California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental Rights [Archive]

kat

05-17-2004, 07:22 AM

"geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:%IRpc.6060$XI4.214199@news.xtra.co.nz... "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:SLMpc.12080$hH.294798@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... "geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message

The five couples and the teenager giving away her baby will be on New Zealand TV tomorrow. (20/20 program) I wonder what will be said here about it on talkback radio. No I won't be joining in, it takes at least half an hour waiting on the phone and I haven't the time. Geopelia Good decision! Marley Better to use newsgroups, no advertising blethering away while folks wait.
I haven't heard it mentioned yet on talkback, they are discussing the performance of Rugby teams this morning. I saw the program, and wonder what all the fuss has been about recently on this group. I thought it was very well handled, if we must have TV
sticking its nose into what should be private. The teenager made the right decision in the end, though I am not in favour of open adoptions. I'm glad she
chose the childless couple.

I always hear echoes of my father when you speak. It must be a generational
thing.
Should she have seen and handled the baby so much? Is that wise, when a child is to be adopted? Surely bonding should be avoided. What will be happening in ten years time? She will have lived a free
teenage life and will possibly be ready to settle down to marriage and a family. Will she still want to keep in touch with that baby? Will the parents have changed their minds about so much contact? How will the child feel about
it?

Will the economy recover? Will we ever leave Iraq? Will gays be allowed to
marry in all 50 states? Will the world explode in a fiery ball? Unless one
has a crystal ball it is hard to predict the future.

Kathy 1

geopelia

05-17-2004, 02:50 PM

"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2gs05aF626h5U1@uni-berlin.de... "geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:%IRpc.6060$XI4.214199@news.xtra.co.nz... "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:SLMpc.12080$hH.294798@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... "geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message > The five couples and the teenager giving away her baby will be on
New > Zealand TV tomorrow. (20/20 program) I wonder what will be said here about > it on talkback radio. No I won't be joining in, it takes at least
half an > hour waiting on the phone and I haven't the time. > > Geopelia Good decision! Marley > > Better to use newsgroups, no advertising blethering away while folks
wait. I haven't heard it mentioned yet on talkback, they are discussing the performance of Rugby teams this morning. I saw the program, and wonder what all the fuss has been about recently
on this group. I thought it was very well handled, if we must have TV sticking its nose into what should be private. The teenager made the right
decision in the end, though I am not in favour of open adoptions. I'm glad she chose the childless couple. I always hear echoes of my father when you speak. It must be a
generational thing.

Possibly. "The Wisdom of Age"? Only time will tell. Should she have seen and handled the baby so much? Is that wise, when a child is to be adopted? Surely bonding should be avoided. What will be happening in ten years time? She will have lived a free teenage life and will possibly be ready to settle down to marriage and a family. Will she still want to keep in touch with that baby? Will the parents
have changed their minds about so much contact? How will the child feel about it? Will the economy recover? Will we ever leave Iraq? Will gays be allowed
to marry in all 50 states? Will the world explode in a fiery ball? Unless
one has a crystal ball it is hard to predict the future. Kathy 1

They are making a start with gay marriage. After 40 years of happy marriage,
I would like to see gays allowed the same. Two people able to trust and
depend on each other for life in sickness and in health - everyone whoever
they are should be able to choose this.

As for the other questions, who knows? Ask your President about the economy
and Iraq, and an astronomer about the other.

I'm concerned about the happiness and future of four people, and whatever
may be politically correct today, I have misgivings about that situation.

Geopelia

geopelia

05-17-2004, 02:50 PM

05-18-2004, 06:36 AM

> What will be happening in ten years time? She will have lived a freeteenage life and will possibly be ready to settle down to marriage and a family. Will she still want to keep in touch with that baby? Will the parents have changed their minds about so much contact? How will the child feel aboutit?Will the economy recover?

Yes.

Will we ever leave Iraq?

Yes.

Will gays be allowed tomarry in all 50 states?

Yes.

Will the world explode in a fiery ball?

No.
Unless onehas a crystal ball it is hard to predict the future.Kathy 1

See, it's not hard at all. It's accuracy that's tough.

J.
Crystal ball-less in Minnesota

Reply to jmhjmd at aol.

05-18-2004, 06:36 AM

kat

05-18-2004, 06:48 AM

"J." <jmdjmh@aol.compostible> wrote in message
news:20040518093604.18679.00000979@mb-m26.aol.com... What will be happening in ten years time? She will have lived a freeteenage life and will possibly be ready to settle down to marriage and a
family. Will she still want to keep in touch with that baby? Will the parents
have changed their minds about so much contact? How will the child feel
aboutit?Will the economy recover? Yes. Will we ever leave Iraq? Yes. Will gays be allowed tomarry in all 50 states? Yes. Will the world explode in a fiery ball? No.Unless onehas a crystal ball it is hard to predict the future.Kathy 1 See, it's not hard at all. It's accuracy that's tough.

J. Crystal ball-less in Minnesota

So true :)

Kathy 1

kat

05-18-2004, 06:48 AM

geopelia

05-18-2004, 02:54 PM

"kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2guighF71njqU1@uni-berlin.de... "J." <jmdjmh@aol.compostible> wrote in message news:20040518093604.18679.00000979@mb-m26.aol.com...> What will be happening in ten years time? She will have lived a freeteenage> life and will possibly be ready to settle down to marriage and a family.> Will she still want to keep in touch with that baby? Will the parents have> changed their minds about so much contact? How will the child feel aboutit?>Will the economy recover? Yes. Will we ever leave Iraq? Yes. Will gays be allowed tomarry in all 50 states? Yes. Will the world explode in a fiery ball? No.

