washingtonpost.com
September 28, 2004

Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect
Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer

Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro
station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone.
A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit
Police.

The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower
her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to
speak into her cell phone.

Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by
the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old
woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for
three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with
two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace"
and resisting arrest.

Those are the facts on which both sides agree.

They interpret the events of Sept. 9 very differently.

Transit Police and some Metro officials say Saoutis was protecting the
peace by removing a woman who had overstepped the boundaries of civil
behavior because she was loudly cursing into her phone.

They say that cell phones have become just another instrument of
loutish behavior in the public space and that they are fighting a
dramatic deterioration of manners in the transit system.

"We need better enforcement to allow people to know we are serious and
want to maintain the high-quality level of the system," said Robert J.
Smith, chairman of the Metro board, adding that "ranting youth" have
become a plague on the subway. "This isn't Montana. We live in a very
dense region, and people are on top of each other all the time."

Smith, who refuses to carry a cell phone, said he thinks Metro riders
need to use the devices with care. "We wouldn't allow someone to come
into the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and shout obscenities into a cell
phone," he said.

But Aaron and some defenders of free speech say the Transit Police are
the ones who overstepped boundaries by making a crime out of
conversation and pushing a pregnant woman to her knees. The incident
took place out of doors and not in the confines of a rail car or bus,
they note.

And they point to a string of other incidents, including the July
arrest of a 45-year-old woman for chewing a PayDay candy bar and the
2000 arrest of a 12-year-old girl for eating a french fry, that are
earning the Transit Police a national reputation as an agency itching
to lock up riders.

"Technically, the police officer is right, but the result is wrong,"
said D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), who represents the
city on the Metro board. "How do we prevent minor transgressions
escalating into major problems? It's not what any of us want. We don't
want pregnant women booked for loud cell phone conversations. We don't
want 12-year-old girls in handcuffs for eating a single french fry.
Whether it's training or guidance to our officers, we have to do
something."

Johnny Barnes, executive director of the Washington area chapter of
the American Civil Liberties Union, called Aaron's arrest "troubling."

"There seems to be an unusual attention paid to activities of
patrons," Barnes said. "One should be able to ride the Metro and
exercise a range of rights without fear of intervention from Metro
police."

Aaron, who lives in Silver Spring and works as a clerk at the Food and
Drug Administration, said she was talking to her fiance on her cell
phone as she walked toward the bus bay about 4:45 p.m. Sept. 9 to
catch the Route C4 Metrobus.

"Our phone conversation had ended," she said. "I'm walking down the
stairs and the transit cop said, 'You have to lower your voice,
ma'am.' I said, 'You can't tell me how loud I can talk.' He said, 'I
can arrest you,' and he grabbed my arm. I said, 'What are you doing?
I'm pregnant! Oh, so you want to flex some muscle today?' He grabbed
my hand, and we struggled."

Aaron acknowledged that she was loud on the phone but said she wasn't
cursing and lobbed a profanity only after Saoutis grabbed her.

After her release that night, Aaron went to Holy Cross Hospital and
was treated in the emergency room for a bruise she said was a result
of Saoutis's pushing her to the ground and placing his knee on her
upper back.

Saoutis, who is about to complete his first year on the job with the
Transit Police, was not available for an interview yesterday,
according to Deputy Chief Tim Gronau.

Gronau said his officer properly enforced the law and arrested Aaron
because it was clear she wasn't taking his warning seriously.

"We're not either pro or negative cell phones," he said. "The issue is
[that] the volume of her conversation, coupled with the language, is
not conducive to socially accepted standards of behavior."

"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:57cfd534.0409280648.7c079deb@posting.google.c om... washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone. Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest. Those are the facts on which both sides agree. They interpret the events of Sept. 9 very differently. Transit Police and some Metro officials say Saoutis was protecting the peace by removing a woman who had overstepped the boundaries of civil behavior because she was loudly cursing into her phone. They say that cell phones have become just another instrument of loutish behavior in the public space and that they are fighting a dramatic deterioration of manners in the transit system. "We need better enforcement to allow people to know we are serious and want to maintain the high-quality level of the system," said Robert J. Smith, chairman of the Metro board, adding that "ranting youth" have become a plague on the subway. "This isn't Montana. We live in a very dense region, and people are on top of each other all the time." Smith, who refuses to carry a cell phone, said he thinks Metro riders need to use the devices with care. "We wouldn't allow someone to come into the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and shout obscenities into a cell phone," he said.

Good, lock her up. Now I just wish someone, anyone, could arrest the
thousands of socker moms who are looking one way, driving another way, and
speaking into their cell phones at every intersection that I come to every
morning that I commute to work. I say arrest them all and let the judge
sort them out. Oh, and tow their SUVs to the pound where they can sit for
$100+/day. Yup, that should just about make everything right in my world.

"£¢$¥" <£¢$¥@phantom.com> wrote in message
news:415990e8$0$74194$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. .. "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message news:57cfd534.0409280648.7c079deb@posting.google.c om... washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone. Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest. Those are the facts on which both sides agree. They interpret the events of Sept. 9 very differently. Transit Police and some Metro officials say Saoutis was protecting the peace by removing a woman who had overstepped the boundaries of civil behavior because she was loudly cursing into her phone. They say that cell phones have become just another instrument of loutish behavior in the public space and that they are fighting a dramatic deterioration of manners in the transit system. "We need better enforcement to allow people to know we are serious and want to maintain the high-quality level of the system," said Robert J. Smith, chairman of the Metro board, adding that "ranting youth" have become a plague on the subway. "This isn't Montana. We live in a very dense region, and people are on top of each other all the time." Smith, who refuses to carry a cell phone, said he thinks Metro riders need to use the devices with care. "We wouldn't allow someone to come into the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and shout obscenities into a cell phone," he said. Good, lock her up. Now I just wish someone, anyone, could arrest the thousands of socker moms who are looking one way, driving another way, and speaking into their cell phones at every intersection that I come to every morning that I commute to work. I say arrest them all and let the judge sort them out. Oh, and tow their SUVs to the pound where they can sit for $100+/day. Yup, that should just about make everything right in my world.

I'll give you an Amen to that!
Betsy (no cell phone for me!)

