"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c901bee5.0411041732.ae65f38@posting.google.co m... Dumb David Touretzky. The professor is jerking off with too many issues. Lisa wasn't killed by anyone. Lisa's death was accidental. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Faxhor ================================================== ============== Lisa McPherson
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2416810272d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm=c901bee5.0410291137.16254958@posting.google.c om Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Dr. Robert Davis, who did the autopsy could not even support Dr. Wood's report that Lisa died gradually from dehydration. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood refused to produce the records to the court. ================================================== ============== CMU PROFESSOR DAVID TOURETZKY - NO EXPERT ON THE 1ST AMENDMENT http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0410221734.3e554d5b%40posting .google.com&output=gplain "I'm not taking Dr. Touretzky's view of the First Amendment as evidence. His testimony presupposes a view of the scope of the First Amendment on which he is not an expert, which is not a proper subject for testimony and which is ultimately for me and appellate courts to decide." - Judge Lewis A. Kaplan July 25, 2000 MPAA V. 2600 ================================================== ==============

"Genesis" <genesis1652@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<418ad390@news2.lightlink.com>... Well if her death was accidental why not answer a simple question.

Genesis, I asked you nicely to not address me in any way
at all. Please don't ask me questions either. You're
question is not an honest question, it is an accusation.
And stop lying by saying your question is "simple."


Faxhor

================================================== ==============
Would you like to see an example of a forgery created by
Genesis?

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=402e5160%40news2.lightlink.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3D402e5160%2540new s2.lightlink.com

Take a look at all the headers.

"Faxhor your clueless fool. You have tried in vain of course
to try to discredit many of person on this news group."
- genesis1652@hotmail.com
================================================== ==============

In article <c901bee5.0411121511.5f99a9ca@posting.google.com> faxhor@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c901bee5.0411041732.ae65f38@posting.go ogle.com... Dumb David Touretzky. The professor is jerking off with too many issues. Lisa wasn't killed by anyone. Lisa's death was accidental. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Faxhor ================================================== ============== Lisa McPhersonhttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2416810272d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm=c901bee5.0410291137.16254958@posting.google.c om Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Dr. Robert Davis, who did the autopsy could not even support Dr. Wood's report that Lisa died gradually from dehydration. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood refused to produce the records to the court. ================================================== ============== CMU PROFESSOR DAVID TOURETZKY - NO EXPERT ON THE 1ST AMENDMENT http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0410221734.3e554d5b@posting.g oogle.com&output=gplain "I'm not taking Dr. Touretzky's view of the First Amendment as evidence. His testimony presupposes a view of the scope of the First Amendment on which he is not an expert, which is not a proper subject for testimony and which is ultimately for me and appellate courts to decide." - Judge Lewis A. Kaplan July 25, 2000 MPAA V. 2600 ================================================== =============="Genesis" <genesis1652@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<418ad390@news2.lightlink.com>... Well if her death was accidental why not answer a simple question.

Death always comes too early or too late
Genesis, I asked you nicely to not address me in any wayat all. Please don't ask me questions either. You'requestion is not an honest question, it is an accusation.And stop lying by saying your question is "simple."

So what if you ask if they are question is not an honest question?
What are you?

--
Lady Chatterly

"Lady Chatterly, are you Robert Griffin?" -- Barbara Schwarz

"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c901bee5.0411121511.5f99a9ca@posting.google.c om... Genesis, I asked you nicely to not address me in any way at all. Please don't ask me questions either. You're question is not an honest question, it is an accusation. And stop lying by saying your question is "simple."


It's Usenet. Get over it.

On 12 Nov 2004 15:11:30 -0800, faxhor@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c901bee5.0411041732.ae65f38@posting.go ogle.com... Dumb David Touretzky. The professor is jerking off with too many issues. Lisa wasn't killed by anyone. Lisa's death was accidental. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Faxhor ================================================== ============== Lisa McPhersonhttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2416810272d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm=c901bee5.0410291137.16254958@posting.google.c om Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Dr. Robert Davis, who did the
Was driven crazy by scientology operatives..

Don't worry faxhor, you already are..


Scientology Doctor Faces Suspension
Tampa Tribune
Jul 25, 2001
By JOE FOLLICK jfollick@tampatrib.com

TALLAHASSEE - Nearly six years after the death of a Church of
Scientology
member, a doctor involved in the case faces a one- year license
suspension
and $10,000 fine.

Administrative Judge William F. Quattlebaum ruled in May that although
Clearwater physician David Minkoff was not responsible for the death
of
Lisa McPherson, he illegally prescribed Valium and chloral hydrate to
her
at the behest of other church members. Minkoff was also a member of
the
church.

"The risk ... from the practice of prescribing medication without
personal
knowledge of the patient is great," Quattlebaum wrote, suggesting
Minkoff
pay a $10,000 fine and be suspended from practicing for one year.

The Florida Board of Medicine is scheduled to meet in Tallahassee on
Aug.
3 to consider the recommended punishment. Board spokesman Bill Parizek
said Tuesday that the board's final decision is usually similar to a
judge's recommendation.

Minkoff's Tampa attorney, Bruce Lamb, said he could not comment until
he
had spoken with his client.

McPherson died in December 1995 after church members brought her to
Columbia New Port Richey Hospital, where Minkoff worked.

McPherson was alleged to have been confined by the church and denied
adequate medical treatment. Criminal charges against the church were
dropped last year after the autopsy reports were revised to reflect
that
the cause of death was "accidental."

Prior to the dismissal of charges, Pasco-Pinellas Medical Examiner
Joan
Wood said McPherson may not have had anything to drink for up to 17
days
prior to her death. Wood also said McPherson was bruised with cracked
skin, had cockroach bites on her body and was comatose for up to two
days
prior to being taken to the hospital.

