states because of the fact that you may be forced and that person is there. Besides that there are a plethora of places for pregnant women and girls to go until and past the time of birth regardless of whether they are considering adoption or parents. Most of these places offer you information and classes in both areas. On top of that there is not one hospital (and I say this being pretty sure its a fact) that has an entire nursing staff and dr. staff that are so pro-adoption that they would ALL force this choice on a patient. In fact many nurses will either not talk about the baby at all or ask if you are ok or sure about your decision since this determines whether or not you will be (usually) on the maternity ward afterwards and whether they will hand the baby to you immediately (your choice and they will ask). AND every hospital has social workers in it. These workers are not adoption workers and have no reason to be more adoption prone or parenting prone when it comes to their dealings with patients. MANY agencies offer a plethora of referralls for services to help those who want to keep their babies. I have seen more young girls forced by parents into abortions than ever seen adoptions (none as a matter of fact). | > Agreed. | > | > | What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain | > | birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary | > | relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thing that | > | could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I also am | > | against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather | > | glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who share the | > | same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more important than | > | 20+ years of love and care. | > | | > | I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes as you | > | do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made the best | > | decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms with that | > | decision, is a victim of the opressors. | > | | > | | > Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not | > languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone for making | > me do it. | > | | > | Linda | > | Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth | > | | > | PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no way on | > | earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV, i.e. | > | your milage may vary. | > | > Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If it werent for | > people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine the future my | > child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, through their | > love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommys like | > me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. As a | > birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and special that | > they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childs adoptive | > family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) and I | > hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child. | | | Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry. | You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love. | If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room ! | You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you | never represent yourself as | such. You ignorance is astounding. | I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader. | I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront | her *** one day. You crack me up. What is wrong with adoptive parents? I gotta know this. -- BaD *** Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

sylak

11-27-2004, 05:39 AM

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I know there is a large hole in the
fabric of my being. I would like to know who I am. I seek nothing other than
that knowledge. Why? I have no idea. The two people who caused me to come
into this world (I prefer the term bio-parents) are, in all probability,
dead. I expect, at some time, the young lady that you brought into this
world will ask her own questions. Since she apparently has all the
information about you she may not feel the need to look you up. I expect it
is different for each of us.

Raymond

Robibnikoff

11-27-2004, 05:44 AM

"Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54767e41.0411262052.4272ef63@posting.google.c om...

snip Well thats even better than what your group nerd has to say . A little small. But I'm sure no one expects much from you. There is some hope for you if you could learn to expand a few more sentences.

*****, believe me, I'm giving just what your rants deserve - no more, no
less.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Robin Harritt

11-27-2004, 06:11 AM

Mark Twain is usually attributed with saying "Never try to teach a pig
to dance. It wastes your
time and annoys the pig."

He also said "Never argue with a fool in public, as it might confuse
innocent bystanders as to who is who".

Some people here would do well to reflect upon the latter quote.