Yes, if a large enough asteroid or comet hits it!
Unless onehas a crystal ball it is hard to predict the future.Kathy 1 See, it's not hard at all. It's accuracy that's tough. J. Crystal ball-less in Minnesota So true :) Kathy 1

geopelia

05-18-2004, 02:54 PM

Damsel Plum

06-06-2004, 05:13 PM

Marley wrote re. domestic engineers:
Why shouldn't they? What makes them so special that they should lie around the house all day?

Because we're hot high class Mommas?
Once it was middle class privilege to say at home and do nothing all day.

Now only the wealthy and welfare mothers can do it. Or not do it
(something, that is.)
Women who did this reflected their husband's status. Now everybody is poor and stay-at home parents are just lazy unless

Enough sour grapes, Marlze. It's bad enough to laze about the house
all day *without* having to change diapers, clean messes and manage
the primitive needs of wee ones. One has to be suited to
domesticity, or at least resigned to it.

In any case, the real issue is whether kids benefit from the stability
of someone at home, provided that person is not a frustrated, abusive
or depressoid nut. In this day and age the sad thing is not that
women don't have the opportunity to go out and become mining engineers
and firepeople, but rather that they do not have the opportunity to
raise their own children, should they want to. Whether this is a
function of consumerist/real estate pressures as much as those of
self-actualization, I don't know.
been outsourced to India. People who stay home with their brats are simply freeloaders who let somebody else support them.

Hey, did you know that former sprogophobe Denise Castellucci (of
Voices of Adoption) had a baby in December and is now my neighbor.
Marlzey, I think you would make a really good Mommy too. I could see
you with one of those Chinese baby girls. Or maybe a Russian FAS kid,
if you're up to a challenge. ;^P hehehe. Just kidding.
It's interesting how the government moans and growns if poor woman wants to stay home and take care of Bratleilgh, but preaches to middle class women who don't.

Yes. Enforced matrimony for sperminators. Depenisation for wife and
girlfriend-beaters. Damzy for President!

Geopelia wrote:
Women who take motherhood and homemaking seriously don't "lie around the house all day". As well as raising and teaching their children, and doing the housework, shopping etc, they make clothes, preserve fruit etc, garden and raise vegetables, if they are farm wives they do a lot of the farm work,

Some have even (gasp) founded and ran adult adoptee rights groups!
But they don't count cuz they're evil abandoning lazy housewives.
Speaking of which, whatever the heck ever happened to Ms. Grimm? She
around?
they do voluntary work such as "meals on wheels", they take care of the family's finances, they entertain their husbands' business associates, they take the children to sports at weekends and to all the out of school

Putting up with other parents can be a job unto itself. Or so I hear.
Their contribution to the family is often far greater than the financial contribution of the average working mothers, whose wages must cover childcare, fares, clothes, make-up, and other expenses the stay at home women do not have.

This may be true in New Zealand (my family just returned from a trip
there - such a beautiful place!) and Britain, but Proctor and Gamblism
is so pervasive in the U.S. that even stay at home Moms often feel
compelled to wear tons of make-up and waste money on clothes they
don't need.

Marley writes:
Unfortunately, today both partners must work to make ends meet, and child rearing has to be put off for many years, by abortion if necessary.

It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay
childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to
conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of
reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class.
Women who prefer to make raising a family and running a happy home their career often don't have the choice any more. A man who prefers a wife who stays at home may not find a suitable partner.

There's no guarantee anyone will. But out-of-control
self-actualization and romance fantasies certainly have not helped
either gender.

Marley intones:
Wonem who prefer to stay ;home are stupid. Men who want them are

What about women? To heck with wonem. Woe unto nem.
stupider.

Like my husband. One dull knob there. Ooh, but what a knob..
There ought to be a special hell for breeders. Oh, there is . The home.

One wonem's hell is another heaven.
Some people would prefer the old closed adoptions. Who will prove right

In some cases, I think closed adoption *is* best. It was for me.
Besides, I've attended enough open adoption workshops at adoption
conferences to see the mania for openness and the hell it must wreak
on the poor kids whose birthparents don't want to be involved. But
the well-intentioned (?!) aparents who've found religion in open
adoption insist on contact, and the kid is disappointed over and over
by the birthparent who won't show up or call on a birthday. Whatever.
How about getting rid of adoption altogether and letting abortin be free on demand. Anybody dumb enough to keep their kid should pay for it.

Marley. Really. You're worse than some atheist screaming against God
or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to
get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out
of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help.
Some people have religious beliefs that forbid abortion.

Or simple ethical beliefs.
If a woman who finds herself pregnant (even with the Pill accidents happen) is willing to have the child and allow it to be adopted, why not? A childless couple gets a baby, the child gets a stable home, and she passes her genes on to the next generation.

ADOPTION ROCKS DA HOUSE!!!! Besides, without adoption, there wouldn't
be alt.adoption. http://www.bastards.org/fun/mstrdntion/fqna.htm
Nuff said.
I believe the pressure on pregnant girls today to keep their babies themselves is wrong. It should be a free choice. By all means give them advice and point out the advantages and disadvantages of either course, but let them decide for themselves, unless they are underage.

