Poor little babies. They certainly didn't ask to be born into this. Very
difficult article to read.

Yet, my cynical post-adoption Aparent sarcasm goes off knowing what I know
about the international adoption industry in the United States.

U.S. Christian & Mormon adoption agency directors and facilitators are
probably salavating at the thought of tapping into Pakistan's untapped
female infant surplus.


Elizabeth

"Elizabeth Case" <dancase@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<rpOcd.10$8A5.3@news01.roc.ny>... Poor little babies. They certainly didn't ask to be born into this. Very difficult article to read. Yet, my cynical post-adoption Aparent sarcasm goes off knowing what I know about the international adoption industry in the United States. U.S. Christian & Mormon adoption agency directors and facilitators are probably salavating at the thought of tapping into Pakistan's untapped female infant surplus. Elizabeth

Frankly -- bully for them! It's great that someone wants them.

If these kids are raised in good Mormon or Christian homes, and become
enthusiastic proselytisers, it's still a better life than a miserable
orphanage.

Not, probably, that Pakistan is going to let anyone get them. India
has similar surpluses, and acts as though the world is in conspiracy
to steal our treasures. An act I'd find a great deal more convincing
if the same people would turn around and do a bit more than
warehousing most of the unwanted kids in orphanages.

Rupa

Rupa:

So many people want to adopt those little babies - myself included.

It's just the greed factor on the part of the middlemen involved in the
United States that is horrid.

Bring in the US agencies and watch the prices rise through the roof
(Guatemala, Russia, Georgia, Romania, Vietnam, Cambodia....)

Of course, us US citizens are willing to pay the money, so it's like a dog
chasing its taile constantly.

I wish there was a better way to do this.

Elizabeth

"Elizabeth Case" <dancase@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<kmXcd.97$mC5.21@news01.roc.ny>... Rupa: So many people want to adopt those little babies - myself included. It's just the greed factor on the part of the middlemen involved in the United States that is horrid. Bring in the US agencies and watch the prices rise through the roof (Guatemala, Russia, Georgia, Romania, Vietnam, Cambodia....) Of course, us US citizens are willing to pay the money, so it's like a dog chasing its taile constantly. I wish there was a better way to do this. Elizabeth

There are lots of ways; but I think they're "unamerican."

Scandinavia has a very active overseas adoption program, and a lot of
Indian kids go there. I haven't heard of any serious money issues.

What I would love to see is the equivalent of "orphan trains" from
India. Orphan planes, maybe. I know it probably sounds horrid to
people who think of that as a relic of a dark past -- but the fact is,
Indian kids, Pakistani kids, a lot of third-world kids need the homes.
And they're not going to get them in their home country.

Of course the right-wing nationalists in India would squawk at that
rape of national honor, and show us the stories of individual kids who
have 20-30 families willing to adopt them. But unless they're prepared
to put every orphan in the news, the orpphanages in India will remain
over-crowded and under-resourced.

Rupa

>Rupa:So many people want to adopt those little babies - myself included.It's just the greed factor on the part of the middlemen involved in theUnited States that is horrid.Bring in the US agencies and watch the prices rise through the roof(Guatemala, Russia, Georgia, Romania, Vietnam, Cambodia....)Of course, us US citizens are willing to pay the money, so it's like a dogchasing its taile constantly.I wish there was a better way to do this.Elizabeth

I suspect that there is, Elizabeth, and that the world is slowly working its
way toward it. Right now, as I understand it, the money is simply going into
different pockets than it did 5, 10, or more years ago, as more governments
take over the process and fewer private adoptions occur.

I'm surprised to find that they can be less expensive than I have expected. A
quick and dirty look at Google gave me figures for an adoption from China
beginning at US $11,300. (over $16,000. with travel for two); from India
beginning at $13,500., plus travel. So long as there are those who promise
they can get paps to the head of the line, however, there will be paps willing
to pay the price.

J.






Reply to jmhjmd at aol.

>"Elizabeth Case" <dancase@frontiernet.net> wrote in messagenews:<kmXcd.97$mC5.21@news01.roc.ny>... Rupa: So many people want to adopt those little babies - myself included. It's just the greed factor on the part of the middlemen involved in the United States that is horrid. Bring in the US agencies and watch the prices rise through the roof (Guatemala, Russia, Georgia, Romania, Vietnam, Cambodia....) Of course, us US citizens are willing to pay the money, so it's like a dog chasing its taile constantly. I wish there was a better way to do this. ElizabethThere are lots of ways; but I think they're "unamerican."Scandinavia has a very active overseas adoption program, and a lot ofIndian kids go there. I haven't heard of any serious money issues.What I would love to see is the equivalent of "orphan trains" fromIndia. Orphan planes, maybe. I know it probably sounds horrid topeople who think of that as a relic of a dark past -- but the fact is,Indian kids, Pakistani kids, a lot of third-world kids need the homes.And they're not going to get them in their home country.Of course the right-wing nationalists in India would squawk at thatrape of national honor, and show us the stories of individual kids whohave 20-30 families willing to adopt them. But unless they're preparedto put every orphan in the news, the orpphanages in India will remainover-crowded and under-resourced.Rupa

Reduce cost per unit by shipping more units, eh? ;-}

Makes sense to me.

J.




Reply to jmhjmd at aol.

J:

I know EAC (European Adoption Consultants) has a higher fee for China than
most agencies. China is "moving" faster than it was a year or so ago but
I'm not sure of the girls are as "healthy" as they used to be. "Healthy"
being a relative term.

At least with a Chinese adoption, the agency controls NOTHING. The only
thing the American agency can do is forward your paperwork to the proper
adoption bureau in Beijing.

[those of you who have adopted from China, please correct me if I am wrong]

Oh yes that money it's going into different pockets and that money is still
flowing freely from PAPs in the good old USA. Although, for Russian
adoptions, there are still some of the same big coffers being filled by
certain facilitation services and agencies in the United States.

I agree with your statement: "as long as there are those who promise
they can get paps to the head of the line, however, there will be PAPs
willing
to pay the price" for I was one of those PAPs (now an Aparent).

Elizabeth

jmdjmh@aol.compostible (J.) wrote Reduce cost per unit by shipping more units, eh? ;-} Makes sense to me.

There you go.

When we adopted, the cost was very low.

The birthmother's lying-in was free at a charitable hospital.

Our pediatrician charged a small fee to examine the baby.

The agency charged a very small admin fee, which covered the home
study as well as a couple of surprise visits to see how our kid was
getting on.

The lawyer who drew up the papers worked nearly pro-bono, her fee was
so small. In fact, I suspect most of it was to cover various court
charges.

We did get a number of people who asked us to celebrate by giving them
tips, an accepted way of celebration in India.

Even allowing for the difference in cost structures generally between
a high-cost and a low-cost country, I don't think it would have cost
more than the equivalent of, say $3-5,000. Of course, it was
in-country, so there were no travel costs.

I think many of the costs are being driven by market forces. And of
course, as you say, higher volumes would lower unit costs. Not to
mention that it might actually reduce the burden on the orphanages
back in India, thereby improving the lot of those that remain behind
as well.

Rupa