A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial
issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like
food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I
attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback
arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of
several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer
declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.

Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of
which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting
a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously
they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably
those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would
like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for
all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this
is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt
in the first place and who represents an organization which itself
obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would
ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this
collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this
point. Advice welcome, thanks.

fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financialissues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things likefood and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, Iattempted to contact the card issuer to work out a paybackarrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period ofseveral weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuerdeclared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.
<snip>

A credit card issuer declared bankruptcy? Care to say which one? I've not
heard of this. I have heard of c card companies being bought out, and I have a
hard time figuring how such a company could screw up so bad as to go bankrupt.

Fork,

Hiring a lawyer will not change the fact that the collection agency has
acquired your debt and has a lien in your house since you are in default.
Pay the collection agency. You seem to believe that about $3000 of your debt
is unreasonable amounts of interest, fees, and late penalties. Get an
accounting and dispute any claims that you wish but remember that the lien
on your house will not be lifted until your debt is cleared.

Good luck,
Dave M

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:48:37 -0400 fork_in_road@bantamservices.com
(Fork_In_Road) wrote:

:>A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial
:>issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like
:>food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I
:>attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback
:>arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of
:>several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer
:>declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.

:>Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of
:>which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting
:>a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously
:>they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably
:>those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would
:>like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for
:>all intents and purposes no longer exists.

It is in receivership.

It cannot negotiate (without approval of the receiver).

Anything you pay it will go to the receiver.

:> I will not, however, (this
:>is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt
:>in the first place and who represents an organization which itself
:>obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

I fail to see the connection.

:>Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would
:>ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this
:>collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this
:>point. Advice welcome, thanks.

The debt is true.

The receiver is authorized to collect.

Fail to see how you can remove the lien without paying.

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

In article <3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com>, Fork_In_Road
<fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote:
Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

You need to understand how bankruptcy works. When a company becomes
insolvent, they have a series of debts and a series of assets. The
assets are sold off, and the money is used to repay at least
something to the debtholders. In this case, the accounts that were
owed to the original company were an asset. These assets (accounts)
were sold, and the money went to pay some of the debt owed to the
debtholders.

You still owe the debt, no matter who currently owns that debt.
There is no "original debt holder" to straighten things out with.
The collection group who is now on your case is the current, legal,
authorized first party that you need to settle with. They are not
a third party.
Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point.

Not any more, unless you can prove some kind of illegal activity.
Your chance to defend this action was when the judgement was obtained.
That is when you needed advice, and that is when you could have used
the help of an attorney.

Most companies only go to court on issues like this after they have
used up all their other options. Court is expensive, and leins take
a long time to collect on. These companies almost always are open to
settlements. You likely could have sent them $500 and been off the
hook. Rather, you now owe $6K, and they will get that $6k when you
sell your house.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financialissues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things likefood and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, Iattempted to contact the card issuer to work out a paybackarrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period ofseveral weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuerdeclared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts ofwhich I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of gettinga judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviouslythey searched for those account holders that had assets - probablythose without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I wouldlike to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who forall intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this

It is not your choice. Debts can be reassigned.
is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debtin the first place and who represents an organization which itselfobviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

Well, no. If the company that is after you to pay your debt
bought up the assets of the bankrupt company, they are not
representing the bankrupt company. Also, the bankrupt company's
creditors might have been fully paid by the liquidation (though I
grant this does not seem likely).
Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf wouldultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but thiscollector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at thispoint. Advice welcome, thanks.

I do not know about the lawyer part. "trumped up"? It may
simply be finance charges in accordance with the original agreement.
Maybe you can work out a settlement. Get proof that they are the
holders of the debt first.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message
news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com...
<snip>I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

I have no personal experience with liens for unpaid debts, but as part of
DH's identity theft problem we became aware of businesses which essentially
"buy" bad debt for pennies on the dollar. If that's what's happened in your
case, you can bet your deadbeat booty that they've got just as much legal
right to be repaid as as the original creditor. It probably wouldn't hurt to
see an attorney--they might get the bill reduced--although personally I'd
love to see them take your house.