Although admitting no guilt, Minkoff reached a $100,000 settlement in
1997
in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by McPherson's estate.

Joe Follick covers state government and can be reached at (850)
222-8382.



From Scientology's own filings in the case:

When a Scientology staffer used a syringe to force
a mixture of aspirin, Benadryl and orange juice
into McPherson's throat while others held her down,
it was "spiritual sustenance," the church argues.

If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:16:27 GMT, Lady Chatterly
<faxhor@catcher.in.the.rye> wrote:
In article <c901bee5.0411121511.5f99a9ca@posting.google.com> faxhor@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:



Scientology Faces Glare of Scrutiny After Florida Parishioner's Death

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In This Article The Commitment: Strong Beliefs And Large Donations The
Collapse: A Roller Coaster Barrels Downward The Death: From A Hotel
Room To An Emergency Room The Aftermath: An Investigation Expands, And
A Lawsuit Follows

Related Article In Clearwater, Fla., Grudges Against Scientology Are
Slow to Die


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By DOUGLAS FRANTZ
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Late on a November afternoon two years ago, a
36-year-old Scientologist named Lisa McPherson was involved in a minor
traffic accident. She was not injured, but she inexplicably stripped
off her clothes and began to walk naked down the street. A paramedic
rushed her into an ambulance and asked why she had taken off her
clothes. Ms. McPherson replied: "I wanted help. I wanted help."

She was taken to a nearby hospital for a psychiatric examination, but
several Scientologists arrived and explained that their religion
opposes psychiatry. Ms. McPherson asked to leave and, against medical
advice, she was released into the care of the Scientologists.

Seventeen days later, after being kept under 24-hour watch at a
Scientology-owned hotel in downtown Clearwater, Ms. McPherson was
dead. By church accounts, she had spit out food, banged violently on
the walls of her room and hallucinated. The county medical examiner
said Ms. McPherson was deprived of water for at least her last 5 to 10
days and died of a blood clot brought on by severe dehydration.

Church officials denied responsibility for the death and challenged
the medical examiner's findings. But the image of a healthy young
businesswoman slipping into dementia and dying inside the Church of
Scientology's landmark building here has rekindled deep suspicions in
this serene retirement community, which for two decades has been the
unlikely spiritual headquarters of one of the world's most-debated
churches.

Since moving here in 1975, Scientology has bought $32 million worth of
property, mostly downtown, and its 1,000 staff members are seen on
every downtown corner in their distinctive naval-type uniforms. Its
parishioners own dozens of businesses, and devotees come from around
the world each year to take upper-level Scientology courses available
only in Clearwater.

But despite its efforts to join the mainstream here and abroad, the
Church of Scientology has never completely overcome the distrust and
fear generated by its clandestine arrival in Clearwater more than 20
years ago. Only later was it discovered that Scientology had come here
with a written plan to take control of the city and silence anyone who
got in its way. Today, although the plan failed, suspicion runs so
high that the police assign an intelligence officer to monitor the
organization, and detectives are now concluding a two-year criminal
investigation into Ms. McPherson's death.

Even as it illuminates the church's relationship with this Gulf Coast
city, an examination of Ms. McPherson's life and death, including a
review of church records and other documents from a lawsuit filed by
her family, also offers an unusually rich look into the world of one
Scientologist. It shows how virtually every aspect of her life --
work, friendships, relationships with family members, even choices of
vacation spots -- was influenced by the church.

It also shows the financial demands Scientology places on its members,
and the tremendous value to the church of the landmark decision by the
Internal Revenue Service in 1993 to grant tax-exempt status to
Scientology.

Ms. McPherson worked at a business owned by Scientologists and spent
so much of her salary on church courses that she had to borrow from
her employer to keep up with her studies in church doctrine, according
to documents provided to The New York Times by lawyers for the family.
She was able to deduct the payments for those courses from her taxes,
but when she got her refund from the federal government, it was turned
immediately over to her employers to pay for more courses.

Since receiving tax-exempt status, Scientology has waged a campaign to
persuade members to increase contributions and take advantage of the
deduction.

For 25 years, the IRS had considered Scientology a commercial
enterprise and refused to give it the tax exemption granted to
churches. The refusals had been upheld by every court. The agency
reversed its position after a campaign by the church that involved
lawsuits, the use of private detectives to investigate IRS officials
and a meeting between the church leader and the IRS commissioner.

The financial pressure on members of Scientology is one reason critics
worldwide describe the church as a cult and money machine intended to
bilk the faithful, who pay large sums to undergo counseling sessions.
This is the primary reason given by the German government for refusing
to recognize Scientology as a religion.

Beyond the financial issues, the circumstances surrounding Ms.
McPherson's death raise questions about whether the church's handling
of her medical treatment, particularly its failure, for philosophical
reasons, to provide psychiatric care, contributed to her death.

For their part, church officials and lawyers said the death was
accidental, the result of an undetected blood clot. They accused the
Police Department of a vendetta and said the police would not have
investigated Ms. McPherson's death were she not a Scientologist.

Echoing the same stance they have taken in struggles with governments
around the world, church officials said that the days of covert
attacks on critics of the church were long over and that Scientology
simply wanted to be a good neighbor. They recite a list of civic
projects, from sponsoring Boy Scout troops to running a winter
carnival to raise food for the poor.

"Our goal is to be able to work with the community on community
activities, to help the city and help the people in the community to
survive better," said Ben Shaw, director of external affairs for
Scientology. "I think we have accomplished that in a lot of ways, with
a lot of people."