Robin

sylak wrote:
I believe it was Mark Twain who is credited with the saying: "never wrestlewith a pig; you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it".Raymond"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:nIRpd.117405$Tq1.57170@bignews1.bellso uth.net..."Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:54767e41.0411261728.3ea4fe1a@posting.g oogle.com...| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in messagenews:<pEKpd.116947$Tq1.39775@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...| > "Linda Fortney" <lfortney@dc.umd.edu> wrote in message| > news:co7m9m$d2b@marple.umd.edu...| > | In article <0Bspd.58552$IQ.7645@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,| > | BaD *** Me <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote:| > | >I can also spin plates on my head :-)| > | >| > | >BaD *** Me| > | >**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I amright!**| > || > || > | Bad ***, I think you are already one of us. Anyone who can spinplates| > | on her head belongs here.| > || > | Miz Scarlett is a character type we are familiar with here inalt.a--the| > | angry birthmother. There have been many such here, and afterinsulting| > | and boring everyone for a while eventually they declare something tothe| > | effect of "You are just being mean to me because I am a birthmother.I am| > | a member of the most victimized class of people in the whole damnuniverse| > | and you should spend all your time paying attention to me andpityingme.| > | Since you won't I am going to take my little red wagon and go home."| > || I am not an angry birthmother, in fact I am an adoptive mother as| well as a natural mother.| You need to do your homework before you assume anything about me.| I speak my truth and understanding as to the way I see adoption.| You can read it or not.| I never said anyone was being mean to me and in fact enjoy the| exchange.| You assume I ask for pity ?? no honey WRONG pity is for punks. I| do not need any pity.| I am happy with my latest adoption.|May I ask how many adoptions you have been party to? Were the birth ornatural mom each time or are you also an adoptive mom?|| > Yea well I realize the only time I have been a victim in life is whenIhave| > put myself in those positions by bad choices. And I am not a victiminmy| > eyes but a survivor. The other stuff in life that happens without you| > causing it...well some of it sucks but that isnt being victimized, itsjust| > living. The world sucks...but if it didnt then we'd all just falloff!| >| > | Do not think for a moment though that I and other adoptive parentsare| > | unaware of injustices in adoption. In the era before Roe v. Wade,single| > | women were often forced to give up their babies against their will,and| > | that was a crime.| > ||| WRONG it was not only is that era , it still exists today and is| going on now .| Most adopters turn a blind eye to forced and cocerced adoptions.| they do this so they can sleep well at night knowing they have taken| another womans child.| In order for them to live with themselves they keep lying to| themselves saying " they woman did not want the child anyway".|OMG. Do you know how an adoption takes place? You are alone with a judgeand several lawyers and asked 'Are you doing this willingly' 'Are youbeingforced?' 'Are you being paid?' 'Has there been promise of payment?'The he explains what this proceeding means and again with thequestions..doyou understand bla bla bla. No one is allowed in chamber in most statesbecause of the fact that you may be forced and that person is there.Besides that there are a plethora of places for pregnant women and girlstogo until and past the time of birth regardless of whether they areconsidering adoption or parents. Most of these places offer youinformationand classes in both areas. On top of that there is not one hospital (andIsay this being pretty sure its a fact) that has an entire nursing staffanddr. staff that are so pro-adoption that they would ALL force this choiceona patient. In fact many nurses will either not talk about the baby at allor ask if you are ok or sure about your decision since this determineswhether or not you will be (usually) on the maternity ward afterwards andwhether they will hand the baby to you immediately (your choice and theywill ask). AND every hospital has social workers in it. These workersarenot adoption workers and have no reason to be more adoption prone orparenting prone when it comes to their dealings with patients. MANYagencies offer a plethora of referralls for services to help those whowantto keep their babies.I have seen more young girls forced by parents into abortions than everseenadoptions (none as a matter of fact).| > Agreed.| >| > | What I take umbrage with is the notions of certain| > | birthmothers, aka C.B.s is that there is no such thing as voluntary| > | relinquishment, all adoptions are coerced, the worst possible thingthat| > | could happen to a child is to be adopted by loving parents. I alsoam| > | against the notion that adoptive parents are not parents but rather| > | glorified babysitters and the only true parents are those who sharethe| > | same DNA as their children. In other words, DNA is more importantthan| > | 20+ years of love and care.| > || > | I also object to C.B. rhetoric that claims that anyone who writes asyou| > | do must be "in denial." In their eyes, anyone who says I made thebest| > | decision I could at a time of crisis and I have come to terms withthat| > | decision, is a victim of the opressors.| > || > || > Im used to it. I have been called all kinds of evil because I am not| > languishing with guilt over the adoption and I dont blame someone formaking| > me do it.| > || > | Linda| > | Adoptive mother of the amazing Elizabeth| > || > | PS As an adoptive parent, let me reassure you that there is no wayon| > | earth I could love any child more than I love my daughter. YMMV,i.e.| > | your milage may vary.| >| > Hey, I LOVE adoptive parents. It takes a special person. If itwerentfor| > people like you and other adoptive families I can not imagine thefuturemy| > child would have had. Adoptive parents make it possible, throughtheir| > love, dedication, perserverience (sp) and desire to parent, for mommyslike| > me to give their sons and daughters the life they desire for them. Asa| > birth mom I know I am lucky to have a family so wonderful and specialthat| > they deserved my child as their own. I have talked to my childsadoptive| > family (actually it was really cool considering the circumstances) andI| > hope as much to meet them someday as I do my child.||| Ewwww an nasty sell out, brainwashed by the adoption industry.| You are the sterotyped " birthmother' adopters love.| If I saw you in person I would ***** slap you across the room !| You are a shame, to all natural mothers everywhere and I hope you| never represent yourself as| such. You ignorance is astounding.| I,m done, you adopters can have this kiss *** cheerleader.| I am content knowing she is going to have an angry adotpee,confront| her *** one day.You crack me up. What is wrong with adoptive parents? I gotta know this.--BaD *** Me**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