"£¢$¥" <£¢$¥@phantom.com> wrote in message
news:415990e8$0$74194$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
Good, lock her up. Now I just wish someone, anyone, could arrest the thousands of socker moms who are looking one way, driving another way, and speaking into their cell phones at every intersection that I come to every morning that I commute to work. I say arrest them all and let the judge sort them out. Oh, and tow their SUVs to the pound where they can sit for $100+/day. Yup, that should just about make everything right in my world.

Agreed on all points. And I feel certain you didn't mean to exclude in that
round-up the "tens of thousands" of those yuppie dads, pseudo-execs 'taking
a meeting' over their cell phones as they read from the screen of their
PDAs while recklessly swerving their SUVs across 4 lanes of
rush-hour freeway traffic as they realize they've just blathered past their
exit.

My world, too, is now in order.

Wanda

"I used to care, but things have changed." Bob Dylan ("Wonder Boys")

On 28 Sep 2004 07:48:58 -0700, MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote:
washingtonpost.comSeptember 28, 2004Between Metro and Cell User, a DisconnectOfficer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud CallBy Lyndsey LaytonWashington Post Staff WriterSakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metrostation several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone.A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro TransitPolice.The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lowerher voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how tospeak into her cell phone.

Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for the
fetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life of
hell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****.

--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:28:17 -0700, Scott en Aztlán
<slothkills@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote:
On 28 Sep 2004 07:48:58 -0700, MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote:washingtonpost.comSeptember 28, 2004Between Metro and Cell User, a DisconnectOfficer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud CallBy Lyndsey LaytonWashington Post Staff WriterSakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metrostation several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone.A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro TransitPolice.The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lowerher voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how tospeak into her cell phone.Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for thefetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life ofhell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****.


Scott - the cleaners called - your hoods are ready.

>Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for thefetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life ofhell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****.
---------------------
Clearly, she was obnoxious and needed to be taught a lesson, but what
you said, that's way harsh and uncalled for.

Reminds me of one of my favorite Dave Chappelle skit series.

Clearly a case of 'When "Keeping It Real" Goes Wrong'. :>)


MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote in message news:<57cfd534.0409280648.7c079deb@posting.google.com>... washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.

Abe wrote:Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for thefetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life ofhell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****. --------------------- Clearly, she was obnoxious and needed to be taught a lesson, but what you said, that's way harsh and uncalled for.

The officer could have caused permanent, severe damage to the unborn baby.

At that point, even if she was wrong to be loud and obnoxious (if she was), I'd
have told the idiot cop to arrest me. While at the police station I would have
been filing a formal complaint and considering pressing charges.

Yes, sometimes it's necessary for a peace officer to use force. They also need
to use common sense.



--
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Steve Sobol wrote: At that point, even if she was wrong to be loud and obnoxious (if she was),

That should have read "which she was"

I'd have told the idiot cop to arrest me. While at the police station I would have been filing a formal complaint and considering pressing charges.

The punishment definitely did NOT fit the crime.


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Steve Sobol wrote:
Yes, sometimes it's necessary for a peace officer to use force. They also need to use common sense.



Peace officer. Interesting, semi-soft expression. Common sense is not a
quality I would associate with many political enforcement agents.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:49:48 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:
Abe wrote:Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for thefetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life ofhell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****. --------------------- Clearly, she was obnoxious and needed to be taught a lesson, but what you said, that's way harsh and uncalled for.The officer could have caused permanent, severe damage to the unborn baby.At that point, even if she was wrong to be loud and obnoxious (if she was), I'dhave told the idiot cop to arrest me. While at the police station I would havebeen filing a formal complaint and considering pressing charges.Yes, sometimes it's necessary for a peace officer to use force. They also needto use common sense.

And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phone
responsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed off
to the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue with
an officer of the law.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Joseph wrote:
And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phone responsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed off to the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue with an officer of the law. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


You don't argue with the law eh? Would that be the same 'law' that
sodomizes men with a billyclub? Would that be the same law that pulls over
a woman on a traffic infraction - then rapes and strangles her? Would that
be the same law that fires 40+ bullets at an unarmed man? Decent
intelligent lawmen deserve respect. All to often these types are a rarity.

A policeman using force on a pregnant woman not engaged in any form of
violence is the lowest form of life we can encounter in our society. Such
people should be met with a louisville-slugger on the head followed by
handcuffing - then kicked to the gutter.

Ron Miller wrote:
Joseph wrote:And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phoneresponsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed offto the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue withan officer of the law.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -You don't argue with the law eh? Would that be the same 'law' thatsodomizes men with a billyclub? Would that be the same law that pulls overa woman on a traffic infraction - then rapes and strangles her? Would thatbe the same law that fires 40+ bullets at an unarmed man? Decentintelligent lawmen deserve respect. All to often these types are a rarity.A policeman using force on a pregnant woman not engaged in any form ofviolence is the lowest form of life we can encounter in our society. Suchpeople should be met with a louisville-slugger on the head followed byhandcuffing - then kicked to the gutter.
Well the cop told her to keep it down, she could have behaved like a
LADY and talked at a normal decibel. NO she got stupid, he did what he
had to do. She should have enough respect for herself to not cuss loudly
on her phone. Maybe she should have enough common sense to not struggle
when getting arrested.

--
Sharing is caring Screw the RIAA

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<415B744C.2090905@JustThe.net>... Abe wrote:Clearly this obnoxious **** deserved the treatment she got. As for thefetus, if it's lucky this ***** will miscarry and spare it a life ofhell being raised by this inconsiderate sack of ****. --------------------- Clearly, she was obnoxious and needed to be taught a lesson, but what you said, that's way harsh and uncalled for. The officer could have caused permanent, severe damage to the unborn baby.
Sheesh. It's not like a uterus is made of Waterford crystal. It
isn't as though you can shake out a fetus like candy from a pinata.
Nor is a 5 months In Pig belly big enough to make her body rest solely
on her abdomen. On some women, you can't tell at 5 months. All the
knocked up girls in my high school took gym (volleyball, raquestball,
basketball etc.).