Some remain unconvinced, and the sometimes-sordid details surrounding
the death of Ms. McPherson have fed their anxieties.

"The death of Lisa McPherson reaffirms that what we heard 20 years ago
was true and I have not heard or seen anything to make me think they
have changed," said Clearwater's mayor, Rita Garvey, who won a fourth
term last year over an opponent backed by Scientologists. "They may be
here, but I'm not going to accept it. I refuse to meet with them."

The Commitment: Strong Beliefs And Large Donations

Certainly in her progression within Scientology, Ms. McPherson gave
more to her church than average Americans donate to traditional
churches. In the last two years of her life, she paid $97,000 for
Scientology courses with names like "Wall of Fire" and "New Life
Rundown." The payments amounted to 40 percent of her earnings.

Because of the IRS decision, Ms. McPherson could deduct her payments
as charitable gifts. In 1994, her payments of $55,767 led to a $17,500
tax refund, which, records turned over in the family's lawsuit show,
Ms. McPherson signed over to pay for more Scientology courses.

Scientology officials and lawyers said it was possible to advance
within the church without paying large sums and they scoffed at the
idea that there was anything unusual about Ms. McPherson's donations.

"She was a 36-year-old woman who had been a Scientologist for 13
years, and she could give whatever she wanted," said Laura L. Vaughan,
one of 20 lawyers hired by the church to deal with the McPherson
investigation and the wrongful-death suit brought by her family.
"There are a lot of people who give a heck of a lot of money to the
church."

Ms. McPherson's links to the church went beyond her donations. Like
many Scientologists, she made the church her life.

She was a sales representative for a small business owned by
Scientologists and operated according to the management theories of
the church founder, L. Ron Hubbard. Many of her co-workers and friends
were Scientologists and, when she fell behind her goals at work, she
submitted to Scientology techniques aimed at working through her
problems.

In keeping with the church's belief that people live many lifetimes,
Ms. McPherson signed what Scientology calls a "billion-year contract,"
as a member of the Sea Organization, Scientology's elite staff group.
Although she later resigned from the staff, she remained a devout
Scientologist. And when her life began to fall apart, she turned her
back on conventional medical treatment and sought refuge in
Scientology.

"For members who are deeply involved, Scientology becomes a totalistic
institution," said Stephen A. Kent, a sociologist at the University of
Alberta in Edmonton, Alberta, who has studied the organization. "It
provides them with everything from occupation, pseudo-medical
treatments, entertainment and a justice system to an overarching
purpose for their lives."

Ms. McPherson joined Scientology in 1982 in her hometown of Dallas.
Eleven years later, she arrived in Clearwater, part of the wave of
pilgrims to a city that, for reasons that remain unclear, Hubbard
selected as his mecca.

Ms. McPherson's employer, AMC Publishing Co., moved its operation from
Dallas to be closer to Scientology. AMC, which sells promotional
material to the insurance industry, is one of dozens of businesses
here that belong to the World Institute of Scientology Enterprises,
which uses the acronym WISE. These businesses operate according to
Hubbard's management theories and pay a fee to Scientology, usually 10
percent of annual earnings.

They often follow Scientology methods in dealing with discipline and
other workplace issues, and employees are encouraged to take church
courses.

Scientology describes itself as the only major new church to emerge in
the 20th century and boasts eight million followers worldwide, though
critics put the number at far less. Though its main offices are in Los
Angeles and Clearwater, the church maintains missions in many foreign
countries, including Germany and Britain. Its founder, Hubbard, said
people were immortal spirits who have lived through many lifetimes and
accumulated traumatic memories that are obstacles to achieving their
full potential.

Adherents believe that those afflictions can be eliminated through a
series of counseling courses, known as auditing. Most of the courses
involve detailed questioning about Scientology and the members' lives,
by church ministers who monitor responses with a crude lie detector
they call an E-meter. The result, after years of courses, is an
individual who is "clear" of problems.

In Clearwater, Ms. McPherson thrived at first. In 1994, she wrote to
an uncle that she was doing well and meeting stiff targets at work.
She was so successful that she earned commissions of $136,812.

And, on a personal level, she was repairing long-ruptured relations
with her mother, Fannie, back in Dallas. In a family videotape from
Dec. 31, 1994, Ms. McPherson laughs and chats with cousins in an easy
Texas drawl as they prepare for a New Year's party.

"Fannie had finally decided that she just had to ignore the
Scientology part if she wanted a relationship with Lisa and they had
been getting along so well," Dell Liebreich, one of Lisa's aunts,
recalled recently as she sifted through a box of her niece's
belongings at her home in Yantis, 80 miles east of Dallas.

Despite her income, Ms. McPherson lived frugally. She shared a
$695-a-month apartment with a roommate and bought little jewelry or
furniture. But no expense was spared when it came to Scientology.

Church financial records turned over in the family's lawsuit show that
Ms. McPherson paid $55,767 for Scientology courses in 1994 and
contributed $41,924 in 1995.

The Collapse: A Roller Coaster Barrels Downward

The final year of Ms. McPherson's life was tumultuous. In Scientology
terms, she was "roller coastering," meaning she was going through
emotional ups and downs. In June 1995, she apparently suffered a
mental breakdown. A report prepared after her death by the church
said, "She caved in and went into a spin (psychotic break)."

She spent two days recuperating at the Fort Harrison Hotel in
Clearwater, the church's primary retreat. Her payments to the church
fell sharply, but within a month she had resumed paying thousands of
dollars a week for courses.

Her commissions at work remained low, however, and she borrowed from
her employers to pay for the courses. AMC payroll records show that
Ms. McPherson borrowed more than $33,000 in 1995, and paid the same
amounts to the church for courses.