LilMtnCbn

11-27-2004, 09:41 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.netDate: 11/27/2004 6:39 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <EfadnRAWF7YbHjXcRVn-uQ@adelphia.com>I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I know there is a large hole in thefabric of my being. I would like to know who I am. I seek nothing other thanthat knowledge. Why? I have no idea. The two people who caused me to comeinto this world (I prefer the term bio-parents) are, in all probability,dead. I expect, at some time, the young lady that you brought into thisworld will ask her own questions. Since she apparently has all theinformation about you she may not feel the need to look you up. I expect itis different for each of us.Raymond

Good post, Raymond. Here's an essay by Abigail Lovett you might enjoy. She's
my hero.

http://www.adoptionforum.org/Library/Articles/an_adoptees_advice.htm

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

BaD aSs Me

11-27-2004, 09:42 AM

"sylak" <sylak@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:EfadnRAWF7YbHjXcRVn-uQ@adelphia.com...
|I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I know there is a large hole in
the
| fabric of my being. I would like to know who I am. I seek nothing other
than
| that knowledge. Why? I have no idea. The two people who caused me to come
| into this world (I prefer the term bio-parents) are, in all probability,
| dead. I expect, at some time, the young lady that you brought into this
| world will ask her own questions. Since she apparently has all the
| information about you she may not feel the need to look you up. I expect
it
| is different for each of us.
|
| Raymond
|
|
I expect it is different. I think it is a shame that all adoptions dont
continue on with with eventual reunion of all involved (except of course in
abuse situation etc). even if only briefly and out of curiousity.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

pb...

11-27-2004, 01:08 PM

Palms2pines wrote:
Scarlett rants about the word "birthmother":Most mother's I know ,consider the term an insult.>> Oh. I think I can guess who you hang out with. Could it be the "One and Only Center of the Universe First and Most Important Mothers Who Gave Birth to a Child that Was Ripped From Their Arms by the Conspiracy of Evil Unnatural Baby Snatchers Coalition"? P2P

There you go again! Givin' all the credit to dem lousy "Conspiracy of Evil
Unnatural Baby Snatchers Coalition!" Sheesh, Woman -- when are ya gonna start
givin' dem Cat-O-Licks some of the credit they so richly deserve...eh?

pb...

pb...

11-27-2004, 01:15 PM

Palms2pines wrote:
Scarlett proposes:Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "birthparent".Its out dated and archaic.>> I am curious. What do you propose as your label of choice for adoptive parents? I like "nuturing parents" myself, though other might consider it pompous. P2P

Dearest Palms2Pompous,

I'm votin' fer PARENTS. Period.

pb...

pb...

11-27-2004, 01:16 PM

Palms2pines wrote:
BaD makes way too much sense for some: <snip>If I am the natural mother then she is the....un-natural mother? (talk aboutoffensive)of course if I am the Birth Mother then she is the Adoptive mother.THese at lease accurately relate our relationship to the child. I am themother because I gave birth and she is the mother because she adopted. Oranother way to put it is that I became (K)'s mother through giving birth to_. She became the mother by adopting (K).-- You're going to have to stop making so much sense, BaD. You are going to cause a lot of blown fuses. P2P

Time for you to get out the secret software, dust it off, toss it in the
CD tray, and do a wee bit o' checkin' -- you know the drill. ;-)

pb...

pb...