Regardless, she was face down on the ground because of her own
actions---being an in pig mama doesn't get you off the hook. How hard
is it so say "Whatever, officer" and go on with your life and ignore
the asshattery he may have exhibited? She certainly wasn't doing any
of this in an effort to teach him about effective community policing
techiques. It appears that the cop couldn't cuff her otherwise---and
yes sometimes there are cops and criminals who can do the handcuff
dance upright. So she--the adult--threw a tantrum. All we can do is
pray for that pweshus lil chyylldd--becasue that kid has no chance.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:12:19 +0000, Ron Miller
<RonMiller@bellsouth.org> wrote:
You don't argue with the law eh? Would that be the same 'law' thatsodomizes men with a billyclub? Would that be the same law that pulls overa woman on a traffic infraction - then rapes and strangles her? Would thatbe the same law that fires 40+ bullets at an unarmed man? Decentintelligent lawmen deserve respect. All to often these types are a rarity.

You are grasping at straws. The officer asked her to quiet down and
she mouthed off to him. Should the officer have just let it go?
Whether you like the pigs or not you *do not* mouth off to an officer.
If you do you'll likely suffer the consequences. That's how things
work in the real world. It's also likely that when he first
confronted her that he was not aware that she was pregnant. Also
being pregnant does not give you an excuse for being inconsiderate.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Ron Miller" <RonMiller@bellsouth.org> wrote in message
news:pYX6d.2217$DV3.956@bignews5.bellsouth.net... Joseph wrote: And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phone responsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed off to the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue with an officer of the law. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - You don't argue with the law eh? Would that be the same 'law' that sodomizes men with a billyclub? Would that be the same law that pulls over a woman on a traffic infraction - then rapes and strangles her? Would that be the same law that fires 40+ bullets at an unarmed man? Decent intelligent lawmen deserve respect. All to often these types are a rarity. A policeman using force on a pregnant woman not engaged in any form of violence is the lowest form of life we can encounter in our society. Such people should be met with a louisville-slugger on the head followed by handcuffing - then kicked to the gutter.

This reminds me of the "96 year old gramma" getting arrested and cuffed.....so
if the "fragile" break the law, just let 'em go, they just say "saweee" and
move on.
mmmkay.
::making note::
Arrest. Cuff (sometimes prior to arrest for safety purposes). Place in back of
patrol car.
Policy.
V

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:31:59 -0700, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>
wrote:
And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phoneresponsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed offto the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue withan officer of the law.


Says who?

"Bob Ward" <bobward@email.com> wrote in message
news:doepl0dphl7qanehu6usm5dmumr41idpts@4ax.com... On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:31:59 -0700, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phoneresponsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed offto the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue withan officer of the law. Says who?

Exactly. They're just people, they aren't any better than you or I and I'm
sure as hell not going to back
down from one if I think I'm in the right or they are going beyond the
bounds of their authority.

Joseph wrote: And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phone responsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed off to the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue with an officer of the law.

Did you read my correction to my own post? I typo'd.

And you're right, it's really, really stupid to argue with a cop, but that
doesn't give the cop the right to injure the suspect/perp either. The use of
force doesn't fit with the crime, which was a pretty minor crime.


--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
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In article <cf19679c.0409301440.3912a3de@posting.google.com>,
acreed@state.mt.us (Anna) wrote:
Sheesh. It's not like a uterus is made of Waterford crystal. It isn't as though you can shake out a fetus like candy from a pinata. Nor is a 5 months In Pig belly big enough to make her body rest solely on her abdomen. On some women, you can't tell at 5 months. All the knocked up girls in my high school took gym (volleyball, raquestball, basketball etc.). Regardless, she was face down on the ground because of her own actions---being an in pig mama doesn't get you off the hook. How hard is it so say "Whatever, officer" and go on with your life and ignore the asshattery he may have exhibited? She certainly wasn't doing any of this in an effort to teach him about effective community policing techiques. It appears that the cop couldn't cuff her otherwise---and yes sometimes there are cops and criminals who can do the handcuff dance upright. So she--the adult--threw a tantrum. All we can do is pray for that pweshus lil chyylldd--becasue that kid has no chance.

LOL. Do analogies, allegories and metaphorical references come naturally
to you or do you have to practice? I actually spend time thinking of
ways to say things like you do. It is great fun.

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:<cjigks$2qt$1@ratbert.glorb.com>... Joseph wrote: And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phone responsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed off to the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue with an officer of the law. Did you read my correction to my own post? I typo'd. And you're right, it's really, really stupid to argue with a cop, but that doesn't give the cop the right to injure the suspect/perp either. The use of force doesn't fit with the crime, which was a pretty minor crime.

Resisting arrest is not a minor crime, at least to the police.

He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.

Draco

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:07:52 GMT, Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 06:31:59 -0700, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com>wrote:And you don't think the woman had any responsibility to use her phoneresponsibly? She was asked to keep her voice down and she mouthed offto the officer and ignored the request. You just *don't* argue withan officer of the law.Says who?

Hey, go for it! When you get wrestled to the ground don't come
whining here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In article <223pl0914qd0418pe2s6hsp9oo5ljbc27l@4ax.com>,
Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:12:19 +0000, Ron Miller<RonMiller@bellsouth.org> wrote:You don't argue with the law eh? Would that be the same 'law' thatsodomizes men with a billyclub? Would that be the same law that pulls overa woman on a traffic infraction - then rapes and strangles her? Would thatbe the same law that fires 40+ bullets at an unarmed man? Decentintelligent lawmen deserve respect. All to often these types are a rarity.You are grasping at straws. The officer asked her to quiet down andshe mouthed off to him. Should the officer have just let it go?

Yes.

Draco wrote:
He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.

Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical?


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In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>,
Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote: He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical?

And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote: He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?
Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in the
car?
mmm...
V

In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>,
V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote:> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in thecar?

Why do you ask?

tjab wrote: In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote:He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?

Gotta take SOMEONE's...


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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
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Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

>> And you're right, it's really, really stupid to argue with a cop, but that doesn't give the cop the right to injure the suspect/perp either. The use of force doesn't fit with the crime, which was a pretty minor crime.
Resisting arrest is not a minor crime, at least to the police.

Resisting arrest is routine and usually minor, often police charge slightly
resisting 'suspects' with resisting along with other
charges to help ensure a guilty plea to one or more of them,
while the resisting charges are almost always dropped.
He tried to cuff her calmy,

Cuff her for what, Resisting arrest? How calm, knocking a pregnant
woman to the ground.
she chucked a hissy fit.

And he knocked her to the ground. Duh. What a sad man. I'll bet he will
gain the problem cop label and eventually get the city sued and loose
his job.