In some religious communities the pressure is still to give the baby
away.
Do the majority of gays really want children? I doubt it.

Apparently the majority of straights in the US and UK don't want kids
either. At lease among those of European heritage.
Too right. Even if one lets people assume one is barren, (saves less argument) there is pressure to adopt! I think most of the old pressure is going now, though.

Pressure to adopt? Are you kidding? Yikes.

Can't wait to see the new Stepford Wives with St. Walken!!!

Damzy

Damsel Plum

06-06-2004, 05:13 PM

Marley Greiner

06-06-2004, 05:58 PM

"Damsel Plum" <amelusine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c89c3e62.0406061613.616b4e25@posting.google.c om... Marley wrote re. domestic engineers: Why shouldn't they? What makes them so special that they should lie around the house all day? Because we're hot high class Mommas?

I KNOW you are, but you're about 10 cuts above the "average"--or more. Once it was middle class privilege to say at home and do nothing all day. Now only the wealthy and welfare mothers can do it. Or not do it (something, that is.)Women who did this reflected their husband's status. Now everybody is poor and stay-at home parents are just lazy unless Enough sour grapes, Marlze. It's bad enough to laze about the house all day *without* having to change diapers, clean messes and manage the primitive needs of wee ones. One has to be suited to domesticity, or at least resigned to it.

I don't see how anybody could be suited for it. Now being paid to this this
stuff is another story. I used to clean houses for $10 a day. Can you
beleive that? In any case, the real issue is whether kids benefit from the stability of someone at home, provided that person is not a frustrated, abusive or depressoid nut. In this day and age the sad thing is not that women don't have the opportunity to go out and become mining engineers and firepeople, but rather that they do not have the opportunity to raise their own children, should they want to. Whether this is a function of consumerist/real estate pressures as much as those of self-actualization, I don't know.

Well, you know me. I don't know why anybody would want to. As much as I
deplore work, I'd rather work than be stuck with a kid all day. been outsourced to India. People who stay home with their brats are simply freeloaders who let somebody else support them. Hey, did you know that former sprogophobe Denise Castellucci (of Voices of Adoption) had a baby in December and is now my neighbor. Marlzey, I think you would make a really good Mommy too. I could see you with one of those Chinese baby girls. Or maybe a Russian FAS kid, if you're up to a challenge. ;^P hehehe. Just kidding.

You'd better be! I prefer cats. My Abbie Kat , is my inspiration. She''s
angry at me right now for not letting her outside but she'll get over it.
Or not. There's just something fun about batting somebody in the eye in the
middle of the night to get even. It's interesting how the government moans and growns if poor woman
wants to stay home and take care of Bratleilgh, but preaches to middle class women who don't. Yes. Enforced matrimony for sperminators. Depenisation for wife and girlfriend-beaters. Damzy for President!

I'l vote for you. Geopelia wrote: Women who take motherhood and homemaking seriously don't "lie around the house all day". As well as raising and teaching their children, and
doing the housework, shopping etc, they make clothes, preserve fruit etc,
garden and raise vegetables, if they are farm wives they do a lot of the farm
work, Some have even (gasp) founded and ran adult adoptee rights groups! But they don't count cuz they're evil abandoning lazy housewives. Speaking of which, whatever the heck ever happened to Ms. Grimm? She around?

You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to except
that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii.

they do voluntary work such as "meals on wheels", they take care of the family's finances, they entertain their husbands' business associates,
they take the children to sports at weekends and to all the out of school Putting up with other parents can be a job unto itself. Or so I hear. Their contribution to the family is often far greater than the financial contribution of the average working mothers, whose wages must cover childcare, fares, clothes, make-up, and other expenses the stay at home women do not have. This may be true in New Zealand (my family just returned from a trip there - such a beautiful place!) and Britain, but Proctor and Gamblism is so pervasive in the U.S. that even stay at home Moms often feel compelled to wear tons of make-up and waste money on clothes they don't need.

Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of his
son's relinquishment inked on his back. Marley writes: > Unfortunately, today both partners must work to make ends meet, and child > rearing has to be put off for many years, by abortion if necessary. It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class.

They can always adopt. Women > who prefer to make raising a family and running a happy home their career > often don't have the choice any more. A man who prefers a wife who
stays at > home may not find a suitable partner. There's no guarantee anyone will. But out-of-control self-actualization and romance fantasies certainly have not helped either gender. Marley intones: Wonem who prefer to stay ;home are stupid. Men who want them are What about women? To heck with wonem. Woe unto nem. stupider. Like my husband. One dull knob there. Ooh, but what a knob..

bwwwaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is the old man? There ought to be a special hell for breeders. Oh, there is . The
home. One wonem's hell is another heaven. > Some people would prefer the old closed adoptions. Who will prove
right In some cases, I think closed adoption *is* best. It was for me. Besides, I've attended enough open adoption workshops at adoption conferences to see the mania for openness and the hell it must wreak on the poor kids whose birthparents don't want to be involved. But the well-intentioned (?!) aparents who've found religion in open adoption insist on contact, and the kid is disappointed over and over by the birthparent who won't show up or call on a birthday. Whatever. How about getting rid of adoption altogether and letting abortin be
free on demand. Anybody dumb enough to keep their kid should pay for it. Marley. Really. You're worse than some atheist screaming against God or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help.