By September, she apparently had recovered enough to reach the coveted
status of clear. Photographs of her award ceremony show Ms. McPherson
beaming, and she wrote passionate letters of thanks to fellow
Scientologists.

But the roller coaster was headed down. In late October, she was on
the telephone to her mother, sobbing that she had let down her group
at work, her aunt said.

Two weeks later, she telephoned Kelly Davis, a childhood friend in
Dallas, and said she was going home to stay, by Christmas at the
latest, Ms. Davis said. In a sworn deposition, Ms. Davis said she
interpreted Ms. McPherson's remarks to mean that she was leaving the
church.

Her aunt, Mrs. Liebreich, said the family also thought that Ms.
McPherson was considering leaving Scientology. Church lawyers said she
had no intention of leaving the fold. Instead of planning on Christmas
in Dallas, the lawyers said, Ms. McPherson had made reservations for a
holiday cruise aboard Freewinds, a ship owned by the church.

She never went home or on the cruise.

About dusk on Nov. 18, 1995, Ms. McPherson was driving her 1993 Jeep
in Clearwater when she struck a boat being towed by a car that had
stopped for an earlier accident. Damage was minor and paramedics at
the scene examined Ms. McPherson and found her uninjured.

Then she took off her clothes and began to walk along the street.
Bonita Ann Portolano, one of the paramedics, helped her into the
ambulance. Mrs. Portolano said Ms. McPherson was muttering about not
needing a body to live and said she had taken off her clothes because
she wanted help.

In a later deposition, Mrs. Portolano estimated that Ms. McPherson
weighed 155 pounds. "She was a very healthy person, just voluptuous,"
the paramedic said.

After Ms. McPherson was taken to a nearby hospital, seven
Scientologists, including some senior officials arrived. She refused
psychiatric treatment and said she would not harm herself, and she was
released into the care of her fellow parishioners.

Although Scientologists do accept medical treatment, Ms. McPherson was
following the church's conviction in rejecting psychiatric care.
Church literature says psychiatrists were paid by the government to
denounce Scientology as a hoax when Hubbard, a successful science
fiction writer, began the church in 1954.

In 1969, the church created the Citizens Commission on Human rights,
which was supposed to expose and eradicate "human rights abuses by
psychiatry." In January 1974, Hubbard wrote a paper describing what he
called the "Introspection Rundown" for treating people who suffer
mental breakdowns. He said that the technique "possibly ranks with the
major discoveries of the 20th century" and that it would do away with
psychiatry.

The first step is to isolate the people who suffer breakdowns to
protect them and others. No one is allowed to speak to the people or
within their hearing, except to deliver lessons supposed to locate and
correct the problems that led to the breakdown.

The Death: From A Hotel Room To An Emergency Room

Lisa McPherson spent her final days in isolation in Room 174 at the
rear of the Fort Harrison Hotel. A church lawyer initially described
her stay to a local reporter as restful, and he said she had received
no medical treatment.

But 33 pages of handwritten logs tell a far bleaker tale. The logs
were released this summer on orders from the judge hearing the
McPherson estate's lawsuit.

Scientology staff members who monitored Ms. McPherson 24 hours a day
kept them, and the notes depict a woman whose mental condition
deteriorated rapidly and whose health began to fail well before she
died.

Two days into her stay, the logs recount Ms. McPherson spitting out
food and vomiting. The fourth day, she was ashen-faced and feverish.
She was often described as violent, striking her attendants and
banging on the walls.

She soiled herself and hallucinated that she was Hubbard. One of the
logs indicated that she tried to leave the room, but church lawyers
say that she was not restrained. Rather, Ms. Vaughan, one of the
lawyers, said, she was incapable of caring for herself.

Among those who cared for her was Dr. Janis Johnson, a member of the
church medical office. Dr. Johnson is a physician who is not licensed
to practice in Florida and had agreed to restrictions on her medical
license in Arizona in 1993 after two hospitals questioned her use of
prescription drugs.

On Dec. 1, 1995, Dr. Johnson administered a prescription sleep
medication to Ms. McPherson, and left written instructions that Ms.
McPherson be given two liters of liquid when she awoke.

Kennan Dandar, the lawyer for the McPherson estate, said two liters
was a substantial amount of liquid and that the instructions were an
indication that Ms. McPherson was in need of immediate medical
attention.

"They should have taken her to the hospital immediately," Dandar said.
"Instead, they kept her there until she died."

Notes for Dec. 2 and 3 indicate that Ms. McPherson drank some liquids
and was coherent at times. Scientology officials said they could not
find the notes for the final two days of her life.

On the evening of Dec. 5, Ms. McPherson's condition had deteriorated
to the point that Dr. Johnson sought outside help.

Records indicate that about 7 p.m. she telephoned a Scientologist who
was working as an emergency room doctor at a hospital in New Port
Richey, Fla., 45 minutes from Clearwater. Dr. Johnson and another
church staff member took Ms. McPherson to the New Port Richey
hospital, passing four other hospitals.

When they arrived, hospital records and court files show, Ms.
McPherson had no pulse. She was pronounced dead after 20 minutes of
resuscitation efforts.

"She was thin, she was unkempt, dirty, just not taken care of," said
the emergency room nurse who helped to try to revive Ms. McPherson.

Because it was an unattended death, an autopsy was done, it found that
Ms. McPherson, who was 5-foot-9, weighed 108 pounds and that she had
scratches and bruises on her hands and arms. The cause of death was
listed as a thromboembolism, or blood clot, in her left pulmonary
artery.

Severe dehydration and bed rest caused the clot, the autopsy said. A
police inquiry was started, as a matter of routine.