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:43:03 +0000 (UTC), Anonymous Sender
<anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote:
And you're right, it's really, really stupid to argue with a cop, but that doesn't give the cop the right to injure the suspect/perp either. The use of force doesn't fit with the crime, which was a pretty minor crime. Resisting arrest is not a minor crime, at least to the police.Resisting arrest is routine and usually minor, often police charge slightlyresisting 'suspects' with resisting along with othercharges to help ensure a guilty plea to one or more of them,while the resisting charges are almost always dropped. He tried to cuff her calmy,Cuff her for what, Resisting arrest? How calm, knocking a pregnantwoman to the ground. she chucked a hissy fit.And he knocked her to the ground. Duh. What a sad man. I'll bet he willgain the problem cop label and eventually get the city sued and loosehis job.

Great ain't it how the anonymous responder always has the definitive
answer!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >Draco wrote: > >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. > >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in thecar? Why do you ask?

Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?
Whose word are you taking?
V

"V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny... "tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote:> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it? Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in the car? mmm... V

how is car involved when the cop was a DC transit cop who is not going to
have a car anywhere near him. he probably doesn't even have
one assigned to him.

"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:b69f3b67527b202f6e38d91321988c68@remailer.met acolo.com... And you're right, it's really, really stupid to argue with a cop, but that doesn't give the cop the right to injure the suspect/perp either. The use of force doesn't fit with the crime, which was a pretty minor crime. Resisting arrest is not a minor crime, at least to the police. Resisting arrest is routine and usually minor, often police charge slightly resisting 'suspects' with resisting along with other charges to help ensure a guilty plea to one or more of them, while the resisting charges are almost always dropped. He tried to cuff her calmy, Cuff her for what, Resisting arrest? How calm, knocking a pregnant woman to the ground. she chucked a hissy fit. And he knocked her to the ground. Duh. What a sad man. I'll bet he will gain the problem cop label and eventually get the city sued and loose his job.

we can certainly hope so.

MrPepper11 wrote: washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.

Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.

The Punisher wrote:
Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.

Whatever. Have you always been this ignorant?

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

"The Punisher" <spanky@spanky.org> wrote in message
news:k0z7d.50027$ci3.2187336@twister.southeast.rr. com... MrPepper11 wrote: washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone. Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.

Nice name "The Punisher."
Do you do children's birthday parties as well, or do you keep it to adult
entertainment?
hee hee ;-)
V

This is typical of most people. A officer of the law asks you
politely to stop doing something. Instead of being respectful and
following the officers instructions let's tell the officer that "he
had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone" and
basically initiates a confrontation with an officer of the law.

Then later, when the officer does what he or she is paid to do, let's
scream at the top of our voice that "I was abused, mistreated & it was
racially motivated."

Personally, I would take her phone away, shove it down her throat and
shoot her on the spot and then claim that it was self defense. "*****,
whacked out and came at me with her cell phone held over her head. I
was in fear for my life." This would just make things a lot easier
all around.

Don't you think????

Unfortunately, because of the weak laws that we have in the U.S.A.,
this person will now be entitled to sue the officer for God knows
what, and sad to say, she stands a better than 50% chance of winning.


On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:23:04 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"The Punisher" <spanky@spanky.org> wrote in messagenews:k0z7d.50027$ci3.2187336@twister.southe ast.rr.com... MrPepper11 wrote: washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call By Lyndsey Layton Washington Post Staff Writer Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police. The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone. Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.Nice name "The Punisher."Do you do children's birthday parties as well, or do you keep it to adultentertainment?hee hee ;-)V

The Punisher <spanky@spanky.org> wrote in message news:<k0z7d.50027$ci3.2187336@twister.southeast.rr.com>... MrPepper11 wrote: washingtonpost.com September 28, 2004 Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.


Wonder what her Baby Daddy thought about it?

The Quiet One wrote: Then later, when the officer does what he or she is paid to do, let's scream at the top of our voice that "I was abused, mistreated & it was racially motivated." Personally, I would take her phone away, shove it down her throat...

This is NOT what officers are paid to do. You sound dangerous!

(KM)

The Quiet One wrote: This is typical of most people. A officer of the law asks you politely to stop doing something. Instead of being respectful and following the officers instructions let's tell the officer that "he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone" and basically initiates a confrontation with an officer of the law. Then later, when the officer does what he or she is paid to do, let's scream at the top of our voice that "I was abused, mistreated & it was racially motivated." Personally, I would take her phone away, shove it down her throat and shoot her on the spot and then claim that it was self defense. "*****, whacked out and came at me with her cell phone held over her head. I was in fear for my life." This would just make things a lot easier all around.

Y'all don't get it.

The woman WAS an asshole, and rude, and ignorant on top of that.

However, I'm betting a whole bunch of you who are replying have never been
pregnant. I haven't either, seeing as how I'm male and can't carry a child...
but our family just went through a childbirth about six months ago. My wife had
to be very careful because if she got hurt, the fetus could suffer permanent
damage or perhaps even die (depending on how severe Mom's injuries were and
where they occurred). There are restrictions on a lot of physical activities
during pregnancy, too.

Should Mom have been cuffed? Yeah, if she was raising enough of a stink, I'd
say she should. But if that baby got hurt in any way, I hope she goes after the
city. There's NO reason to hurt the baby just because the cop was pissed at
Mom. Period. And if the cop isn't intelligent enough to be able to determine
that Mom was pregnant (if Mom was more than a month or so into the pregnancy),
he's a moron who doesn't deserve to have the job he has.

Of course, I'm sure some of you will come up with a reason to argue this
point... :P

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 02:33:41 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:Draco wrote:> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in thecar?mmm...V


You've seen such a video tape, or are you just tossing gas on the
fire?

In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>,
V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>,> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:> >Draco wrote:> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical?>> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?>Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in thecar? Why do you ask?Why is it that you are askin

Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor
of any video from a car. Are you?

In article <uqstl0dvcv5kvebp6urlo4ctf13n7f6rpm@4ax.com>,
The Quiet One <TheQuietOne@TheQuietBoard.COM> wrote:This is typical of most people. A officer of the law asks youpolitely to stop doing something. Instead of being respectful andfollowing the officers instructions let's tell the officer that "hehad no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone" andbasically initiates a confrontation with an officer of the law.Then later, when the officer does what he or she is paid to do,

I've snipped the rest, since it all stems from this faulty assumption.