Trust me: if you see an attorney and tell them you think making payments to
a third party is "non-negotiable"--which is a pretty convenient attitude for
you to take if the original creditor no longer exists--they're probably
going to tell you there's nothing they can do to help you.

In article <3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com>,
fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

it was an asset that was sold to the third party. you in fact owe the
money to the third party. Getting a lawyer only guarantees one result:
you will spend a lot of money on the lawyer and still be liable to the
collection agency.

As to your non-negotiable stance, feel proud that one of the reasons the
original holder of your debt went bankrupt is because you left it
holding the bag.

Fork_In_Road wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

Sorry, but if the collector has a judgment against you, there's
nothing more you can do. He's the one you owe the money to, not
anybody else.
Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

The only way you will get the lien removed is to pay it off. If it's
higher than it should be, the fact that it's a judgment (and one you
apparently did not participate in or appeal) is what you are stuck with.

Stu

In article <3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com>,
fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

Pay the money.

You don't deny that you owe the money. You don't get to choose who you
will pay it to, especially since the card issuer has gone bankrupt and
as you admit "no longer exists."

During the bankruptcy proceedings, the card issuer obviously sold its
accounts in order to raise money to pay off its secured creditors. Your
agreement with the issuer no doubt allows this and thus you are just as
responsible to pay the collector as you were to pay the original
creditor (the issuer).

An attorney can't help you here. The only way to have the lien removed
is the pay the debt off.
--
D.F. Manno
dommanno@netscape.net

I'm D.F. Manno, and I don't approve of George Bush's message.

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message
news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.
===============
You owe the money. It's not much different than if you had written a check
and it was endorsed to a third party. Best to figure out how to pay it now
that you have the capability.

SJF

fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote in message
news:<3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com>... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority.... Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house.... Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

This is very, very late to be taking action in your defense. If the
collector already has a judgment and a lien, you are pretty much his
lawful prey.

There is nothing to prevent a bill collector from buying up the
accounts receivable of another company and then collecting on them.
When this happens, you owe the collector, just as you would have owed
the original creditor.

If you had a defense against paying the original creditor, you might
have had a defense against the collector, under consumer finance laws,
but after a judgment is really late to be raising defenses.

See a lawyer, at least to find out what your obligations really are
and what may be the least damaging way out of them.

--
Not a lawyer,

Chris Green

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:48:37 -0400, fork_in_road@bantamservices.com
(Fork_In_Road) sat on her fat butt and wrote:
A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financialissues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things likefood and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, Iattempted to contact the card issuer to work out a paybackarrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period ofseveral weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuerdeclared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts ofwhich I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of gettinga judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviouslythey searched for those account holders that had assets - probablythose without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I wouldlike to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who forall intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (thisis non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debtin the first place and who represents an organization which itselfobviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf wouldultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but thiscollector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at thispoint. Advice welcome, thanks.

Nope, securing an attorney on your behalf will not get the lien
removed. The lien will be removed when the judgment is satisfied, and
not a day before, and there is NOBODY who can change that.

Now, with regard to the debt owed. Chances are that somewhere in the
miles and miles of fine print that you agreed to when you opened the
account, it stated that the original Creditor could ASSIGN this debt
any time he felt like it. Mortgage companies do this ALL THE TIME,
and it, in no way affects the validity of the debt. The original
Creditor assigned the debt to the collection agency and they are as
legally bound to collect it as if it were the original Creditor.

It is unfortunate that the company who originally held the debt has
gone bankrupt because you have lost all opportunity to negotiate out
of this mess. If you do not make some arrangements to pay this debt
in a timely manner, then not only will there be a lien against your
house, but your wages will be garnished and your personal property can
be seized and SOLD by the creditor for its cash value, to be put
against the judgment amount.