Hey, I don't even have cable, and I can't figure out how to use the VCR. I
can't even get it to play tapes. Some people have religious beliefs that forbid abortion. Or simple ethical beliefs. If a woman who finds herself pregnant (even with the Pill accidents
happen) is willing to have the child and allow it to be adopted, why not? A childless couple gets a baby, the child gets a stable home, and she
passes her genes on to the next generation.

Some of us don't want to pass on our genes. ADOPTION ROCKS DA HOUSE!!!! Besides, without adoption, there wouldn't be alt.adoption. http://www.bastards.org/fun/mstrdntion/fqna.htm Nuff said. I believe the pressure on pregnant girls today to keep their babies themselves is wrong. It should be a free choice. By all means give them advice and point out the advantages and disadvantages of either course,
but let them decide for themselves, unless they are underage. In some religious communities the pressure is still to give the baby away. > Do the majority of gays really want children? I doubt it. Apparently the majority of straights in the US and UK don't want kids either. At lease among those of European heritage. Too right. Even if one lets people assume one is barren, (saves less argument) there is pressure to adopt! I think most of the old pressure is going now, though. Pressure to adopt? Are you kidding? Yikes. Can't wait to see the new Stepford Wives with St. Walken!!! Damzy

Marley

Marley Greiner

06-06-2004, 05:58 PM

Damsel Plum

06-06-2004, 11:50 PM

"Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii.

I bet.
Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of his son's relinquishment inked on his back.

As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the
Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember
that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's
considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor?
That was frightening.

Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove
around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful
scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists.
My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south
island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy
to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising
diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years.
It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class. They can always adopt.

That's easy for you to say.
bwwwaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is the old man?

Good, thanks. I'll tell him you say hi.
or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help. Hey, I don't even have cable, and I can't figure out how to use the VCR. I can't even get it to play tapes.

But you do get your soaps, don't try to deny it - I know you!!!
Some of us don't want to pass on our genes.

Hey, who's twisting your arm?

Ok, so I looked at those links. Poor Mrs. Morrissey is manic on a
mission I see. Has she managed to adopt yet? If not, someone should
give her a few babies to keep her busy. That would help. Hopefully
she will be first in line when then legally dumped babies start
trickling into Massachusetts.

That said, it's easy for us not to realize how we must seem to people
who just don't understand, who don't know what Bill Pierce (PBUH) did
and said which harmed us as adopted citizens, in his attempt, in his
mind, to save lives from abortion and adoptions from failing. He was
manic on a mission too, wasn't he? And so was I when the issue was
something in which I believed. What drives you now, I don't really
know. I get Ron's angle, but I think you are just doing it for fun.

Damzy

Damsel Plum

06-06-2004, 11:50 PM

Damsel Plum

06-07-2004, 12:40 AM

Uh Marlze,

I read the salient parts of that Arlingtonian town hall page. Jeeez.
Ron is right - those guys are McCarthy-esque. They're their own worst
enemies too in a place like MA. Their approach would probably work
better in Kentucky.

I better get to sleep.

Later,

Damzy

Damsel Plum

06-07-2004, 12:40 AM

Marley Greiner

06-07-2004, 05:26 AM

"Damsel Plum" <amelusine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c89c3e62.0406062250.4d7f9c5d@posting.google.c om... "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to
except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii. I bet.

Hey, it's what she says! Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of
his son's relinquishment inked on his back. As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor? That was frightening.

Yes, I rememer that. Was it Seattle? Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists. My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years.

You'd make a nic couple. It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class. They can always adopt. That's easy for you to say. bwwwaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is the old man? Good, thanks. I'll tell him you say hi.

Thanks. He's a sweetheart. or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help. Hey, I don't even have cable, and I can't figure out how to use the VCR.
I can't even get it to play tapes. But you do get your soaps, don't try to deny it - I know you!!!

Soaps are the only thing I watch usually, except stuff on PBS, but most of
the time I"m up here working. Some of us don't want to pass on our genes. Hey, who's twisting your arm? Ok, so I looked at those links. Poor Mrs. Morrissey is manic on a mission I see. Has she managed to adopt yet? If not, someone should give her a few babies to keep her busy. That would help. Hopefully she will be first in line when then legally dumped babies start trickling into Massachusetts. That said, it's easy for us not to realize how we must seem to people who just don't understand, who don't know what Bill Pierce (PBUH) did and said which harmed us as adopted citizens, in his attempt, in his mind, to save lives from abortion and adoptions from failing. He was manic on a mission too, wasn't he? And so was I when the issue was something in which I believed. What drives you now, I don't really know. I get Ron's angle, but I think you are just doing it for fun. Damzy

What fiun. Trust me, Damz. This isin't fun anymore. It's work and work
and work. The crap never stops.

Marley

Marley Greiner

06-07-2004, 05:26 AM

geopelia

06-07-2004, 05:40 AM

"Damsel Plum" <amelusine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c89c3e62.0406062250.4d7f9c5d@posting.google.c om... "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to
except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii. I bet. Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of
his son's relinquishment inked on his back. As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor? That was frightening. Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists. My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years.

You would be very welcome in the bird clubs. I can't believe the horse steak
though, perhaps they were kidding you.
To immigrate permanently you have to have enough "points" and age is
considered, so don't delay too long. You can
get a temporary visitors permit though.
Most kiwis are very friendly people. It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class. They can always adopt. That's easy for you to say.

It is almost impossible in New Zealand now as the waiting list is so long,
and abortion is legal and safe. Girls are allowed to choose who will adopt
their babies now, so you might not be chosen. Some couples go to Romania or
even China to get babies. Closed adoptions are not encouraged, and at 18
children are allowed to find their birth parents anyway.
On the good side, there are not the enormous costs in adopting that Amerians
seem to have. It is illegal to "sell" a baby.
Geopelia

bwwwaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is the old man? Good, thanks. I'll tell him you say hi. or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help. Hey, I don't even have cable, and I can't figure out how to use the VCR.
I can't even get it to play tapes. But you do get your soaps, don't try to deny it - I know you!!! Some of us don't want to pass on our genes. Hey, who's twisting your arm? Ok, so I looked at those links. Poor Mrs. Morrissey is manic on a mission I see. Has she managed to adopt yet? If not, someone should give her a few babies to keep her busy. That would help. Hopefully she will be first in line when then legally dumped babies start trickling into Massachusetts. That said, it's easy for us not to realize how we must seem to people who just don't understand, who don't know what Bill Pierce (PBUH) did and said which harmed us as adopted citizens, in his attempt, in his mind, to save lives from abortion and adoptions from failing. He was manic on a mission too, wasn't he? And so was I when the issue was something in which I believed. What drives you now, I don't really know. I get Ron's angle, but I think you are just doing it for fun. Damzy

geopelia

06-07-2004, 05:40 AM

"Damsel Plum" <amelusine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c89c3e62.0406062250.4d7f9c5d@posting.google.c om... "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to
except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii. I bet. Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of
his son's relinquishment inked on his back. As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor? That was frightening. Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists. My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years.

You would be very welcome in the bird clubs. I can't believe the horse steak
though, perhaps they were kidding you.
To immigrate permanently you have to have enough "points" and age is
considered, so don't delay too long. You can
get a temporary visitors permit though.
Most kiwis are very friendly people. It amazes me how many people still honestly think one can delay childbearing until a woman's late 30's and beyond and still expect to conceive easily. Someone should teach about the pain and cost of reprotech and adoption in high school. Like in health class. They can always adopt. That's easy for you to say.

It is almost impossible in New Zealand now as the waiting list is so long,
and abortion is legal and safe. Girls are allowed to choose who will adopt
their babies now, so you might not be chosen. Some couples go to Romania or
even China to get babies. Closed adoptions are not encouraged, and at 18
children are allowed to find their birth parents anyway.
On the good side, there are not the enormous costs in adopting that Amerians
seem to have. It is illegal to "sell" a baby.
Geopelia

bwwwaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is the old man? Good, thanks. I'll tell him you say hi. or some fundie pointing fingers at dirty kaffirs. Tsk. You need to get that Tivo thing so you can filter the diaper and Mr. Clean ads out of your soap operas. Honestly, that should help. Hey, I don't even have cable, and I can't figure out how to use the VCR.
I can't even get it to play tapes. But you do get your soaps, don't try to deny it - I know you!!! Some of us don't want to pass on our genes. Hey, who's twisting your arm? Ok, so I looked at those links. Poor Mrs. Morrissey is manic on a mission I see. Has she managed to adopt yet? If not, someone should give her a few babies to keep her busy. That would help. Hopefully she will be first in line when then legally dumped babies start trickling into Massachusetts. That said, it's easy for us not to realize how we must seem to people who just don't understand, who don't know what Bill Pierce (PBUH) did and said which harmed us as adopted citizens, in his attempt, in his mind, to save lives from abortion and adoptions from failing. He was manic on a mission too, wasn't he? And so was I when the issue was something in which I believed. What drives you now, I don't really know. I get Ron's angle, but I think you are just doing it for fun. Damzy

Damsel Plum

06-07-2004, 12:34 PM

"geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<QlZwc.1348$GB4.43004@news.xtra.co.nz>...
You would be very welcome in the bird clubs.

Even my red-rump hybrid? He could be dangerous!
I can't believe the horse steak though, perhaps they were kidding you.

Well, we found out from eating it. I've had horse and I know what it
smells and tastes like (we lived in Europe for a bit when I was
growing up - on the continent). Mind you it was way in the southwest,
in sandfly land.
To immigrate permanently you have to have enough "points" and age is considered, so don't delay too long. You can get a temporary visitors permit though. Most kiwis are very friendly people.

I don't think we'd have a problem. Needed skills and all that. We'll
see what happens here.
It is almost impossible in New Zealand now as the waiting list is so long, and abortion is legal and safe. Girls are allowed to choose who will adopt their babies now, so you might not be chosen. Some couples go to Romania or even China to get babies. Closed adoptions are not encouraged, and at 18 children are allowed to find their birth parents anyway. On the good side, there are not the enormous costs in adopting that Amerians seem to have. It is illegal to "sell" a baby.

Hmm. Yes, but do you have legalized babydumps?!

Damsel

Damsel Plum

06-07-2004, 12:34 PM

geopelia

06-07-2004, 02:59 PM

"Damsel Plum" <amelusine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c89c3e62.0406071134.28c78c82@posting.google.c om... "geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<QlZwc.1348$GB4.43004@news.xtra.co.nz>... You would be very welcome in the bird clubs. Even my red-rump hybrid? He could be dangerous!

Hybrids are not popular, but people would be curious as he is so unusual.I can't believe the horse steak though, perhaps they were kidding you. Well, we found out from eating it. I've had horse and I know what it smells and tastes like (we lived in Europe for a bit when I was growing up - on the continent). Mind you it was way in the southwest, in sandfly land.

I hope that was in a private home, not a public cafe! Are you sure it wasn't
deer, thar, goat or wild pig?
I ate it too in the war, also whale, in London.

Great sandflies, aren't they! Did you get attacked by wasps? To immigrate permanently you have to have enough "points" and age is considered, so don't delay too long. You can get a temporary visitors permit though. Most kiwis are very friendly people. I don't think we'd have a problem. Needed skills and all that. We'll see what happens here.

That's good. We need good tradesmen, like plumbers. Kids all want to go to
university these days (on enormous loans) and the trades are rather
neglected. It is almost impossible in New Zealand now as the waiting list is so
long, and abortion is legal and safe. Girls are allowed to choose who will
adopt their babies now, so you might not be chosen. Some couples go to Romania
or even China to get babies. Closed adoptions are not encouraged, and at 18 children are allowed to find their birth parents anyway. On the good side, there are not the enormous costs in adopting that
Amerians seem to have. It is illegal to "sell" a baby. Hmm. Yes, but do you have legalized babydumps?!

Not the ones where girls just put the baby through a flap. Very few babies
are found abandoned here, either.

There used to be homes where girls never saw the babies and they were just
adopted, though. The girls were assured the files would be closed for life,
but
the government changed that. It has completely destroyed the confidence
pregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangement
may be changed retrospectively.
Fair enough if the girls want an open adoption, otherwise abortion is the
only way to ensure they are never found.

Geopelia

Damsel

geopelia

06-07-2004, 02:59 PM

Kathy

06-07-2004, 03:58 PM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>

(snip)

Re: government opening records to adoptees
It has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively.

You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyed their
confidence in adoption, my arce.

I think what you are really trying to say, is that you are very pissed off that
the baby supply has dropped down to nothing and think that closing records will
increase the supply. It won't.
Fair enough if the girls want an open adoption, otherwise abortion is theonly way to ensure they are never found.

Kathy

Kathy

06-07-2004, 03:58 PM

Steve White

06-07-2004, 07:49 PM

In article <c89c3e62.0406062250.4d7f9c5d@posting.google.com>,
amelusine@yahoo.com (Damsel Plum) wrote:
"Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii. I bet. Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of his son's relinquishment inked on his back. As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor? That was frightening.

That wasn't Chicago, was it?

Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists. My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years.

Send me a real estate listing when you get there :-)

NZ is one place I'd love to see on an extended basis.

steve

Steve White

06-07-2004, 07:49 PM

geopelia

06-07-2004, 08:52 PM

"Steve White" <steve@spam.me.never> wrote in message
news:steve-A2133F.21493907062004@netnews.comcast.net... In article <c89c3e62.0406062250.4d7f9c5d@posting.google.com>, amelusine@yahoo.com (Damsel Plum) wrote: "Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message You never did know your place. I have no idea what Sheazy is up to
except that she's working for a Republican senator in Hawaii. I bet. Hey what did you do in NZ? I once knew a bdad there with the story of
his son's relinquishment inked on his back. As in tattooed? Yikes. There's an image that belongs on the Internet. You do know tattoos are taboo in my household. Remember that conference where I had to physically extricate myself from Shea's considerable clutches to avoid being dragged off to the tattoo parlor? That was frightening. That wasn't Chicago, was it? Hub was invited to NZ to give talks. We took the kids and drove around both islands for a little over 2 weeks. Insanely beautiful scenery. The kiwis are polite and reserved and not used to tourists. My old man ordered steak one night in a remote area of the south island and was served a horse steak. hehe. I've always had a fantasy to move there. Who know? Maybe I will. Maybe I'll be raising diamond doves with Geopelia in a few years. Send me a real estate listing when you get there :-) NZ is one place I'd love to see on an extended basis. steve

You could try New Zealand Herald on Google and see if you can get into their
Real Estate section.
The Real Estate agents are madly scrabbling for listings now the boom in
housing is about to bust (according to Olly Newland). They leave leaflets in
our box several times a week, one lot sends personal mail, and one cheeky
female actually phoned me! We have been here 40 years and our home is not
for sale.
Geopelia

geopelia

06-07-2004, 08:52 PM

geopelia

06-07-2004, 09:05 PM

"Kathy " <meagan787@aol.comsthesun> wrote in message
news:20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz> (snip) Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively. You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyed
their confidence in adoption, my arce.

Ask around. Years ago girls and their parents automatically considered
adoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn't
seem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are the
usual alternatives.
I think what you are really trying to say, is that you are very pissed off
that the baby supply has dropped down to nothing and think that closing records
will increase the supply. It won't.

Not at all. I'm "pissed off" as you call it that the government can pass
this sort of retrospective legislation. I believe the girls and the
adopting parents had a right to privacy for life, as that was understood
when they agreed to adoption. I certainly wouldn't adopt a child, even if
one was available, under the present legislation.