Your right. That's why I am not an officer.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:01:28 -0400, poboxdc@ix.netcom.com wrote:
The Quiet One wrote: Then later, when the officer does what he or she is paid to do, let's scream at the top of our voice that "I was abused, mistreated & it was racially motivated." Personally, I would take her phone away, shove it down her throat...This is NOT what officers are paid to do. You sound dangerous!(KM)

>> Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.
Nice name "The Punisher." Do you do children's birthday parties as well, or do you keep it to adult entertainment? hee hee ;-) V

Probabally just a cop.

>> Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got.

Wonder what her Baby Daddy thought about it?

I don't know but lets say the guy down the street knocked her to the
ground like that for talking loud.

>>And he knocked her to the ground. Duh. What a sad man. I'll bet he willgain the problem cop label and eventually get the city sued and loosehis job.
Great ain't it how the anonymous responder always has the definitiveanswer!

Sure simply fire his ***. If he knocks pregnant women to the ground like that,
he dosen't belong with the 'real men' of law enforcement.

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjmuua$42g$1@ratbert.glorb.com...

Mom. Period. And if the cop isn't intelligent enough to be able to determine that Mom was pregnant (if Mom was more than a month or so into the pregnancy), he's a moron who doesn't deserve to have the job he has.

one month?!?! NOBODY is showing at one month. my wife is just starting
week 24
and she didnt start showing until about a month ago. even now, you still
cant tell when
she's wearing loose clothing and that's not abnormal.

Rob wrote: "Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:cjmuua$42g$1@ratbert.glorb.com...Mom. Period. And if the cop isn't intelligent enough to be able todetermine that Mom was pregnant (if Mom was more than a month or so intothe pregnancy), he's a moron who doesn't deserve to have the job he has. one month?!?! NOBODY is showing at one month.

It wasn't an exact number.

my wife is just starting week 24 and she didnt start showing until about a month ago. even now, you still cant tell when she's wearing loose clothing

My kid was tiny, relatively speaking. Just a smidge under six pounds birth
weight. No, mom wasn't showing during the first month, but it was long before
the fifth month that she started showing. You're six months into the pregnancy
and she just started showing within the last month? Sounds like your baby is
going to be *really* small. I hope it is born healthy.
and that's not abnormal.

Eh, I don't know about that. It may not be all that rare, but I wouldn't call
it *normal.*

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Emerald wrote: The Punisher <spanky@spanky.org> wrote in message news:<k0z7d.50027$ci3.2187336@twister.southeast.rr.com>...MrPepper11 wrote:washingtonpost.comSeptember 28, 2004Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got. Wonder what her Baby Daddy thought about it?

Beats me, her Baby Daddy should tell the ***** to stop mouthing off to cops.

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: > >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >> >Draco wrote: >> > >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. >> > >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get
physical? >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it? >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in
the >car? Why do you ask?Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?
Whose word are you taking?
V
Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor of any video from a car. Are you?


No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know who actually
was the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and being
around them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight the
police......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. Perhaps it is
the crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. I was
mean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did not
swing at her, though.
I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.
anyway....
It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,
...."And whatever the answer...."
SO what is your theory?
V

"The Quiet One" <TheQuietOne@TheQuietBoard.COM> wrote in message
news:uqstl0dvcv5kvebp6urlo4ctf13n7f6rpm@4ax.com...
snip Personally, I would take her phone away, shove it down her throat and shoot her on the spot and then claim that it was self defense. "*****, whacked out and came at me with her cell phone held over her head. I was in fear for my life." This would just make things a lot easier all around. Don't you think???? Unfortunately, because of the weak laws that we have in the U.S.A., this person will now be entitled to sue the officer for God knows what, and sad to say, she stands a better than 50% chance of winning.

::gulp::
Whatever you say. Bad day at work?
V

"The Quiet One" <TheQuietOne@TheQuietBoard.COM> wrote in message
news:qo8ul09gr133uhdfdh5qtqh2hs8iuskp9s@4ax.com... Your right. That's why I am not an officer.

Whew!
Ya had me skeerd there for a bit, quiet lad.
V

"Rob" <rob@nospam.com> wrote in message news:7zH7d.2570$L91.1135@trndny01... "Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:cjmuua$42g$1@ratbert.glorb.com... Mom. Period. And if the cop isn't intelligent enough to be able to determine that Mom was pregnant (if Mom was more than a month or so into the pregnancy), he's a moron who doesn't deserve to have the job he has. one month?!?! NOBODY is showing at one month. my wife is just starting week 24 and she didnt start showing until about a month ago. even now, you still cant tell when she's wearing loose clothing and that's not abnormal.

I did not show until my sixth month!
I guess now, when arresting a female, she needs to piss on a pregnancy stick
to determine how rough you can be with her.
Nice concept.
Doih.
V

"Bob Ward" <bobward@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0r3ul01gm9rus1mpqatck2mvk1v6nlpgjv@4ax.com... On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 02:33:41 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >Draco wrote: > >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. > >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she get physical? And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running in thecar?mmm...V You've seen such a video tape, or are you just tossing gas on the fire?

Food for thought.
V

V wrote:
I did not show until my sixth month! I guess now, when arresting a female, she needs to piss on a pregnancy stick to determine how rough you can be with her.

Hm. Yeah... whatever. I didn't say that.

**SJS (maybe I should just shut up - even the people I'm agreeing with are
getting pissy with me)

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 01:29:27 GMT, The Punisher <spanky@spanky.org>
wrote:
Emerald wrote: The Punisher <spanky@spanky.org> wrote in message news:<k0z7d.50027$ci3.2187336@twister.southeast.rr.com>...MrPepper11 wrote:>washingtonpost.com>September 28, 2004>Typical cocky American-African attitude. She deserved what she got. Wonder what her Baby Daddy thought about it?Beats me, her Baby Daddy should tell the ***** to stop mouthing off to cops.


If her Baby Daddy beats you, why boast of it here? Sounds like one of
those kinky practices you should consider keeping to yourself.

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjnn8g$9ia$4@ratbert.glorb.com... V wrote: I did not show until my sixth month! I guess now, when arresting a female, she needs to piss on a pregnancy
stick to determine how rough you can be with her. Hm. Yeah... whatever. I didn't say that. **SJS (maybe I should just shut up - even the people I'm agreeing with are getting pissy with me) --

You should speak your mind.
We are all not going to agree.
It is a fact.
V

V wrote: You should speak your mind. We are all not going to agree.