I strongly suggest getting in touch with the collection agency and
working out a payment schedule as soon as possible before the sheriff
comes by and seizes your television, stereo, vehicles and other
objects of value. You cannot win here.

Best of luck

Em

Fork_In_Road wrote: A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations.

So -- whoever acquired their accounts have whatever right
to your money that the original card issuer had. So --
you owe them the original amount PLUS interest at the
rate specified as of your last contact with them. If
they increased the rate further, that increase is probably
void -- but I'm not a lawyer.

The agency will probably accept the original amount
as payment in full -- something is better than nothing.

The lien on your house may be invalid, if you didn't have
notification of the proceedings in the judgement
was reached. (This is NOT the bankruptcy court.)

....
Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point.

See above. They'll probably accept 3k.

But I'm not a lawyer, and if you want to pay less than the 6k,
you may need one.

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

> Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

Declaring bankruptcy would do it, probably (which you need an attorney
to do). Or sell the house to somebody willing to assume that debt,
and the debt wouldn't follow you to your new residence (you should get
an attorney to sell your house).

Beyond that, you can pay what you owe and/or work out some sort of
settlement with the collector. You say you want to make things good
with the "original debt holder" but how can you do that when they no
longer exist, and while this third party didn't hold the debt in the
first place, they "bought the debt" essentially paid it off for you,
so they have every right to collect from you (however difficult that
may be).

fork_in_road@bantamservices.com (Fork_In_Road) wrote in message
news:<3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com>...

[Poster defaulted on credit card debt held by a company that went
bankrupt. His account was acquired by another company, which has
obtained a judgment against him and placed a lien on his home.]
My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

Assuming that your account was validly acquired by the successor in
interest to the original creditor, you probably have no colorable
defense to the debt. It sounds like the original creditor's assets
were liquidated in the bankruptcy proceeding. Pursuant to a
(presumably) valid acquisition of your account, and a (presumably)
valid court proceeding, the acquiring company obtained a (presumably)
valid judgment against you and a (presumably) valid lien on your home.
The fact that your original creditor may have been a deadbeat does
not affect your debt in any way.

Also, the fact that the debt -- whether originally valid or not -- has
now been reduced to a judgment may make it impossible for you to
dispute the amount of the debt. Even though it started out around
$3,000, if the creditor properly alleged (and proved, if required)
interest, costs, and fees that bring the total judgment to $6,000, you
probably will not be able to contest the figure at this late stage of
the game.

The validity of an alleged debt is something that must be disputed in
the lawsuit itself. You can't just sit back and wait to see what
happens, and then try to contest things after the judgment. The whole
purpose of the due process you get in court is to allow both sides to
present their evidence and arguments so a *final* decision can be made
(absent error in the procedure).

Now, if there was some error in the court proceedings, you may be able
to get the judgment modified or reversed. But there are time limits
for doing such things, so you should act fast (although it's probably
already too late because a lien has arisen).

You need to talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction immediately. Don't
wait.

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message
news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

Debts are bought and sold all the time, there's nothing new or novel there.
My house mortgage was transferred between 5 lenders in the 14 years I had
it. But though the loan went to a different company, they were obliged to
keep the terms the same.
I think the same principle will apply to you and your loan. Even though
the first lender went under, they could still sell their assets (your
obligation to them) to another lender, and the terms remain the same. As
far as the penalties and late fees and extra interest and etc goes, whatever
your original agreement was is what you are legally liable for.

As far as getting out of the obligation goes, here in Texas it's pretty
easy--just don't pay. Lender's can't put leins on your property (for now,
anyway), and about all they can do is get a judge to tell you to pay up.
But if you don't, they can't do anything about it because Texas doesn't have
a debtor's prison.
In your state, I dunno, you'll have to check and see what the regulations
are. I'm guessing that if they can legally put a lein on your house, and
let the amount of that lein swell up like a dead fish under a Texas summer
sun, I'd get the advice of a legal professional. Probably a bankruptcy
attorney would know what's what.