The Aftermath: An Investigation Expands, And A Lawsuit Follows

In January, Dr. Joan Wood, the county medical examiner, appeared on
"Inside Edition," the syndicated television program. Saying that she
was speaking out because of misinformation from the church, Wood said
the autopsy indicated that Ms. McPherson had gone without water for at
least 5 to 10 days, and possibly longer.

She said Ms. McPherson had been unconscious for the last 24 to 48
hours of her life and that the scratches on her arms were cockroach
bites. "This is the most severe case of dehydration I've ever seen,"
she said.

The church hired its own medical experts. Its lead lawyers in the
criminal case, Ms. Vaughan and Lee Fugate, said in an interview that
those experts disagreed with Dr. Wood. By their account, the church's
doctors determined that Ms. McPherson's death was unrelated to her
stay at the retreat. The lawyers declined to identify the experts.

They also said that the county pathologist who performed the autopsy
disagreed with some of Dr. Wood's findings and that the lawyers
disputed the paramedic's estimate that Ms. McPherson weighed 155
pounds the day of the accident.

"A Scientologist can refuse psychiatric treatment and be treated in
accordance with her own religious beliefs," Ms. Vaughan said. "And
while that may not be easily understandable by someone who is not a
Scientologist, it is part and parcel of their basic makeup, their
religion and their belief. When the competent medical testimony comes
forward, what you will have is a woman who died an accidental death
from a pulmonary embolism."

In February, the McPherson family sued the church on behalf of Lisa
McPherson's estate. The suit claimed that Ms. McPherson was held
against her will and died after slipping into a coma.

About the same time, the Clearwater police expanded their
investigation. Over the last 10 months, detectives have interviewed
dozens of Scientologists and outside experts on the church.

Police officials declined to discuss their findings, but the results
are expected to be turned over to the prosecutors this month.

State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the chief prosecutor for the county,
will decide whether criminal charges are warranted. Before making his
decision, McCabe said in an interview, he will take the unusual step
of allowing Scientology's lawyers to present the results of their
investigation, including analyses by several forensic pathologists.

"Does it happen every day that the defense presents its evidence
before charges are filed?" McCabe said. "No. But not to avail yourself
of an opportunity to review the defense's evidence before making a
decision would be foolish."

In Texas, Dell Liebreich waits impatiently for the decision.

She took over the suit after Ms. McPherson's mother died of cancer
earlier this year. Her lawyer, Dandar, tells her that the outcome of
the criminal inquiry will not affect the suit, but Mrs. Liebreich said
she wanted people held accountable for the death of her niece. "They
murdered her, and we don't want it to happen to someone else," she
said.



In today's (Tuesday, 12/2/97) St. Petersburg Times (www.sptimes.com),
on
the editorial page, we see that Operation Footbullet is alive and well
in
the Cult of Hubbard:

[BEGIN QUOTE]

The hypocrisy of Scientology

In the past, the Church of Scientology has defended its actions by
claiming
the First Amendment right of free speech. Now, it would deny that
constitutional right to its critics by stopping them from picketing in
front of the church's main building in downtown Clearwater.

Scientology can't have it both ways.

A group of 20 to 30 protesters has planned a non-violent demonstration
in
front of the former Fort Harrison Hotel, now Scientology's spiritual
headquarters, to mark the second anniversary of Lisa McPherson's
death...

....The protesters, some of them former Scientologists, wanted to mark
McPherson's death with demonstrations on the evening of Dec. 5 and
during
the day of Dec. 6. They planned to carry signs on the sidewalks in
front
of the Fort Harrison building.

Although the protesters didn't need a city permit, they applied for
one and
it was granted. Scientologists responded by attempting to have the
sidewalks in front of their building closed off by police on those two
days, saying a Christmas event called Winter Wonderland and a church
meeting would draw thousands of visitors. Scientologists claimed the
protesters had been involved in violence against the church, but
offered no
substantial proof.

Clearwater Police Chief Sid Klein denied the Scientologists' request,
saying he had no proof of violent behavior by the protesters. In a
letter
to Clearwater City Manager Michael Roberto, Scientology director Ben
Shaw
said, "actions such as this give us the feeling of being treated as
second-class citizens by the city police."

After Scientology's heavy-handed effort to close down a public
sidewalk, it
is the protesters who should feel like second-class citizens.

In the Scientology letter, which asks Roberto to overrule Klein and
close
the sidewalks, Shaw writes: "Chief Klein's insistence that the rights
of a
dozen protestors from outside Clearwater supersedes the rights of
thousands
of Clearwater citizens is, in my judgement, outrageous."

What is outrageous is the Church of Scientology's hypocrisy. When it
suits
them, Scientologists claim to be the persecuted minority trying to
exert
their constitutional rights. In this case, it suits them to deprive
other
citizens their free speech.

Roberto should not let the Church of Scientology bully him. Clearwater
police are fully capable of allowing the demonstration and maintaining
the
peace.

[END QUOTE]

"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c901bee5.0411041732.ae65f38@posting.go ogle.com... Dumb David Touretzky. The professor is jerking off with too many issues. Lisa wasn't killed by anyone. Lisa's death was accidental. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Faxhor ================================================== ============== Lisa McPhersonhttp://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2416810272d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm=c901bee5.0410291137.16254958@posting.google.c om Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood lied about Lisa's death. Dr. Robert Davis, who did the autopsy could not even support Dr. Wood's report that Lisa died gradually from dehydration. Florida Medical Examiner Dr. Joan Wood refused to produce the records to the court. ================================================== ============== CMU PROFESSOR DAVID TOURETZKY - NO EXPERT ON THE 1ST AMENDMENT http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0410221734.3e554d5b@posting.g oogle.com&output=gplain "I'm not taking Dr. Touretzky's view of the First Amendment as evidence. His testimony presupposes a view of the scope of the First Amendment on which he is not an expert, which is not a proper subject for testimony and which is ultimately for me and appellate courts to decide." - Judge Lewis A. Kaplan July 25, 2000 MPAA V. 2600 ================================================== =============="Genesis" <genesis1652@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<418ad390@news2.lightlink.com>... Well if her death was accidental why not answer a simple question.Death always comes too early or too lateGenesis, I asked you nicely to not address me in any wayat all. Please don't ask me questions either. You'requestion is not an honest question, it is an accusation.And stop lying by saying your question is "simple."So what if you ask if they are question is not an honest question?What are you?

If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html

On 12 Nov 2004 15:11:30 -0800, faxhor@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
"Faxhor" <faxhor@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c901bee5.0411041732.ae65f38@posting.go ogle.com...

Hey faxhor, stick this in your google...

ROACHBITES



Also see opposition to summary judgement


ESTATE'S REPLY TO DEFENDANTS' FRYE CHALLENGE TO COCKROACH EVIDENCE

Plaintiff first addresses the defense statement that Plaintiff fired
Dr.
Haskell. This is simply not true. This court restricted each party to
one
entomologist. The Estate will gladly keep Dr. Haskell if the court
permits. The Estate had retained 6 out of 9 board certified
entomologists
in the United States. All opined that there are cockroach feeding
sites on
Lisa's body. They are all Ph.D.'s and board certified by the National
Academy of Forensic Scientists. The defense expert has a Masters
degree
and is not board certified, but is now trying to become certified, not
by
the National Academy, since he is not qualified, but by the
Entomological
Society. The Estate does not attempt to denigrate this expert, but
simply
points this fact out when the defense attempts to argue that the
Estate's
experts are not qualified to render their opinions.

Furthermore, Dr. Haskell's experiment should be considered in this
motion.
That experiment was successful, as Dr. Haskell stated, since it did
prove
that roaches do bite on living humans, but that they were not left on
the
body long enough to create feeding sites. More importantly, one bite
did
not create any mark. Therefore, the marks on Lisa's body took more
feeding
than one bite.

I. DEFENDANTS' GROUNDS[1]

1. It is novel that cockroaches will feed upon living humans. (Note
that
defendants do not call it novel science, just novel.)

2. Identifying cockroach bites by photograph and if antemortem or
postmortem is novel, not generally accepted, and is not supported by
scientific studies. (Note again the use of the term novel all by
itself).

3. Reject Plaintiff's expert testimony since it is pure conjecture and
premised upon insufficient fact and not supported by the record.
Plaintiff's experts are inconsistent in identifying the bites and
cannot
say they, the roach bites, were caused premortem. (Note novel is not
even
used here).

4. Plaintiff's Ph.D. board certified entomologists are not qualified
to
identify cockroach bites, either antemortem or postmortem. They are
only
qualified to identify insects. (Note again that novel is not even used
here).

5. Postmortem cockroach bites are irrelevant, since Lisa could not
personally experience the bites and trauma from it. (Note again that
novel
is not even used here).

6. The prejudicial value outweighs the probative value. (Note again
that
novel is not even used here).

Defendants take great issue with the fact that the Estate's board
certified forensic entomologist, Lee Goff, Ph.D., did not view the
scene,
did not collect a single insect, and did not view the body. (Page
15-16).
First, before Lisa's body was taken too late to the emergency room,
her
attendants washed the body. Second, before the police could view the
scene, FLAG staff completely washed it down and brought in new
furniture
on the day after her death.

FLAG also argues that Dr. Goff would expect insect infestation to have
roaches feeding on a body, similar to other crime scenes he has
investigated. If FLAG is telling the truth that there was no insect
infestation at the hotel, then this simply proves the Estate's
argument
that Lisa was never in the hotel in the first place. She was likely at
a
distant location, like the staff apartment building, the Hacienda,
which
is reportedly infested with roaches!

The opinion of the Estate's experts are pure opinion testimony not
subject
to a Frye challenge.

. . . _pure_opinion_testimony_, such as an expert's opinion that a
defendant is incompetent, _does_not_have_to_meet_Frye_, because this
type of testimony is based on the expert's _personal experience and
training_. While cloaked with the credibility of the expert, this
testimony is analyzed by the jury as it analyzes any other personal
opinion or factual testimony by a witness. Profile testimony, on the
other hand, by its nature necessarily _relies_on_some
scientific_principle or_test,_which_implies_an_infallibility_
not_found_in_pure_opinion_testimony_. The jury will naturally assume
that the scientific principles underlying the expert's conclusion
are
valid. Accordingly, this type of testimony must meet the Frye test,
designed to ensure that the jury will not be misled by experimental
scientific methods which may ultimately prove to be unsound. See
Stokes,
548 So.2d at 193-94 ("[A] courtroom is not a laboratory, and as such
it
is not the place to conduct scientific experiments. If the
scientific
community considers a procedure or process unreliable for its own
purposes, then the procedure must be considered less reliable for
courtroom use."). (Emphasis added).

Flanagan v. State, 625 So.2d 827 (Fla., 1993).

Isn't it interesting that the defense experts do not know of any
scientific study concerning roaches biting on people, except the one
Russian study by scientists who succeeded in having roaches bite them
while the scientists were, presumably, alive. What the defense fails
to
point out to the court is not only are these pure opinion testimony,
but
also that science does rely on case studies, anecdotal reports, and
the
experience of the scientist.

The defense has nothing to say about the fact that the Estate's
forensic
entomologists are all board certified and have seen roaches feeding
upon
pigs and have identified roach bites on human remains. The Estate's
experts then take these findings and add to that the other case
studies,
including criminal reports of roaches found feeding upon babies, both
alive and dead, and combine that with their education to arrive at
their
opinions. That is why their opinions have nothing to do with novel
science
under Frye.

The next amazing argument is that since the FLAG staff never saw a
roach
in Lisa's room, and since the hotel was regularly sprayed, then these
marks could not be left by roaches. The problem with this argument is
that
it has nothing to do with Frye, since it, like the entire argument of
the
defense, goes to the weight of the evidence. It will be up to the jury
to
believe or not believe the staff of FLAG.

Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff made very conservative opinions in this
matter. Neither would say that these marks are 100% roach feeding
sites
for one and only one reason: they were not there witnessing the
roaches
feeding upon Lisa. What both experts do opine is that these marks are
consistent with roach bites based upon their experience and education
and
that their opinion meets the legal requirement of more likely than
not.
Therefore, Dr. Goff renders his opinion at 80% likely, far exceeding
the
legal minimum of 51%.

The Estate attaches hereto two recently reported cases of live babies
or
children being found with roaches feeding upon them. The first
concerns a
criminal case involving abuse of a 7 month old Quail Valley girl from
Riverside County, California, in 2001. At the emergency room at Inland
Valley Medical Center in Wildomar, California, it was diagnosed that
the
baby was suffering from rat and cockroach bites. In April of 1998, in
Rochester, N.Y., a mother was sentenced to 15 years for child neglect
of
her 5 year old daughter. Among other signs of neglect, a pathologist
cited
cockroach bites on her arms and legs. Why couldn't the defense find
these
cases?

Dr. Haskell produced several autopsy or scene investigation
photographs of
adults or children with identified roach bites and feeding sites. Dr.
Goff
produced several published articles, one of which is attached to the
defense exhibits, the Denic article, which state in no uncertain terms
that roaches bite living people.

The defense chastises both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff in being able to
pass
the defense test at deposition. Under the pressure of direct
examination
to answer quickly, both experts could not match every roach bite with
the
one they marked on their respective charts, charts that took hours to
produce after extensive examination. This has nothing to do with Frye.

In the authoritative textbook edited by Dr. Werner Spitz, M.D., there
is
an extensive discussion with pictures of ant and roach bites on the
deceased. This is prime evidence that roaches do bite human flesh. See
defense Exhibit 31.

Dr. Spitz identifies autopsy microscopic slides as being only one
thing:
bug bites.

Spitz

490

2 A She has two -- these two marks, lesions, on the tip of the
3 nose with a bridge of intact skin between them. Each one
4 is sharply demarcated, recessed, devoid of epidermis and
5 dried.
6 Q And isn't that consistent with a cut on the nose?
7 A A cut? No, it is not, definitely not a cut.
8 Q With a scrape on the nose?
9 A No, I don't think it's a scrape, either.
10 Q How many bugs would it take to make those two marks and how
11 long would it take them to do that?
12 A How many bugs? Two bugs.
13 Q Two bugs?
14 A One on the right side and one on the left.

491

1 Q You've never seen a cockroach bite anybody, have you?
2 A Oh, yes.
3 Q Seen it with your eyes?
4 A Yes, I have.
5 Q You've seen a cockroach bite somebody?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Who? Who, when and where?
8 A I've seen cockroaches on bodies.
9 Q Have you ever seen a cockroach bite a person?
10 A Yeah.

.. . .

493

9 A Yeah. This is distinctive because it's dried and it's
10 somewhat shrunken. That's why it's brown.

.. . .

501

you believe is indicative of a bug bite? Can
21 you just mark on
22 A The whole picture.
23 Q Okay. So the whole picture Nineteen
24 A Yes.

.. . .

440

as to when any
4 particular bite was made, whether before death or after
5 death?
6 A In the absence of microscopy and in the absence of
7 observation by witnesses there is no way to do that. And

. . .

429

7 Q And you testified, to a reasonable degree of medical
8 certainty, as an anatomical pathologist, that any mark on
9 Lisa McPherson's body is a bug bite?
10 A I can testify, within a reasonable degree of medical
11 certainty, that these injuries look like bug bites, yes. I
12 cannot ever say these are bug bites, because that would be
13 a hundred percent. But within a reasonable degree of
14 medical certainty, they qualify as bug bites, yes.

.. . .

439

1 And can you tell -- testify, to a reasonable degree of
2 medical certainty, when these marks which you say are
3 likely bug bites, when they were made?
4 A I think they -- they are -- some of them are of similar age
5 and some of them are different ages.
6 Q Can you --
7 A Some of them show evidence of drying, some of them don't.
8 Some of them are fresher, some of them are older.
9 Q Can you tell, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty,
10 whether any of the marks are postmortem?
11 A Some of them, I can't really tell. The fresh ones that are
12 dried, I am unable to tell. I'd have to consolidate that
13 based on what testimony there is in regards to a particular
14 defect, such as the nose, for instance. I understand that
15 Ms. Arrunada knew of the existence of the nose defects
16 earlier on the 5th of December.

....