Oh, I know. I just have a problem when people spout off at me even when we are
obviously agreeing with each other. Whatever - I have better things to do than
argue about this, anyhow.

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjns3i$ae8$1@ratbert.glorb.com... V wrote: You should speak your mind. We are all not going to agree. Oh, I know. I just have a problem when people spout off at me even when we
are obviously agreeing with each other. Whatever - I have better things to do
than argue about this, anyhow. --

You are true. I have posted here off and on a while, but do not recall your
position on law enforcement.
V

V wrote:
You are true. I have posted here off and on a while, but do not recall your position on law enforcement.

Probably because I don't post to alt.law-enforcement. I am crossposting from
alt.cellular where I am a regular contributor. :)

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjp9og$ptt$1@ratbert.glorb.com... V wrote: You are true. I have posted here off and on a while, but do not recall
your position on law enforcement. Probably because I don't post to alt.law-enforcement. I am crossposting from alt.cellular where I am a regular contributor. :) --

Oh. Ic.
These darned crossposters....oops.
;-)
V

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjnher$8h0$1@ratbert.glorb.com... Rob wrote: "Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:cjmuua$42g$1@ratbert.glorb.com...Mom. Period. And if the cop isn't intelligent enough to be able todetermine that Mom was pregnant (if Mom was more than a month or so intothe pregnancy), he's a moron who doesn't deserve to have the job he has. one month?!?! NOBODY is showing at one month. It wasn't an exact number. my wife is just starting week 24 and she didnt start showing until about a month ago. even now, you still cant tell when she's wearing loose clothing My kid was tiny, relatively speaking. Just a smidge under six pounds birth weight. No, mom wasn't showing during the first month, but it was long before the fifth month that she started showing. You're six months into the pregnancy and she just started showing within the last month? Sounds like your baby is going to be *really* small. I hope it is born healthy.and that's not abnormal. Eh, I don't know about that. It may not be all that rare, but I wouldn't call it *normal.*

everyone shows differently. we just had a level 2 ultrasound and were told
that the
baby was actually a little ahead of schedule as far as size goes. on the
other hand,
we just met up with my cousin today who is 3 weeks behind my wife and she's
showing much more, but she was also wearing big baggy clothes which make you
look larger while my wife tends to wear clothes that look normal (theyre
maternity
but you cant really tell).
-- JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Rob wrote: everyone shows differently.

I know.
that the baby was actually a little ahead of schedule as far as size goes. on the other hand,

Well, good luck anyhow. Hope your baby comes out as cute as ours is. (not
bloody likely though) :)

http://stevesobol.com/itsagirl/ but I need to post new pictures....

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:cjqpuc$4r0$1@ratbert.glorb.com... Rob wrote: everyone shows differently. I know. that the baby was actually a little ahead of schedule as far as size goes. on the other hand, Well, good luck anyhow. Hope your baby comes out as cute as ours is. (not bloody likely though) :) http://stevesobol.com/itsagirl/ but I need to post new pictures....

eh, they all look the same to me...ugly. i have no reason to expect ours
will be any different :).
-- JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>,
V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>,> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:> >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>,> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:> >> >Draco wrote:> >> >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.> >> >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical?> >>> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?> >>> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running inthe> >car?>> Why do you ask?>Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know who actuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common.

1) Begs the question.
2) Not true.
Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. I wasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did notswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory?

My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without
listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a
cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be
rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu... In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: > >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, >> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: >> > >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message >news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, >> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >> >> >Draco wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. >> >> > >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical? >> >> >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it? >> >> >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running >> >inthe >> >car? >> >> Why do you ask? >> > >Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know whoactuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. 1) Begs the question. 2) Not true.Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. Iwasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did notswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory? My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.

Technically I agree with you, but I suppose it could be interpreted
to be disturbing the peace if she has gone beyond talking and into
screaming and shouting (with or without obscenities).

- The devils advocate

Rob wrote: "Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:cjqpuc$4r0$1@ratbert.glorb.com... Rob wrote: everyone shows differently. I know. that the baby was actually a little ahead of schedule as far as size goes. on the other hand, Well, good luck anyhow. Hope your baby comes out as cute as ours is. (not bloody likely though) :) http://stevesobol.com/itsagirl/ but I need to post new pictures.... eh, they all look the same to me...ugly. i have no reason to expect ours will be any different :).

fwiw my first which I was expecting to be ugly -- was beautiful, very
pale with just little pink lips and blue eyes (when open). Now the 2nd,
I expected to be just as lovely was the stereotypical Winston Churchill
lookalike baby -- fortunately he was a boy so it didn't matter so much
:) and he grew up as handsome as his sister stayed lovely :)
yD -- JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

On 4 Oct 2004 13:24:20 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:
In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>,V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: > >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, >> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: >> > >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message >news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, >> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >> >> >Draco wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. >> >> > >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical? >> >> >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it? >> >> >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running inthe >> >car? >> >> Why do you ask? >> > >Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know who actuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common.1) Begs the question.2) Not true.Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. I wasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did notswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory?My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.


Depends where the talking loudly on a cell phone.

In Message-ID:<41618E32.B50285EB@aol.com> posted on Mon, 04 Oct 2004
13:53:54 -0400, yaffaDina wrote: Begin
I expected to be just as lovely was the stereotypical Winston Churchilllookalike baby

Or Alfred Hitchcock <g>

--

Bart

On 4 Oct 2004 13:24:20 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:
My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.

If he's enforcing metro rules whether you think it's "constitutionally
protected" is up for debate. If you want to go on someone's property
and not obey their rules you'll sometimes pay the price of your
decision to not defer to their rules.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In Message-ID:<cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu> posted on 4 Oct 2004
13:24:20 -0400, tjab wrote: Begin
My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.

Curious;
If there's some decibel level or grammatical content when spoken in
public that could ever be construed as a disturbance, how does having an
electronic device placed next to ones ear provide dispensation?

--

Bart

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu... In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu... In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: > >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>, >> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote: >> > >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message >news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu... >> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>, >> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote: >> >> >Draco wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit. >> >> > >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical? >> >> >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it? >> >> >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video running
inthe >> >car? >> >> Why do you ask? >> > >Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know who
actuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. 1) Begs the question. 2) Not true.Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. I
wasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did notswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory? My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.