If the government can do this, what is to stop them making other things
illegal, and charging people with the "new" crimes that they may have
committed BEFORE the legislation came in? It's a dangerous precedent.
Fair enough if the girls want an open adoption, otherwise abortion is
theonly way to ensure they are never found. Kathy

geopelia

06-07-2004, 09:05 PM

LilMtnCbn

06-07-2004, 09:19 PM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy )Date: 6/7/2004 4:58 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>(snip)Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively.
You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyed theirconfidence in adoption, my arce.

You forget that Geo is a product of what we in the US call the *secrets and
lies* generation. She probably still wipes her butt on the equivalant of old
Sears catalog pages in the outhouse on the back forty.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

LilMtnCbn

06-07-2004, 09:19 PM

LilMtnCbn

06-07-2004, 09:21 PM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/2004 10:05 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <CUaxc.1607$GB4.53704@news.xtra.co.nz>"Kathy " <meagan787@aol.comsthesun> wrote in messagenews:20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz> (snip) Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively. You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheir confidence in adoption, my arce.Ask around. Years ago girls and their parents automatically consideredadoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn'tseem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are theusual alternatives.

So what? Why should women/girls be forced into unwanted parenthood or into
providing babies for the infertile? I think it's a good thing.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

LilMtnCbn

06-07-2004, 09:21 PM

geopelia

06-08-2004, 05:22 AM

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040608002104.20909.00000472@mb-m23.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/2004 10:05 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <CUaxc.1607$GB4.53704@news.xtra.co.nz>"Kathy " <meagan787@aol.comsthesun> wrote in messagenews:20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com... >Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental Rights >From: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nz >Date: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz> (snip) Re: government opening records to adoptees >It has completely destroyed the confidence >pregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any
arrangement >may be changed retrospectively. You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheir confidence in adoption, my arce.Ask around. Years ago girls and their parents automatically consideredadoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it
doesn'tseem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are
theusual alternatives. So what? Why should women/girls be forced into unwanted parenthood or
into providing babies for the infertile? I think it's a good thing.
Abortion should be a woman's choice, but if she decides to give birth and
have the child adopted, that should also be her free choice. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend
will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

geopelia

06-08-2004, 05:22 AM

geopelia

06-08-2004, 05:28 AM

"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040608001904.20909.00000471@mb-m23.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy )Date: 6/7/2004 4:58 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>(snip)Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any
arrangementmay be changed retrospectively.You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyed
theirconfidence in adoption, my arce. You forget that Geo is a product of what we in the US call the *secrets
and lies* generation. She probably still wipes her butt on the equivalant of
old Sears catalog pages in the outhouse on the back forty.

I will refrain from any rude remarks about your toilet arrangements. There
is quite enough porn on the net now!
Geopelia ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend
will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

geopelia

06-08-2004, 05:28 AM

kat

06-08-2004, 05:44 AM

"geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:Laixc.1817$GB4.59291@news.xtra.co.nz...

Ask around. Years ago girls and their parents automatically consideredadoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn'tseem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are theusual alternatives. So what? Why should women/girls be forced into unwanted parenthood or into providing babies for the infertile? I think it's a good thing. Abortion should be a woman's choice, but if she decides to give birth and have the child adopted, that should also be her free choice.

It is. What's your point?

Kathy 1

kat

06-08-2004, 05:44 AM

Rhiannon

06-08-2004, 06:10 AM

"geopelia" <phildoran@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<CUaxc.1607$GB4.53704@news.xtra.co.nz>... "Kathy " <meagan787@aol.comsthesun> wrote in message news:20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz> (snip) Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively. You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyed their confidence in adoption, my arce. Ask around. Years ago girls and their parents automatically considered adoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn't seem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are the usual alternatives. I think what you are really trying to say, is that you are very pissed off that the baby supply has dropped down to nothing and think that closing records will increase the supply. It won't. Not at all. I'm "pissed off" as you call it that the government can pass this sort of retrospective legislation. I believe the girls and the adopting parents had a right to privacy for life, as that was understood when they agreed to adoption.

There never was any legal commitment to maintaining anonymity (as
opposed to "privacy"), and if it was assumed that there was, that was
a *mis*understanding of the situation.
BTW, you might as easily argue that people were misled into making
false assumptions.

In fact it was closed records that contravened the rights of both
natural parents and their children.

There was no promise made I certainly wouldn't adopt a child, even if one was available, under the present legislation.

Up to you (or your ilk)
And it would be a good thing, IMO.

If the government can do this, what is to stop them making other things illegal, and charging people with the "new" crimes that they may have committed BEFORE the legislation came in? It's a dangerous precedent.

The dangerous precedent was the deceptive information that encouraged
people to believe that they were entitled to anonymity under the law.

Fair enough if the girls want an open adoption, otherwise abortion is theonly way to ensure they are never found.

Better than being hidden away and then encouraged to pretend that
nothing had ever happened, don't you think? (Evidently not)

Rh.
Kathy

Rhiannon

06-08-2004, 06:10 AM

LilMtnCbn

06-08-2004, 06:48 AM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/8/2004 6:28 AM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <Ugixc.1820$GB4.59747@news.xtra.co.nz>"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:20040608001904.20909.00000471@mb-m23.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy )Date: 6/7/2004 4:58 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com>>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental Rights>From: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nz>Date: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time>Message-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>(snip)Re: government opening records to adoptees>It has completely destroyed the confidence>pregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know anyarrangement>may be changed retrospectively.You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheirconfidence in adoption, my arce. You forget that Geo is a product of what we in the US call the *secretsand lies* generation. She probably still wipes her butt on the equivalant ofold Sears catalog pages in the outhouse on the back forty.I will refrain from any rude remarks about your toilet arrangements. Thereis quite enough porn on the net now!Geopelia

I'm an adoptee. I just pee wherever I'm standing.

-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

LilMtnCbn

06-08-2004, 06:48 AM

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:03 AM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn)Date: 6/7/04 9:19 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <20040608001904.20909.00000471@mb-m23.aol.com>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy )Date: 6/7/2004 4:58 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>(snip)Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively.You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheirconfidence in adoption, my arce.You forget that Geo is a product of what we in the US call the *secrets andlies* generation.

Oh really? I should have guessed.

She probably still wipes her butt on the equivalant of oldSears catalog pages in the outhouse on the back forty.

LOL! I bet she still wears a girdle too!

Kathy

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:03 AM

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:04 AM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/8/04 5:28 AM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <Ugixc.1820$GB4.59747@news.xtra.co.nz>"LilMtnCbn" <lilmtncbn@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:20040608001904.20909.00000471@mb-m23.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy )Date: 6/7/2004 4:58 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com>>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental Rights>From: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nz>Date: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time>Message-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz>(snip)Re: government opening records to adoptees>It has completely destroyed the confidence>pregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know anyarrangement>may be changed retrospectively.You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheirconfidence in adoption, my arce. You forget that Geo is a product of what we in the US call the *secretsand lies* generation. She probably still wipes her butt on the equivalant ofold Sears catalog pages in the outhouse on the back forty.I will refrain from any rude remarks about your toilet arrangements. Thereis quite enough porn on the net now!Geopelia

Celeste, is that you !?!
Kathy

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:04 AM

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:12 AM

>Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 9:05 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <CUaxc.1607$GB4.53704@news.xtra.co.nz>"Kathy " <meagan787@aol.comsthesun> wrote in messagenews:20040607185834.02197.00000599@mb-m14.aol.com...Subject: Re: California Lesbian Mom Has No Parental RightsFrom: "geopelia" phildoran@xtra.co.nzDate: 6/7/04 2:59 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <2y5xc.1462$GB4.49933@news.xtra.co.nz> (snip) Re: government opening records to adopteesIt has completely destroyed the confidencepregnant women used to have in adoption, as now they know any arrangementmay be changed retrospectively. You're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Destroyedtheir confidence in adoption, my arce.

Again, you're ignorant to be speaking for an entire class of people. Related to
Jackie, eh?
Ask around.

I don't need to ask around to know that what you wrote is pure stupidity.

Years ago girls and their parents automatically consideredadoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn'tseem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are theusual alternatives.

So what's it to you if the child's mother and her parents no longer consider
their family a bunch of baby makers for the childless?
I think what you are really trying to say, is that you are very pissed offthat the baby supply has dropped down to nothing and think that closing recordswill increase the supply. It won't.Not at all. I'm "pissed off" as you call it that the government can passthis sort of retrospective legislation. I believe the girls and theadopting parents had a right to privacy for life, as that was understoodwhen they agreed to adoption.

Nobody promised any such thing.

I certainly wouldn't adopt a child, even ifone was available, under the present legislation.

Well pin a medal on your righteous ***.
If the government can do this, what is to stop them making other thingsillegal, and charging people with the "new" crimes that they may havecommitted BEFORE the legislation came in? It's a dangerous precedent.

What ever are you babbling about?
Fair enough if the girls want an open adoption, otherwise abortion istheonly way to ensure they are never found. Kathy

Kathy

Kathy

06-08-2004, 07:12 AM

Damsel Plum

06-08-2004, 11:44 AM

Geopelia:
Years ago girls and their parents automatically consideredadoption, even if they didn't decide on it in the end, but today it doesn'tseem to be considered much, it's abortion or keeping the child that are theusual alternatives.

There are people on this ng who think that adoption is evil because
they themselves regret having relinquished, they were subject to
abuses in the system, or they had a bad adoptive experience.

Kathy:
So what's it to you if the child's mother and her parents no longer consider their family a bunch of baby makers for the childless?

That remark sounds like a case in point. It's a question of
perspective. My birthmother certainly didn't consider herself as
such. The remark above suggests a degree of contempt for the
childless who seek parenthood through adoption, am I wrong?

Kathy:
I think what you are really trying to say, is that you are very pissed off that the baby supply has dropped down to nothing and think that closing records will increase the supply. It won't.

Geopelia:
Not at all. I'm "pissed off" as you call it that the government can passthis sort of retrospective legislation. I believe the girls and theadopting parents had a right to privacy for life, as that was understoodwhen they agreed to adoption.

The problem is that many birthmothers were promised that they *would*
be able to contact (or at least be contacted) by their offspring when
they reach adulthood. Then they realize that was not the case. So
they were screwed for a long time. Besides, it does sound like sour
grapes on your part, Geopelia, as I am assuming you are a potential
adoptive parent rather than a birthparent scared of some