Good luck . . .
-Tock

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message
news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

I'm not a lawyer but I understand that it's perfectly legal to buy a
loan/debt. For instance mortgages are bought and sold on the open market.
When a company goes bankrupt they are pretty much required to sell their
assets to pay off their own creditors. In this case their assets included
outstanding loans. They can be sold to pretty much anybody.

If they've already got a Judgment against you then it sounds like your
opportunity to fight this has passed. They only way they can get a Judgment
is if their was a trial or you did not respond to the summons. In any case
there was a lawsuit filed against you and the Judge has already sided with
the collector. The time to get a lawyer is before the trail not after you've
already lost the case.

You best chance is if you somehow didn't know about the trial you might be
able to get a Judgment reversed. Did you get a summons?

If the Judgment stands they can pursue you for 10 to 20 years depending on
the state. They can put a lien against you house or car and garnish you
wages; not to mention destroying your credit.

Allowing things to go this far is not frugal. :(

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message
news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement. After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone). My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag. Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed? The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.


Again... one of the things I havent seen mentioned in the replies are that
your debt will
likely INCREASE as interest on the lien is allowed in most (all?) states.
It will surely be the
max the law allows under the circumstance.

Normally it will sit with the real estate. They may leave you alone taking
no action
to collect the debt UNTIL the property is sold or refinanced. Then the debt
will be
settled for you from the proceeds.

So that leaves your options as do nothing and pay later, personal bankruptcy
involving a move to avoid a lein (? think that's the right term -- not a
lawyer) or,
work out a payment plan now. The holder of the lien at this point has very
little
reason to work with you.

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m5iif01l3bn1lo6v146a4kcl20uh1ans7r@4ax.com...
A credit card issuer declared bankruptcy? Care to say which one? I've
not heard of this. I have heard of c card companies being bought out, and I
have a hard time figuring how such a company could screw up so bad as to go
bankrupt.

Yeah, tell me about it. I get the feeling that the OP may be referring to
NextCard. Remember them - and their annoying pop-up ads? As a former
stockholder, I sure do.

The firm was yet another dot-bomb that wound up going bust. Their bank
(NextBank) was seized by the OCC and turned over to the FDIC two days after
I bought the (now virtually worthless) stock. I've had some poorly timed
purchases in my day, but that one really took the cake. A highly
speculative investment <er, gamble> that clearly did not payoff. Lost a
bundle on the POS - still don't know what the hell I was thinking on that
one.

To make a long story short, the (very naive) company relied exclusively on
the web to obtain customers. The idea was that applicants could submit an
application online and -- thanks to its super-duluxe, highly-sophisticated,
proprietary-based, patent-protected "platform" -- be approved/issued a
credit card in a matter of seconds. Automation at its finest, right? Too
bad their model was a bit flawed (sound familiar?)

Fraud proved to be a major problem, further complicated by its somewhat
buggy software that would occasionally issue credit cards to applicants that
hadn't been approved during the application process, or erroneously approved
applicants who should have been rejected. The delinquent/charge-off rate
soared, and the rest is history. Guess it's a good example of why it's
usually not a good idea to rely (or invest - ouch!) exclusively on whatever
trendy technology happens to be in vogue...

Mike
-still wiping *** with NXCD stock certs - got a bag *full* of 'em!

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
A credit card issuer declared bankruptcy? Care to say which one?

NetBank? The notice I got when they cancelled my card suggested
that they were in receivership....

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

"Fork_In_Road" <fork_in_road@bantamservices.com> wrote in message news:3qcdf0d0fsfkd7obqhk56g4hnbhk68gtd6@4ax.com... A couple of years ago, as a result of job loss and other financial issues, I was forced to quit paying on a credit card

You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit
card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any
reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate.
You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances.
But it's still theft.
as things like food and shelter took priority. About a year after my default, I attempted to contact the card issuer to work out a payback arrangement.

What's to work out? For at least some period after you stopped paying the
monthly bill, you continued to get statements. Pull out the last one start
writing checks.
After not hearing from the issuer for a period of several weeks, I stumbled onto a press release stating that the issuer declared bankruptcy and ceased all operations. Since then, a collector has taken over some of the default accounts of which I'm one. This collector has pursued me to the point of getting a judgement rendered and now there is a lien on my house (obviously they searched for those account holders that had assets - probably those without homes were left alone).

Probably those who paid their bills on time were left alone too. Pointless
speculation - you don't know what they did about deadbeats who don't own any
real property. You do know what the did about those who do, since you're
one of them. Or do you fancy that you're the only one they tried to collect
from?
My problem is this: I would like to straighten things out with the original debt holder; who for all intents and purposes no longer exists. I will not, however, (this is non-negotiable) pay money to a third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place and who represents an organization which itself obviously left it's own creditors holding the bag.

My my my. Aren't we holier than thou. If the "organization" left it's own
creditors holding the bag, chances are it's because people like you didn't
pay their bills, which left them with no money. You borrowed the money.
You don't get to pick who you pay it back to.

Since you have a house that's had a lein placed against it, I'd guess that
means you have a mortgage. Tell us, would you, if the mortgage holder
continues to be the bank where you took out the loan originally or if it's
been sold. If the latter, does that mean you've climbed even higher up on
that horse of yours and have on principle declined to pay money to some
"third party who didn't hold the debt in the first place" or do you have
enough sense to dimly realize that if you take that stance you'll lose the
house? Tell us, please. Inquiring minds want to know.
Is this a situation where securing an attorney on my behalf would ultimately get the lien removed?

Sure, go ahead and hire an attorney. Maybe s/he'll be able to pound some
sense into your head. Let us know who you decide to consult so that we can
advise him or her to collect the fee for services about to be rendered up
front.
The original debt was 3k but this collector has trumped it up to around 6k (I stopped counting) at this point. Advice welcome, thanks.

The longer you wait, the more it'll cost.

> You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft.

No, it isn't. Not under federal law and not under state law. Even the bible
allowed people to avoid paying debts, through the "Jubile Year."

--
Brett

Lou wrote:
You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft.

Actually, that's wrong. To be theft, there has to have been an intent
to permenantly deprive the true owner of possession.

Stu

"Brett Weiss" <lawyer@brettweiss.com> wrote in message
news:f6e3g0hhp1uiaql6s326ou15ib7fgb4bqs@4ax.com... You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a
credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be
deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating
circumstances. But it's still theft. No, it isn't. Not under federal law and not under state law. Even the
bible allowed people to avoid paying debts, through the "Jubile Year."
If someone owed you money and didn't pay you back, I'll wage you'd be
tempted to call it theft. Nowhere did I say we lived in a reasonable world.

"Brett Weiss" <lawyer@brettweiss.com> wrote in message
news:<f6e3g0hhp1uiaql6s326ou15ib7fgb4bqs@4ax.com>... You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft. No, it isn't.

Unpaid credit card debt is sold and re-sold to and by speculators at
pennies on the dollar. There is (no surprise) a tendency for those who
buy cheap to be more and more unscrupulous: threats, overseas (and
hence unreachable by the US prosecutors) boiler room operators, lies,
harassment. Financial services operators who issue cards to the poor
tend to charge astronomic interest rates, to encourage payment of the
smallest monthly installment, and to rely on over-limit and
late-payment charges for a high proportion of their income. They are
the new loan sharks, and they set up in business in those states which
have the least, or no, controls and usury limits.

Often the only way to get rid of such predatory lenders is through
bankruptcy. If you don't like it, your complaint should not be to the
debtor but to your legislator. In fact, Congress -- after receiving
astronomic campaign contributions from the banks, has been trying to
pass a new Bankruptcy Law that will give -- read this -- higher
protection to credit-card issuers than to recipients of child support.
So it seems your priorities are shared by some others in the USA.

Stuart Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message
news:<gn7bg0tnh1letn8b97d6uns6qekfi8kpbg@4ax.com>... Lou wrote: You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft. Actually, that's wrong. To be theft, there has to have been an intent to permenantly deprive the true owner of possession.

So, if I take my neighbor's Mustang convertible without her
permission, intending only to drive it for a couple of days and then
return it, freshly washed and full of gas, that's not theft? Well, I
guess my weekend plans are made!

"Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<pn7bg0hv9ouh2ode2cacqm3s09f080ulhn@4ax.com>... If someone owed you money and didn't pay you back, I'll wage you'd be tempted to call it theft. Nowhere did I say we lived in a reasonable world.

Nah. I'd be tempted to call it "consignment", but having read
misc.legal.moderated for years now, I'd call it "improper conversion".

What bound him to pay me back? Was it a security interest? Then I'd
try to get the security object.
Was it his word, a promise? Then I'd press him on his honor (but if
I was helping a friend who was down on his luck, as a friend, and he
was then hit with unexpected further bad luck, I'd expect "I'll pay
you when I get back on my feet" to happen later than originally
expected.)
But if it was a contract, then I'm bound by the matrix of laws that
it exists in, including bankruptcy law.


--
- David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu>
Iacta alea est

In article <pr5gg0t68qvnrvf6ngam79ad2c8lkpqcsi@4ax.com>,
Tracy <tlbwriter@yahoo.com> wrote:Stuart Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in messagenews:<gn7bg0tnh1letn8b97d6uns6qekfi8kpbg@4ax.com>... Lou wrote: You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft. Actually, that's wrong. To be theft, there has to have been an intent to permenantly deprive the true owner of possession.So, if I take my neighbor's Mustang convertible without herpermission, intending only to drive it for a couple of days and thenreturn it, freshly washed and full of gas, that's not theft? Well, Iguess my weekend plans are made!

On your jury, I would vote not guilty of theft and guilty of use
without consent. That would put you in jail for a shorter time
than if you had stolen the car.

Most states have laws prohibiting unauthorized use of a motor vehicle,
to handle situations where it is not possible to prove theft beyond a
reasonable doubt and to provide a lesser penalty than felony theft.
The unauthorized use laws can also be use to punish passengers.

--
John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)

Tracy <tlbwriter@yahoo.com> wrote: Actually, that's wrong. To be theft, there has to have been an intent to permenantly deprive the true owner of possession.So, if I take my neighbor's Mustang convertible without herpermission, intending only to drive it for a couple of days and thenreturn it, freshly washed and full of gas, that's not theft? Well, Iguess my weekend plans are made!

If you do that, you'd better be prepared to prove by something more
objective than your own say-so that you only intended to use the car
for a short time.

Then you will get convicted of the lesser offense generally referred
to as "joyriding".

But if you get caught before you return the car and can't make a
showing that you intended to return it fairly quickly, you're facing a
felony conviction: Grand Theft Automobile. Besides a long jail term,
you can expect to lose the right to vote or to hold elective office in
most states. You may also be unable to teach in a public school, to
practice law, or to work in a childcare facility.
--
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and
to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising
liberty and justice for all.
Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.

"Tracy" <tlbwriter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pr5gg0t68qvnrvf6ngam79ad2c8lkpqcsi@4ax.com... Stuart Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote in message news:<gn7bg0tnh1letn8b97d6uns6qekfi8kpbg@4ax.com>... Lou wrote: You know, the reasons really don't matter. You borrowed money on a credit card. You promised to pay it back. To date, you haven't. In any reasonable world, that would be called theft. It might not be deliberate. You may not have planned to steal. There may be mitigating circumstances. But it's still theft. Actually, that's wrong. To be theft, there has to have been an intent to permenantly deprive the true owner of possession. So, if I take my neighbor's Mustang convertible without her permission, intending only to drive it for a couple of days and then return it, freshly washed and full of gas, that's not theft? Well, I guess my weekend plans are made!

It's not theft. However, it would be an intentional tort know as
conversion.