I am a woman! If she was talking in a state where they require hands free, it
is illegal, if she was not using a hands free.
There are noise ordiances isn't there? Freedom to drive your neighbors insane
with loud music? Nope. That, poster, is against the law.
Our freedoms do not allow us to be obnoxious. They should be used as
respectfully as possible.
V
V

"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu...
.. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. 1) Begs the question. 2) Not true.

Is true. Why do you not believe that?
V

"Bart Bailey" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:41619b18.1539422@bart.spawar.mil... In Message-ID:<41618E32.B50285EB@aol.com> posted on Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:53:54 -0400, yaffaDina wrote: BeginI expected to be just as lovely was the stereotypical Winston Churchilllookalike baby Or Alfred Hitchcock <g>


Thats neither Winston or Alfred, its Uncle Fester

"V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Jfi8d.8371$%G.7145@news02.roc.ny... "tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu... In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>,> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:> >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> >> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>,> >> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:> >> >> >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message> >news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> >> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>,> >> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:> >> >> >Draco wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.> >> >> >> >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical?> >> >>> >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?> >> >>> >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video> >> >running inthe> >> >car?> >>> >> Why do you ask?> >>> >> >Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V>> Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor> of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know who actuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, andbeingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. 1) Begs the question. 2) Not true.Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. I wasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I didnotswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory? My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter. I am a woman! If she was talking in a state where they require hands free, it is illegal, if she was not using a hands free.

there are no ordinances anywhere that require you to be hands free
when you're a pedestrian. she wasn't driving her car into the DC metro
station.
There are noise ordiances isn't there? Freedom to drive your neighbors insane with loud music? Nope. That, poster, is against the law. Our freedoms do not allow us to be obnoxious. They should be used as respectfully as possible. V V

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:19:53 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote:
I am a woman! If she was talking in a state where they require hands free, itis illegal, if she was not using a hands free.There are noise ordiances isn't there? Freedom to drive your neighbors insanewith loud music? Nope. That, poster, is against the law.Our freedoms do not allow us to be obnoxious. They should be used asrespectfully as possible.VV


What states require pedestrians to use hands free cellphones?

"Bob Ward" <bobward@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5rp3m0t613e0crd0ndub961i1vqvnhbjhc@4ax.com...

snip What states require pedestrians to use hands free cellphones?
I know it is in my states legislation right now. Another few months and it
will be enacted. Remember, a municipality can enact their little
ordinances....also, tribal communties can enact their own laws.

Here is something to look at.....
http://www.nmoa.org/Products/phone.htm
Thirty-five states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico considered
measures to prohibit the use of hand-held mobile phones while driving.

New York recently became the first state to pass a law outlawing handheld
phones while driving.

At least 13 municipalities or counties have passed restrictions that require
drivers to use hands-free devices while operating a motor vehicle.

An estimated 300 additional local jurisdictions including Aspen, Colo.; Boca
Raton, Fla.; Santa Monica, Calif.; Philadelphia; Cleveland; and Chicago may be
considering or already have considered similar ordinances. New York City
prohibits taxicab drivers from using cell phones while driving.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:28:27 GMT, "V" <vbiggs@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"Bob Ward" <bobward@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:5rp3m0t613e0crd0ndub961i1vqvnhbjhc@4ax .com...snip What states require pedestrians to use hands free cellphones?I know it is in my states legislation right now. Another few months and itwill be enacted. Remember, a municipality can enact their littleordinances....also, tribal communties can enact their own laws.Here is something to look at.....http://www.nmoa.org/Products/phone.htmThirty-five states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico consideredmeasures to prohibit the use of hand-held mobile phones while driving.New York recently became the first state to pass a law outlawing handheldphones while driving.At least 13 municipalities or counties have passed restrictions that requiredrivers to use hands-free devices while operating a motor vehicle.An estimated 300 additional local jurisdictions including Aspen, Colo.; BocaRaton, Fla.; Santa Monica, Calif.; Philadelphia; Cleveland; and Chicago may beconsidering or already have considered similar ordinances. New York Cityprohibits taxicab drivers from using cell phones while driving.

You really don't read these messages before you reply, do you? Ignore
the words "hands free" for a moment and concentrate on the word
"pedestrian". No one is watching - move your lips if it will help.

Still no clue?

Main Entry: 1pe·des·tri·an
Pronunciation: p&-'des-trE-&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin pedestr-, pedester, literally, going on foot, from
ped-, pes foot -- more at FOOT
1 : COMMONPLACE, UNIMAGINATIVE
2 a : going or performed on foot b : of, relating to, or designed for
walking <a pedestrian mall

Does that help?

Joseph wrote:
If he's enforcing metro rules whether you think it's "constitutionally protected" is up for debate.

If the Metro is owned and operated by the government, it's not up for debate.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily think this is a First Amendment issue
anyhow.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

In message <10m3jcknlgfjmcc@corp.supernews.com> "Child"
<dawg@alaskaSPAMFREE.com> wrote:
I expected to be just as lovely was the stereotypical Winston Churchilllookalike baby Or Alfred Hitchcock <g>Thats neither Winston or Alfred, its Uncle Fester

Ouch.


--
I've given up on sigs. I just couldn't think of anything clever to say.

In article <dd73m059a77atarmbm0k0lube8cducfr6b@4ax.com>,
Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:On 4 Oct 2004 13:24:20 -0400, tjab@wam.umd.edu (tjab) wrote:My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.If he's enforcing metro rules whether you think it's "constitutionallyprotected" is up for debate. If you want to go on someone's propertyand not obey their rules you'll sometimes pay the price of yourdecision to not defer to their rules.

Metro is a government entity and subject to the Constitution.

In article <41629cb3.1950793@bart.spawar.mil>,
Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net> wrote:In Message-ID:<cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu> posted on 4 Oct 200413:24:20 -0400, tjab wrote: BeginMy theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.Curious;If there's some decibel level or grammatical content when spoken inpublic that could ever be construed as a disturbance, how does having anelectronic device placed next to ones ear provide dispensation?

Unlike what some here appear to believe, the fact that there was a cell
phone involved is utterly irrelevant. As for "construed as a disturbance,"
there are a great many things that might disturb you or me that are
nonetheless Constitutionally protected.