23 Q Okay. And you picked out a picture of the -- of Lisa
24 McPherson's face. What is it about this picture, which is
25 number four of set nine, that is consistent -- that shows a

490

1 bug bite?
2 A She has two -- these two marks, lesions, on the tip of the
3 nose with a bridge of intact skin between them. Each one
4 is sharply demarcated, recessed, devoid of epidermis and
5 dried.
6 Q And isn't that consistent with a cut on the nose?
7 A A cut? No, it is not, definitely not a cut.
8 Q With a scrape on the nose?
9 A No, I don't think it's a scrape, either.
10 Q How many bugs would it take to make those two marks and how
11 long would it take them to do that?
12 A How many bugs? Two bugs.
13 Q Two bugs?
14 A One on the right side and one on the left.
15 Q And--and how long --
16 A That's what it would take.
17 Q Well, how big would the bugs have to be to make those
18 marks?
19 A I couldn't tell you how big the bugs were.
20 Q Well, you're --
21 A A cockroach will do that.
22 Q How big would it have to be and how long would it take?
23 A I never stood there with a stopwatch and timed it.
24 Q Excuse me?
25 A I never stood there with a stopwatch and timed it.

491

1 Q You've never seen a cockroach bite anybody, have you?
2 A Oh, yes.
3 Q Seen it with your eyes?
4 A Yes, I have.
5 Q You've seen a cockroach bite somebody?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Who? Who, when and where?
8 A I've seen cockroaches on bodies.
9 Q Have you ever seen a cockroach bite a person?
10 A Yeah.
11 Q You mean after they were dead and they were sitting in the
12 woods and it was feeding--
13 A They were not sitting in the woods, they were sitting in a
14 house.
15 Q And it was dead --
16 A In a -- in a house with -- which was poorly kept and there
17 were cockroaches. In Michigan you don't get cockroaches as
18 much as you get in Florida. You get cockroaches on
19 occasion. Mostly here, this kind of damage, is from ants.
20 Q So you suspect that in this hotel that had regular
21 extermination services that -- that two cockroaches sat on
22 Lisa McPherson's face and did these bites. Is that -- is
23 that what you suspect?
24 A First of all, I didn't say cockroaches sat on Lisa
25 McPherson's face or nose, I said two -- You asked me how

492

1 many cockroaches could have done that and I said two
2 cockroaches, one on the right and one on the left. I
3 didn't say how many cockroaches, I don't even know that
4 these are cockroaches and I told you that this morning.
5 Q You don't even know that they're bug bites, either, do you?
6 A They are bite bugs because they look like bug bites and
7 it's very unlikely that anything else would have caused
8 this as distributed and localized as they are.

434

But I've seen
16 hundreds of cases, maybe thousands of cases, where there
17 were -- there was damage by insects.

.. . .

438

4 tell us, to a reasonable degree of -- of medical certainty,
5 of scientific certainty, what is the structure of the bug's
6 mouth that -- teeth, pincers, whatever it is, that would
7 have made the marks that you believe are bug bites in this
8 case?
9 A No, I'm -- I'm not an entomologist, so I would -- in that
10 regard I would defer to an entomologist.

449

1 A Yes. I have two slides, one of the right foot and one of
2 the left hand.

.. . .

452

1 inflammatory change?
2 A I don't recall. So they were incurred during life, one
3 older than the other. The one closer to the time to the
4 death, the other one longer than -- older than.

.. . .

458

When you say a healing process what does that tell you?
12 A That's what I referred to earlier as fibrosis, which is
13 indicative that this occurred during lifetime, because it
14 is the reaction of the body to the presence of this bug
15 bite or whatever -- whatever bug it was that caused this.

.. . .

19 A The fact that it is a superficial cutaneous or skin damage,
20 or superficial ulcer which, in conjunction with the naked
21 eye appearance, supports the conclusion that this is most
22 likely a bug bite.

.. . .

463

in Exhibit Seventeen, in
15 the slides that you looked at and identified,
16 microscopically, that would indicate that there is any
17 inflammation as a result of any secretion?
18 A The inflammation has mostly healed

.. . .

464

8 Q -- the lesion. Can you tell from -- from that -- from
9 Exhibit Seventeen or from the slides that you looked at,
10 when the lesion was made, what day, how long before Lisa
11 McPherson died?
12 A I don't know. Maybe -- maybe between ten and -- ten and
13 twelve days, something like that. I couldn't say any
14 closer.

.. . .

24 A We're looking at the back of the right hand.
25 Q Okay.

475

1 A Which shows an abundance of circular, mostly circular
2 lesions which qualify as bug bites and one of them is
3 crater-like, which is infected. And there is bruising of
4 the back of the wrist which qualifies for restraint,
5 similar to the abrasion with underlying bruising on the
6 back of the foot that we were discussing, the ankle B

.. . .

476

1 A That's correct. There is a better picture of it which I
2 just see here which shows it much better.
3 Q Okay. So this is Exhibit Twenty-One. Show us on Exhibit
4 Twenty-One what you believe is the bruising that is not the
5 bug bite which you say is consistent with restraint.
6 A There is bruising and abrasion. This looks very similar to
7 what you saw on the back of the foot that we were
8 discussing earlier.

.. . .

478

One of them, the one on the second knuckle is infected and
15 these little areas here are also suspect to me as being bug
16 bites, those little --
17 Q But not the -- not

.. . .

487

4 Q Okay. Now, let me show you -- Let me show you exhibit
5 twelve of set nine and ask you if there is anything on the
6 left foot that, from the picture here, that you can tell,
7 but beyond -- to a reasonable degree of medical certainty,
8 is a bug bite as opposed to an abrasion or a bruise. Which
9 foot is that, by the way?
10 A Right foot. All these lesions, all of them, could be bug
11 bites.

[1]Found on pages 2-3 of Defendants' motion.

If the Ferengi were to breed with the Borg you'd get Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/comedy.html
The internet is the Liberty Tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/libertyl.html
Ex-Scientologist staff member
apoligizes to John Travolta, Mayor Gabe Cazares
and the Citizens of Clearwater
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/
Help getting someone OUT of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyhelp/main.html