11-27-2004, 01:25 PM

BaD *** Me wrote:
"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:30on23F34bc0dU1@uni-berlin.de... | | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | news:Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net... |

Time for a breather, Bad ***. Below you will find refs to:

1. he

2. his

3. two instances of THREE dots, as in the elipse, which has
been a part of my online writing since 1991 -- as opposed
to the TWO dots you just posted which has been used by
another regular poster to this ng.

Looking to confuse folks, Bad ***? You got your whip out a bit
too soon for the main feature, dear.

My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and complete that he has no need to know me. If he does search...not much a search really...then I will be overjoyed to answer quesitons, be a part of his life, and hopefully have a relationship with him.

pb...

sylak

11-27-2004, 01:49 PM

Parents is what I have always used and see no reason to change that. That is
what they were (they have both passed on) and that is what they will always
be in my heart. Once more, I speak only for myself.

Raymond

"pb..." <woodlark-99@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:coaqjk1ngq@news1.newsguy.com... Palms2pines wrote: Scarlett proposes:Lets have eduacted ourselves enough, not to use the term "birthparent".Its out dated and archaic.>> I am curious. What do you propose as your label of choice for adoptive parents? I like "nuturing parents" myself, though other might consider it pompous. P2P Dearest Palms2Pompous, I'm votin' fer PARENTS. Period. pb...

Robibnikoff

11-27-2004, 07:31 PM

"sylak" <sylak@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:AKadnRe33fXlazXcRVn-jA@adelphia.com... Parents is what I have always used and see no reason to change that. That is what they were (they have both passed on) and that is what they will always be in my heart. Once more, I speak only for myself.

I'll be honest, before I searched for my bmom, my "parents", i.e, my
adoptive parents, were my parents. I only make the difference in this forum
to assist people here so they know whom I'm discussing.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

Dian

11-28-2004, 01:11 AM

Robin Harritt <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:<30r0hdF2v6uuuU9@uni-berlin.de>... Dian wrote:"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the termsthey use in replying.So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? Yes that's what's really frightening isn't it.

......and that's putting it mildly.

Robin

Dian

11-28-2004, 01:26 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om... | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... | > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | > news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om... | > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... | > | > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | > | > | | > | > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | > | > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > | > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > | > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | > | > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | > | > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | > | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | > | > | >> >only | > | > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | > | > | >> > welcome? | > | > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | > | > | >> > parents, | > | > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the | > | > | >> > whole | > | > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | >> | > | > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? | > | > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | > | > | >> However, | > | > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel | > | > | >> free | > | > | >> to join in :) | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > | > | > out of her mind ". | > | > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > | > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > | > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > | > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | > | > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > | > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | > | > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > | > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > | > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > | > | > the eyes of adopters. | > | > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > | > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to | > | > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > | > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > | > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > | > | > where he is at. | > | > | > Good Luck | > | > | > Scarlett | > | > | | > | > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use | > | > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the | > | > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | > | > | | > | > | KL | > | > |KL | > | Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your | > | opinion. | > | You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption | > | industry labels placed upon them. | > | But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your | > | term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? | > | There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting | > | than others. | > | Just ask your natural mom. | > | > In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms | > they use in replying. | | So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? | | Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much. After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new picture of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with her and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I made some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them. Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg women than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncing board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or give them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related to what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room was basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able to leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some idea of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that came up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to put the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was a great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girls and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feel as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I know to a 15 yr old that is ancient.

oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were
more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise?
Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how
blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over
say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way
and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing
adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the
questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning
clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from
home?

Di | | | If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. | > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is | > 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing | > her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable | > using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each person | > should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that others | > may not be comfortable with the same ones. | > | > | > | | > | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have | > | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child | > | > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes | > | > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their | > | > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and | > | > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo | > | > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand | > | > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one | > | > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is | > | > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super | > | > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. | > | | > | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" | > | only used in a derogatory sense. | > | > I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory. | > | > Most adoption groups use the term | > | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . | > | > LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally from | > what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I have | > lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a | > family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I have | > pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved. | > | > Many from | > | the previous generations are not aware, | > | > ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager anymore I | > am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought me | > older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a child | > bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use the | > same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My mothers | > generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends were | > adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee | > generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or adulthood. | > My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was with my | > adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never mention | > it. "People didnt talk about such things" | > | > that this is improper | > | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , | > | consider the term an insult. | > | But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no | > | longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The | > | majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of | > | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. | > | Scarlett | > | > I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and | > 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s mom to | > call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child? | > If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural, what | > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being | > derogitory towards the adoptive family?

Robin Harritt

11-28-2004, 04:16 AM

Dian wrote:
"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>..."Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in messagenews:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.g oogle.com...
||| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?||

Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much.After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still incontact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new pictureof 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probablypreg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with herand we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I madesome wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them.Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg womenthan preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there forsupport and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncingboard for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or givethem advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they justwanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family orfriend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related towhat they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room wasbasically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, beangry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able toleave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some ideaof how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that cameup my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to putthe guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was agreat experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girlsand women and their situations that it became more of an emotionalexperience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feelas though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and Iknow to a 15 yr old that is ancient.oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you weremore of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise?Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and howblessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption oversay, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this wayand can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosingadoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all thequestions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planningclinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly fromhome?Di

Don't be sorry for asking those questions Di, I'm sure a number of
inquiring minds would like to know.

Robin

LilMtnCbn

11-28-2004, 06:34 AM

>Subject: Re: WonderingFrom: Robin Harritt ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentosDate: 11/28/2004 5:16 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <30ttsaF34565nU1@uni-berlin.de>
oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you weremore of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise?Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and howblessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption oversay, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this wayand can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosingadoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all thequestions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planningclinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly fromhome?DiDon't be sorry for asking those questions Di, I'm sure a number ofinquiring minds would like to know.Robin

Yep.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

BaD aSs Me

11-28-2004, 10:46 AM

"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9a095db9.0411280126.2f3c267d@posting.google.c om...
| "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
| > news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om...
| > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om...
| > | > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| > | > | > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message
| > news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1...
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om...
| > | > | > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>...
| > | > | > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. ..
| > | > | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if
this
| > group
| > is
| > | > | > | >> >only
| > | > | > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth
| > parents
| > | > | > | >> > welcome?
| > | > | > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards
| > birth
| > | > | > | >> > parents,
| > | > | > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt
| > getting
| > the
| > | > | > | >> > whole
| > | > | > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post.
| > | > | > | >>
| > | > | > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best
| > impression,
| > eh?
| > | > | > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive
parents,
| > etc.
| > | > | > | >> However,
| > | > | > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and
| > discuss.
| > Feel
| > | > | > | >> free
| > | > | > | >> to join in :)
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put
her
| > child
| > | > | > | > out of her mind ".
| > | > | > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good
hands
| > ".
| > | > | > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child
lives,
| > why
| > | > | > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it
?
| > | > | > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them "
It
| > would
| > be
| > | > | > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ".
| > | > | > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still
| > using
| > the
| > | > | > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all
| > about ?
| > | > | > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term
| > created by
| > | > | > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers
| > importance, in
| > | > | > | > the eyes of adopters.
| > | > | > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually
considered
| > | > | > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See
Adopters
| > like
| > to
| > | > | > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your
birthmother,
| > I,m
| > | > | > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural
| > mother.
| > | > | > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried
enough
| > about
| > | > | > | > where he is at.
| > | > | > | > Good Luck
| > | > | > | > Scarlett
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | What makes you think we care what you think about what
terminology
| > we
| > use
| > | > | > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and
don't
| > mind
| > the
| > | > | > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | KL
| > | > | > |KL
| > | > | Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about
your
| > | > | opinion.
| > | > | You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption
| > | > | industry labels placed upon them.
| > | > | But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for
your
| > | > | term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with
that ?
| > | > | There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more
fitting
| > | > | than others.
| > | > | Just ask your natural mom.
| > | >
| > | > In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use
the
| > terms
| > | > they use in replying.
| > |
| > | So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?
| > |
| > |
| > Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much.
| > After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am
still in
| > contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new
picture
| > of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably
| > preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with
her
| > and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I
made
| > some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them.
| > Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg
women
| > than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for
| > support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a
bouncing
| > board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or
give
| > them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just
| > wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or
| > friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it
related to
| > what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room
was
| > basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be
| > angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be
able to
| > leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some
idea
| > of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that
came
| > up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to
put
| > the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It
was a
| > great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the
girls
| > and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional
| > experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to
feel
| > as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I
| > know to a 15 yr old that is ancient.
|
| oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were
| more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise?
| Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how
| blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over
| say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way
| and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing
| adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the
| questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning
| clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from
| home?
|
I was a support person for alot of different women/girls in different
positions. Some preg, some not. (most not). The majority chose parenting,
then abortion and the minority chose adoption. If they asked about personal
knowledge in the areas of adoption or parenting I did share however with
abortion I dont feel I have had enough personal experience to share anything
helpful. THe furthest I went with that was sharing my experience with the
procedure as far as how it was done, what it felt like, recovery time etc.
Other than that my situation didnt apply since my fetus was dead before
hand. I worked in that area for aprox 4 yrs anywhere for 2 - 5 days a week.
Somedays I may only talk with 1 lady while others I might talk to 5 or 6. I
cant even guess as to how many in total I met with. I did volunteer my time
but the place was not a medical facility and it was not associated with any
abortion, adoption or any other organization or business of that type. The
goal was to assist females and their partners in getting information to help
them decide the course of their pregnancies.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

| Di
| > |
| > |
| > | If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too.
| > | > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses
is
| > | > 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when
| > discussing
| > | > her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt
comfortable
| > | > using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each
| > person
| > | > should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that
| > others
| > | > may not be comfortable with the same ones.
| > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first
| > time I
| > have
| > | > | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what
my
| > child
| > | > | > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it.
This
| > makes
| > | > | > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls
their
| > | > | > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One
is
| > granny
| > and
| > | > | > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo
| > | > | > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and
| > grgrand
| > | > | > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess
movie.
| > Thing
| > one
| > | > | > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates
(sp)
| > he is
| > | > | > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King
Thing,
| > Super
| > | > | > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if
youve
| > seen
| > it.
| > | > |
| > | > | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother"
| > | > | only used in a derogatory sense.
| > | >
| > | > I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory.
| > | >
| > | > Most adoption groups use the term
| > | > | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from .
| > | >
| > | > LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am
originally
| > from
| > | > what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however
I
| > have
| > | > lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by
a
| > | > family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I
| > have
| > | > pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those
involved.
| > | >
| > | > Many from
| > | > | the previous generations are not aware,
| > | >
| > | > ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager
| > anymore I
| > | > am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you
thought
| > me
| > | > older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was
a
| > child
| > | > bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group
use
| > the
| > | > same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My
| > mothers
| > | > generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends
| > were
| > | > adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an
adoptee
| > | > generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or
| > adulthood.
| > | > My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was
| > with my
| > | > adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never
| > mention
| > | > it. "People didnt talk about such things"
| > | >
| > | > that this is improper
| > | > | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know ,
| > | > | consider the term an insult.
| > | > | But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no
| > | > | longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The
| > | > | majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out
of
| > | > | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency.
| > | > | Scarlett
| > | >
| > | > I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and
| > | > 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for
(K)'s
| > mom to
| > | > call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child?
| > | > If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural,
| > what
| > | > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being
| > | > derogitory towards the adoptive family?

BaD aSs Me

11-28-2004, 10:48 AM

"Robin Harritt" <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message
news:30ttsaF34565nU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Dian wrote:
|
| >"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message
news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
| >
| >
| >>"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
| >>news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om...
| >>
| >>
|
| >>|
| >>|
| >>| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women?
| >>|
| >>|
| >>
| >>
|
|
| >>Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much.
| >>After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am
still in
| >>contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new
picture
| >>of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably
| >>preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with
her
| >>and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I
made
| >>some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them.
| >>Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg
women
| >>than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for
| >>support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a
bouncing
| >>board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or
give
| >>them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just
| >>wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or
| >>friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it
related to
| >>what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room
was
| >>basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be
| >>angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be
able to
| >>leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some
idea
| >>of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that
came
| >>up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to
put
| >>the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It
was a
| >>great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the
girls
| >>and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional
| >>experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to
feel
| >>as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I
| >>know to a 15 yr old that is ancient.
| >>
| >>
| >
| >oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were
| >more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise?
| >Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how
| >blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over
| >say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way
| >and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing
| >adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the
| >questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning
| >clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from
| >home?
| >
| >Di
| >
| >
|
|
|
| Don't be sorry for asking those questions Di, I'm sure a number of
| inquiring minds would like to know.
|
|
| Robin

Oh and while I mainly worked out of the home I did take work home on many
weekends by answering the 24 hr line from home.
--
BaD *** Me
**My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!**

Dian

11-29-2004, 02:02 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<fOvqd.57280$jE2.55408@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:9a095db9.0411280126.2f3c267d@posting.google.c om... | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... | > "Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message | > news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om... | > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... | > | > "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | > | > news:54767e41.0411252313.4664e2d3@posting.google.c om... | > | > | "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... | > | > | > "KL" <klbjornme@aohell.com> wrote in message news:41a6a1f2_3@127.0.0.1... | > | > | > | | > | > | > | "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message | > | > | > | news:54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.c om... | > | > | > | > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message | > | > | > | > news:<30m17iF31q5h6U1@uni-berlin.de>... | > | > | > | >> "BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | > | > | > | >> news:60ipd.43462$jE2.38626@bignews4.bellsouth.net. .. | > | > | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this | > group | > is | > | > | > | >> >only | > | > | > | >> > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents | > | > | > | >> > welcome? | > | > | > | >> > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth | > | > | > | >> > parents, | > | > | > | >> > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt | > getting | > the | > | > | > | >> > whole | > | > | > | >> > picture since I didnt read each and every post. | > | > | > | >> | > | > | > | >> LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best | > impression, | > eh? | > | > | > | >> Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. | > | > | > | >> However, | > | > | > | >> it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and | > discuss. | > Feel | > | > | > | >> free | > | > | > | >> to join in :) | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | > | > | > | > out of her mind ". | > | > | > | > Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | > | > | > | > First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | > | > | > | > not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | > | > | > | > Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It | > would | > be | > | > | > | > in your best interest to let me see my child ". | > | > | > | > Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still | > using | > the | > | > | > | > archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? | > | > | > | > As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by | > | > | > | > the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in | > | > | > | > the eyes of adopters. | > | > | > | > The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered | > | > | > | > offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters | > like | > to | > | > | > | > use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m | > | > | > | > your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. | > | > | > | > Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about | > | > | > | > where he is at. | > | > | > | > Good Luck | > | > | > | > Scarlett | > | > | > | | > | > | > | What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology | > we | > use | > | > | > | for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't | > mind | > the | > | > | > | terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | KL | > | > | > |KL | > | > | Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your | > | > | opinion. | > | > | You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption | > | > | industry labels placed upon them. | > | > | But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your | > | > | term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? | > | > | There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting | > | > | than others. | > | > | Just ask your natural mom. | > | > | > | > In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms | > | > they use in replying. | > | | > | So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? | > | | > | | > Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much. | > After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in | > contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new picture | > of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably | > preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with her | > and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I made | > some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them. | > Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg women | > than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for | > support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncing | > board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or give | > them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just | > wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or | > friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related to | > what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room was | > basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be | > angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able to | > leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some idea | > of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that came | > up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to put | > the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was a | > great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girls | > and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional | > experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feel | > as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I | > know to a 15 yr old that is ancient. | | oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were | more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise? | Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how | blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over | say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way | and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing | adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the | questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning | clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from | home? | I was a support person for alot of different women/girls in different positions. Some preg, some not. (most not). The majority chose parenting, then abortion and the minority chose adoption. If they asked about personal knowledge in the areas of adoption or parenting I did share however with abortion I dont feel I have had enough personal experience to share anything helpful. THe furthest I went with that was sharing my experience with the procedure as far as how it was done, what it felt like, recovery time etc. Other than that my situation didnt apply since my fetus was dead before hand.

I don't understand. Were you a support person for adoption etc or
miscarriage grief?

I worked in that area for aprox 4 yrs anywhere for 2 - 5 days a week. Somedays I may only talk with 1 lady while others I might talk to 5 or 6. I cant even guess as to how many in total I met with. I did volunteer my time but the place was not a medical facility and it was not associated with any abortion, adoption or any other organization or business of that type. The goal was to assist females and their partners in getting information to help them decide the course of their pregnancies. -- BaD *** Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | Di | > | | > | | > | If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. | > | > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is | > | > 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing | > | > her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable | > | > using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each person | > | > should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that others | > | > may not be comfortable with the same ones. | > | > | > | > | > | | > | > | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first | > time I | > have | > | > | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child | > | > | > calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes | > | > | > about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their | > | > | > grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is | > granny | > and | > | > | > the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo | > | > | > woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand | > | > | > chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. | > Thing | > one | > | > | > and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is | > | > | > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super | > | > | > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve | > seen | > it. | > | > | | > | > | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" | > | > | only used in a derogatory sense. | > | > | > | > I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory. | > | > | > | > Most adoption groups use the term | > | > | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . | > | > | > | > LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally from | > | > what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I have | > | > lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a | > | > family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I have | > | > pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved. | > | > | > | > Many from | > | > | the previous generations are not aware, | > | > | > | > ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager anymore I | > | > am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought me | > | > older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a child | > | > bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use the | > | > same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My mothers | > | > generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends were | > | > adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee | > | > generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or adulthood. | > | > My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was with my | > | > adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never mention | > | > it. "People didnt talk about such things" | > | > | > | > that this is improper | > | > | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , | > | > | consider the term an insult. | > | > | But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no | > | > | longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The | > | > | majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of | > | > | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. | > | > | Scarlett | > | > | > | > I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and | > | > 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s mom to | > | > call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child? | > | > If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural, what | > | > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being | > | > derogitory towards the adoptive family?

Dian

11-29-2004, 02:07 AM

"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<gOvqd.57281$jE2.42282@bignews4.bellsouth.net>... "Robin Harritt" <ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos> wrote in message news:30ttsaF34565nU1@uni-berlin.de... | Dian wrote: | | >"BaD *** Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message news:<3XTpd.65689$IQ.36407@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... | > | > | >>"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message | >>news:9a095db9.0411262035.65f55d7b@posting.google.c om... | >> | >> | >>| | >>| | >>| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? | >>| | >>| | >> | >> | | | >>Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much. | >>After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in | >>contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new picture | >>of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably | >>preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with her | >>and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I made | >>some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them. | >>Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg women | >>than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for | >>support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncing | >>board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or give | >>them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just | >>wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or | >>friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related to | >>what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room was | >>basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be | >>angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able to | >>leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some idea | >>of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that came | >>up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to put | >>the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was a | >>great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girls | >>and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional | >>experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feel | >>as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I | >>know to a 15 yr old that is ancient. | >> | >> | > | >oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were | >more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise? | >Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how | >blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over | >say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way | >and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing | >adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the | >questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning | >clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from | >home? | > | >Di | > | > | | | | Don't be sorry for asking those questions Di, I'm sure a number of | inquiring minds would like to know. | | | Robin Oh and while I mainly worked out of the home I did take work home on many weekends by answering the 24 hr line from home.

What qualifications did you have?