In article <Jfi8d.8371$%G.7145@news02.roc.ny>,
V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message news:cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu... In article <96J7d.8165$Gf6.5381@news02.roc.ny>, V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjn5ku$7b5@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> In article <Gpy7d.8126$n26.6468@news02.roc.ny>,> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:> >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in messagenews:cjl5lt$92j@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> >> In article <9so7d.5621$iR5.683@news01.roc.ny>,> >> V <vbiggs3255@nospamfrontiernet.net> wrote:> >> >> >> >"tjab" <tjab@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message> >news:cjl3co$6ri@rac1.wam.umd.edu...> >> >> In article <cjl30s$jag$1@ratbert.glorb.com>,> >> >> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:> >> >> >Draco wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> He tried to cuff her calmy, she chucked a hissy fit.> >> >> >> >> >> >Just so I understand: was she simply yelling, or did she getphysical?> >> >>> >> >> And whatever the answer, whose word are you taking for it?> >> >>> >> >Do you trust a reporter, a police report, or oh....the video runninginthe> >> >car?> >>> >> Why do you ask?> >>> >> >Why is it that you are asking, young grasshopper?Whose word are you taking?V>> Because I'm not aware that any reporter witnessed the incident, nor> of any video from a car. Are you?No. I have not seen it with my own eyes, so I simply do not know whoactuallywas the bad guy here, if there is one. Yet, studying criminals, and beingaround them, observing behavior, they usually like to fight thepolice......::shrug:: an issue they all seem to have in common. 1) Begs the question. 2) Not true.Perhaps it isthe crack cocaine or just a nasty case of hormones in a pregnant lady. Iwasmean to a cashier the day before I went into labor with my son. I did notswing at her, though.I wanted to so bad since she was so damn slo---------w.anyway....It does not seem that you are interested either, by the reply of ,..."And whatever the answer...."SO what is your theory? My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.I am a woman!

Your point?
If she was talking in a state where they require hands free, itis illegal, if she was not using a hands free.

What state outlaws *walking* with a cell phone to your ear?!
There are noise ordiances isn't there? Freedom to drive your neighbors insanewith loud music? Nope. That, poster, is against the law.

Was she charged under a noise ordinance?
Our freedoms do not allow us to be obnoxious.

Many times they do.

In Message-ID:<ck6ful$835@rac3.wam.umd.edu> posted on 8 Oct 2004
12:40:53 -0400, tjab wrote: Begin
In article <41629cb3.1950793@bart.spawar.mil>,Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net> wrote:In Message-ID:<cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu> posted on 4 Oct 200413:24:20 -0400, tjab wrote: BeginMy theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions withoutlistening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on acell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may berude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.Curious;If there's some decibel level or grammatical content when spoken inpublic that could ever be construed as a disturbance, how does having anelectronic device placed next to ones ear provide dispensation?Unlike what some here appear to believe, the fact that there was a cellphone involved is utterly irrelevant. As for "construed as a disturbance,"there are a great many things that might disturb you or me that arenonetheless Constitutionally protected.

I used the term "construed as a disturbance" to mean falling under legal
sanctions, regardless of my personal preferences.

(rhetorical)
Are the generally recognized proscriptions against such utterances as
the old "fire in a theater" or so-called "fighting words" rendered
inapplicable when a cell phone is employed in the scenario?
(/rhetorical)

--

Bart

In article <4166e057.4267923@bart.spawar.mil>,
Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net> wrote:In Message-ID:<ck6ful$835@rac3.wam.umd.edu> posted on 8 Oct 200412:40:53 -0400, tjab wrote: BeginIn article <41629cb3.1950793@bart.spawar.mil>,Bart Bailey <me2@privacy.net> wrote:In Message-ID:<cjs104$g8p@rac2.wam.umd.edu> posted on 4 Oct 200413:24:20 -0400, tjab wrote: Begin>My theory is that a lot of people here are expressing opinions without>listening to the woman's side of the story. And that talking loud on a>cell phone is Constitutionally protected free expression. It may be>rude, but it's not a legitimate police matter.Curious;If there's some decibel level or grammatical content when spoken inpublic that could ever be construed as a disturbance, how does having anelectronic device placed next to ones ear provide dispensation?Unlike what some here appear to believe, the fact that there was a cellphone involved is utterly irrelevant. As for "construed as a disturbance,"there are a great many things that might disturb you or me that arenonetheless Constitutionally protected.I used the term "construed as a disturbance" to mean falling under legalsanctions, regardless of my personal preferences.(rhetorical)Are the generally recognized proscriptions against such utterances asthe old "fire in a theater" or so-called "fighting words" renderedinapplicable when a cell phone is employed in the scenario?(/rhetorical)

I don't get your <rhetorical> point. I just said the cell phone was
irrelevant. As are your 'fire in a theater' and 'fighting words' scenarios,
neither of which apply here. But since you ask, "fighting words" delivered
over a cell phone seem unlikely to cause an immediate breach of the peace
as long as the caller is not in close proximity to the person to whom the
fighting words are directed. Such utterances would, I suspect, be protected
by the First Amendment.

This whole situation is dissapointing for many reasons. It's obveous that this young woman has little concern for others and is selfish to say the least. But I do believe she has the right to speak as she wishes. The rights of Americans are slowly being taken away. Granted, what about the rights of those who have to be around her?? My reply...They have a right to walk away. I believe there are such things as a true disturbance of the peace. But I fear that officer Saoutis is a little confussed about his role in this situation of his new career. Police Officers should be repected and for the most obeyed, they are supose to know best, right? Unfortunatley, this is not always the case. Sometimes lessons are hard learned for all. We need to look at our mistakes and be honest with ourselves! In this case, the officer became angry (makes for irrational discisions), the young woman became diffensive ( again, makes for irrational discisions), and a very avoidable situation occurs. They both need attutude adjustments. In the end... I think she had the right to speak her ugly, unwanted thoughts. From what I could tell from the article, she was not consitantly yelling or hurting anyone physically. The Officer maybe should have just, in concerned tones, talk to this woman for as long as need be till she calmed down. If you give people time and show them that you care things change, usually for the better. Isn't that what we all really want? A caring, concerned, old fashioned police officer? I know this world is messed up! It seems to get worse everyday... but the change must first start in the individual. We are each responsible to make that change. There difinately is need for force and discipline. This is much to often necessary! But in this case??????????

And you are resurrecting a four year old thread because...?

why not? :rolleyes:
Maybe I have a personal reason as
to why I would comment on this?
Are you going to take me in for
commenting, officer blog? :eek: