http://www.nj.com/news/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1080724556101450.xml

Heather Lindorff gets 6 years

Wednesday, March 31, 2004


By Laura Tull
ltull@sjnewsco.com

WOODBURY -- Over her pleas urging the court not to break up her family, Heather
Lindorff was sentenced to six years in state prison Tuesday for the abuse and
neglect of her deceased 5-year-old adopted Russian son.

The 39-year-old adoptive mother of five tearfully told the court, "my worst
fear is being taken away from them. I think I need them more than they need
me."


Soft sobs were heard from the audience where the five other children, also
adopted from Russia by Heather Lindorff and her husband James, sat in a row of
red faces, hugging each other and wiping away tears.

On December 22, a jury convicted Heather Lindorff, of Franklin Township, of
second degree endangering the welfare of a child in the December 14, 2001 death
of her 5-year-old adopted son, Jacob. She was acquitted of aggravated
manslaughter and aggravated assault charges.

Her husband, James Lindorff, 54, was sentenced to four years of probation and
400 hours of community service over four years for fourth degree child abuse.

The jury deliberated for less than three days.

The Lindorffs, once portrayed as a model for international adoptions, both
expressed remorse over the death of their son.

"Your honor, don't break up this family," James Lindorff implored the judge.
"This isn't the house of horrors that was portrayed by the Prosecutor's Office.


"I love all my children deeply and they love me. I feel that I've been a good
father. I deeply regret what happened to Jacob. There's nothing I can do to
change that," said James Lindorff.

Prior to sentencing, Superior Court Judge Julio Mendez denied defense motions
seeking a new trial and a judgment of acquittal for both the Lindorffs. Defense
attorneys argued that the judge improperly dismissed a lesser count of child
abuse against Heather Lindorff during the trial and that the state had withheld
discovery materials.

Heather Lindorff faced a maximum sentence of up to 10 years in state prison.

As the sentence was announced, James Lindorff put his arms around his wife and
held her close, his eyes closed. The couple seemed oblivious as the proceedings
continued around them.

The judge ordered Heather Lindorff to report to the Gloucester County Women's
Facility in Clarksboro on April 23 at 6 p.m. to begin her sentence. He agreed
to consider a defense request for bail pending her appeal.

Afterwards, Heather Lindorff went to her children, kneeling down to offer hugs
and comfort as they crowded around her crying, their faces flushed with
emotion.

Assistant Prosecutor Mary Pyffer called the sentence "very fair and
appropriate." She added, "We have a little boy that came into our country,
seemingly healthy, and six weeks later he was dead."

Prosecutors argued that the child died as a result of blunt force trauma to the
head, an injury consistent with child abuse. Jacob was also found to have
sustained second-degree burns on his feet, hemorrhaging in one eye, bruises
over his body. The state also claimed he suffered what appeared to be seizures.


Heather Lindorff was the primary caregiver for the couple's six adopted
children. Both burn injuries occurred under her sole care. She testified that
they were "accidental." However, "the jury found otherwise," said Pyffer.

Defendants are typically eligible for parole after serving a third of their
sentence -- that's two years in Heather Lindorff's case, said Pyffer.

With the exception of 20-year-old Jessica, the four Lindorff children ranging
in age from 8 to 13 remain in the custody of their maternal adoptive
grandmother.



-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

Thanks for posting this. I've been keeping an eye on the Matthey trial, and
had wondered what sentance Lindorff received.

Elizabeth Case

lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>... http://www.nj.com/news/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1080724556101450.xml Heather Lindorff gets 6 years Wednesday, March 31, 2004 By Laura Tull ltull@sjnewsco.com WOODBURY -- Over her pleas urging the court not to break up her family, Heather Lindorff was sentenced to six years in state prison Tuesday for the abuse and neglect of her deceased 5-year-old adopted Russian son. The 39-year-old adoptive mother of five tearfully told the court, "my worst fear is being taken away from them. I think I need them more than they need me." Soft sobs were heard from the audience where the five other children, also adopted from Russia by Heather Lindorff and her husband James, sat in a row of red faces, hugging each other and wiping away tears. On December 22, a jury convicted Heather Lindorff, of Franklin Township, of second degree endangering the welfare of a child in the December 14, 2001 death of her 5-year-old adopted son, Jacob. She was acquitted of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated assault charges. Her husband, James Lindorff, 54, was sentenced to four years of probation and 400 hours of community service over four years for fourth degree child abuse. The jury deliberated for less than three days. The Lindorffs, once portrayed as a model for international adoptions, both expressed remorse over the death of their son. "Your honor, don't break up this family," James Lindorff implored the judge. "This isn't the house of horrors that was portrayed by the Prosecutor's Office. "I love all my children deeply and they love me. I feel that I've been a good father. I deeply regret what happened to Jacob. There's nothing I can do to change that," said James Lindorff. Prior to sentencing, Superior Court Judge Julio Mendez denied defense motions seeking a new trial and a judgment of acquittal for both the Lindorffs. Defense attorneys argued that the judge improperly dismissed a lesser count of child abuse against Heather Lindorff during the trial and that the state had withheld discovery materials. Heather Lindorff faced a maximum sentence of up to 10 years in state prison. As the sentence was announced, James Lindorff put his arms around his wife and held her close, his eyes closed. The couple seemed oblivious as the proceedings continued around them. The judge ordered Heather Lindorff to report to the Gloucester County Women's Facility in Clarksboro on April 23 at 6 p.m. to begin her sentence. He agreed to consider a defense request for bail pending her appeal. Afterwards, Heather Lindorff went to her children, kneeling down to offer hugs and comfort as they crowded around her crying, their faces flushed with emotion. Assistant Prosecutor Mary Pyffer called the sentence "very fair and appropriate." She added, "We have a little boy that came into our country, seemingly healthy, and six weeks later he was dead." Prosecutors argued that the child died as a result of blunt force trauma to the head, an injury consistent with child abuse. Jacob was also found to have sustained second-degree burns on his feet, hemorrhaging in one eye, bruises over his body. The state also claimed he suffered what appeared to be seizures. Heather Lindorff was the primary caregiver for the couple's six adopted children. Both burn injuries occurred under her sole care. She testified that they were "accidental." However, "the jury found otherwise," said Pyffer. Defendants are typically eligible for parole after serving a third of their sentence -- that's two years in Heather Lindorff's case, said Pyffer. With the exception of 20-year-old Jessica, the four Lindorff children ranging in age from 8 to 13 remain in the custody of their maternal adoptive grandmother.

Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in the
eyes of Americans.

Di



------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>...
Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in theeyes of Americans.Di

Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio
children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REAL parents
are beating their own sprogs to death.


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

In article <20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>,
lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote:

WOODBURY -- Over her pleas urging the court not to break up her family, Heather Lindorff was sentenced to six years in state prison Tuesday for the abuse and neglect of her deceased 5-year-old adopted Russian son.


Add a zero to the 6 years; that'd be enough.




steve

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 8:01 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>

< snip >
Russian children are obviously not worth much as humanbeings in the eyes of Americans.Di


This from the same woman who objected to the "Mother Kills Child" news
articles recently posted by Marla. I guess no such generalizations are to be
taken from those stories.

Tell me, Diane, do you make these ridiculous assertions because you are...

[ ] stoopid
[ } lonely and need some attention
[ } just wanna piss certain people off

You can check more than one, if applicable.

Dad

adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad) wrote in message news:<20040403054330.18872.00000515@mb-m20.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 8:01 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com> < snip >Russian children are obviously not worth much as humanbeings in the eyes of Americans.Di This from the same woman who objected to the "Mother Kills Child" news articles recently posted by Marla.

WHO objected to them? not I. So stop lying.







I guess no such generalizations are to be taken from those stories. Tell me, Diane, do you make these ridiculous assertions because you are... [ ] stoopid [ } lonely and need some attention [ } just wanna piss certain people off You can check more than one, if applicable. Dad


Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian children to death
should:

[ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail?
[ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money?
[ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money?
[ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death?

You can tick more than one if applicable.

Di

lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20040402232023.22317.00000623@mb-m14.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>...Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in theeyes of Americans.Di Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REAL parents are beating their own sprogs to death.
Oh I see where you're coming from. You're protecting adopter's equal
right to kill their achildren, whereas I was referring to the US
judicial system that gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.
















------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

In article <9a095db9.0404040346.1073ef53@posting.google.com>, Dian says...lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20040402232023.22317.00000623@mb-m14.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>...Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in theeyes of Americans.Di Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REAL parents are beating their own sprogs to death.Oh I see where you're coming from. You're protecting adopter's equalright to kill their achildren, whereas I was referring to the USjudicial system that gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.

Is that what you were doing? I thought you were just doing your usual slam
dance against all Americans in general.

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: Robibnikoff nospam@newsranger.comDate: 4/4/04 6:53 AM Mountain Daylight TimeMessage-id: <lzTbc.531$H4.113@www.newsranger.com>In article <9a095db9.0404040346.1073ef53@posting.google.com>, Dian says...lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402232023.22317.00000623@mb-m14.aol.com>... >Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 years >From: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) >Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com> > >lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message >news:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>... >Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in the >eyes of Americans. > >Di Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REALparents are beating their own sprogs to death.Oh I see where you're coming from. You're protecting adopter's equalright to kill their achildren, whereas I was referring to the USjudicial system that gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.Is that what you were doing? I thought you were just doing your usual slamdance against all Americans in general.Robyn

That's how I read it as well.


-------------------------
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!"
-----Unknown

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/4/04 4:46 AM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404040346.1073ef53@posting.google.com>lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402232023.22317.00000623@mb-m14.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in messagenews:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>...Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in theeyes of Americans.Di Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REALparents are beating their own sprogs to death.Oh I see where you're coming from.

No, you don't see where Marla is coming from.
You're protecting adopter's equalright to kill their achildren, whereas I was referring to the USjudicial system that gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.

You're delusional.



Diane Welfare, "she describes the US market as a "$US1.4 billion business in
baby trafficking". ~~121603
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336884771.html

patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian children to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death? You can tick more than one if applicable. Di

There's recently been a case where a woman who killed two of her sons,
and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted. Mental illness.

Rupa

lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20040404094854.17901.00000646@mb-m21.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: Robibnikoff nospam@newsranger.comDate: 4/4/04 6:53 AM Mountain Daylight TimeMessage-id: <lzTbc.531$H4.113@www.newsranger.com>In article <9a095db9.0404040346.1073ef53@posting.google.com>, Dian says...lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message news:<20040402232023.22317.00000623@mb-m14.aol.com>...> >Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 years> >From: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)> >Date: 4/2/04 6:01 PM Mountain Standard Time> >Message-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com>> >> >lilmtncbn@aol.comnospam (LilMtnCbn) wrote in message> >news:<20040402092028.03813.00000507@mb-m01.aol.com>...> >Russian children are obviously not worth much as human beings in the> >eyes of Americans.> >> >Di>> Oh please. There are plenty of Aussies who don't think they're own bio> children are worth much. But that's ok, right? As long as the REAL parents> are beating their own sprogs to death.>Oh I see where you're coming from. You're protecting adopter's equalright to kill their achildren, whereas I was referring to the USjudicial system that gave them a slap on the wrist for doing so.Is that what you were doing? I thought you were just doing your usual slamdance against all Americans in general.Robyn That's how I read it as well.


Ditto.
One would be hard put to interpret it any other way.



Rh. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)Date: 4/4/04 3:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeMessage-id: <e5619372.0404041124.326fec70@posting.google.com>patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russianchildren to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death? You can tick more than one if applicable. DiThere's recently been a case where a woman who killed twoof her sons, and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted.Mental illness.

She MUST have been an adopter.

There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two of her
children to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had some kind
of religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter.

I don't know what point Di is trying to make here. Is she claiming that
adoptive parents somehow abuse their children more than biological parents? Is
she saying that adoptive parents receive lighter sentences for child abuse than
biological parents?

Dad

"AdoptaDad" <adoptadad@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040404162421.03836.00000640@mb-m29.aol.com...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)Date: 4/4/04 3:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeMessage-id: <e5619372.0404041124.326fec70@posting.google.com>patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russianchildren to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to
death? You can tick more than one if applicable. DiThere's recently been a case where a woman who killed twoof her sons, and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted.Mental illness. She MUST have been an adopter. There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two of
her children to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had some
kind of religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter.

Sh was acquitted by reason of insanity, and will probably sit in a maximum
security mental facility for a long stretch.

Ron I don't know what point Di is trying to make here. Is she claiming that adoptive parents somehow abuse their children more than biological
parents? Is she saying that adoptive parents receive lighter sentences for child abuse
than biological parents? Dad

"Dian" <patrice068@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9a095db9.0404040104.5c0a6fd8@posting.google.c om... adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad) wrote in message
news:<20040403054330.18872.00000515@mb-m20.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/2/04 8:01 PM Eastern Standard TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404021701.10dc4969@posting.google.com> < snip >Russian children are obviously not worth much as humanbeings in the eyes of Americans.Di This from the same woman who objected to the "Mother Kills Child" news articles recently posted by Marla. WHO objected to them? not I. So stop lying. I guess no such generalizations are to be taken from those stories. Tell me, Diane, do you make these ridiculous assertions because you
are... [ ] stoopid [ } lonely and need some attention [ } just wanna piss certain people off You can check more than one, if applicable. Dad Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian children to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death? You can tick more than one if applicable.

We only have uniform sentencing guidlines for federal crimes, most of them
drug related. BTW, these uniform sentences are under attack from a variety
of groups, including judges. There is nothing in statute that treats the
death of a Russian child as less than any other. If you have a beef with the
sentence, then you should work to unseat the judge in the case, whose
interpretation of law determined the sentence, not some flaw in the law.

Ron

Di

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad)Date: 4/4/04 1:24 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <20040404162421.03836.00000640@mb-m29.aol.com>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)Date: 4/4/04 3:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeMessage-id: <e5619372.0404041124.326fec70@posting.google.com>patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russianchildren to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death? You can tick more than one if applicable. DiThere's recently been a case where a woman who killed twoof her sons, and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted.Mental illness. She MUST have been an adopter. There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two of herchildren to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had some kindof religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter. I don't know what point Di is trying to make here. Is she claiming thatadoptive parents somehow abuse their children more than biological parents?

Heads, tails, this is what I think Di might be eluding to. She thinks that it
is unfair that we give lighter sentences to murdering adoptive parents than
those biological mothers that will put their children in harm's way by selling
their children. Of course, the fuel behind her fire is her hatred of adoptive
parents at large, and her own unresolved conflicts with her son's
relinquishment.

In other words, it is somehow America's fault that we don't understand poor
Di's mental anguish at adopters at large?




Diane Welfare, "she describes the US market as a "$US1.4 billion business in
baby trafficking". ~~121603
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336884771.html

"Ron Morgan" <rhyzome1@earthlink.net> wrote There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two of her children to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had some kind of religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter. Sh was acquitted by reason of insanity, and will probably sit in a maximum security mental facility for a long stretch. Ron

One would hope.

What became of the woman who drowned her 5 young sons? Did she go into
a mental hospital as well?

Rupa

meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy) wrote in message news:<20040404191350.03836.00000663@mb-m29.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad)Date: 4/4/04 1:24 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <20040404162421.03836.00000640@mb-m29.aol.com>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)Date: 4/4/04 3:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeMessage-id: <e5619372.0404041124.326fec70@posting.google.com>patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote>> Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian>children to death should:>> [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail?> [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money?> [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money?> [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death?>> You can tick more than one if applicable.>> DiThere's recently been a case where a woman who killed twoof her sons, and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted.Mental illness. She MUST have been an adopter. There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two of herchildren to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had some kindof religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter. I don't know what point Di is trying to make here. Is she claiming thatadoptive parents somehow abuse their children more than biological parents? Heads, tails, this is what I think Di might be eluding to. She thinks that it is unfair that we give lighter sentences to murdering adoptive parents than those biological mothers that will put their children in harm's way by selling their children.

Which mothers would they be, Kathy? Russian mothers? Chinese mothers?
Exactly
which ones you are alluding to?

Di


Of course, the fuel behind her fire is her hatred of adoptive parents at large, and her own unresolved conflicts with her son's relinquishment.

You mean as opposed to your total indifference to the death of
adoptees?
Afterall, there but for the grace of God that dead child might have
been your own. Your utter indifference to the fate of so many adopted
children speaks volumes.



















In other words, it is somehow America's fault that we don't understand poor Di's mental anguish at adopters at large?






Diane Welfare, "she describes the US market as a "$US1.4 billion business in baby trafficking". ~~121603 http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336884771.html

Rupa, the woman Andrea Yates is in prison for life. I do not think there
is a chance for parole for her.

jmf

**top post**

I can only surmise that Di thinks in the US people who beat adoptees from
Russia to death get some sort of preferential treatment by state criminal
courts over people who beat other children to death.

More lunacy.

Di posts:
Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian children to death should: [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail? [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money? [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids to death? You can tick more than one if applicable. Di



P2P

Ron writes to Di:

<snip>
There is nothing in statute that treats thedeath of a Russian child as less than any other. >

<snip>

No, no, no, Ron. You have missed the point entirely! Di believes adoptive
parents get preferential treatment in the courts, silly. In other words,
adoptive parents can do crime but rarely do time. It's all part of the Grand
Conspiracy. You need to start reading your memos better.


P2P

>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian)Date: 4/5/04 2:49 AM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <9a095db9.0404050149.3d3d1d83@posting.google.com>meagan787@aol.comsthesun (Kathy) wrote in messagenews:<20040404191350.03836.00000663@mb-m29.aol.com>...Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 yearsFrom: adoptadad@aol.com (AdoptaDad)Date: 4/4/04 1:24 PM Pacific Daylight TimeMessage-id: <20040404162421.03836.00000640@mb-m29.aol.com>>Subject: Re: Heather Lindorff gets 6 years>From: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose)>Date: 4/4/04 3:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time>Message-id: <e5619372.0404041124.326fec70@posting.google.com>>>patrice068@optusnet.com.au (Dian) wrote>>>> Tell me, Dad, do you believe adopters who abuse Russian>>children to death should:>>>> [ ] get a 6 year sentence spending only 2 years actually in jail?>> [ ] get the same sentence as those who defraud Pap's out of money?>> [ ] get a longer sentence than those who defraud Pap's out of money?>> [ ] get the same sentence as those who abuse NON-Russian kids todeath?>>>> You can tick more than one if applicable.>>>> Di>>There's recently been a case where a woman who killed two>of her sons, and left the 2-yr-old maimed, was acquitted.>Mental illness. She MUST have been an adopter. There was a recent news story about a mother in Texas who stoned two ofherchildren to death, leaving another in crtitical condition. She had somekindof religious delusion. No doubt, another adopter. I don't know what point Di is trying to make here. Is she claiming thatadoptive parents somehow abuse their children more than biologicalparents? Heads, tails, this is what I think Di might be eluding to. She thinks thatit is unfair that we give lighter sentences to murdering adoptive parents than those biological mothers that will put their children in harm's way byselling their children.Which mothers would they be, Kathy? Russian mothers? Chinese mothers?Exactlywhich ones you are alluding to?DiOf course, the fuel behind her fire is her hatred of adoptive parents at large, and her own unresolved conflicts with her son's relinquishment.You mean as opposed to your total indifference to the death ofadoptees?Afterall, there but for the grace of God that dead child might havebeen your own. Your utter indifference to the fate of so many adoptedchildren speaks volumes.

You are very ill.


Diane Welfare, "she describes the US market as a "$US1.4 billion business in
baby trafficking". ~~121603
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336884771.html

Rupa,
I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of her children
(five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. I do
not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed
with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally insane.

jmf

jenniefuller@webtv.net (Jennie Fuller) wrote in message news:<24822-4072DD3A-441@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net>... Rupa, I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of her children (five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. I do not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally insane. jmf

Thanks! I couldn't recall what happened in that case.

Rupa

"Rupa Bose" <rkbose@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:e5619372.0404061902.25915e3f@posting.google.c om... jenniefuller@webtv.net (Jennie Fuller) wrote in message
news:<24822-4072DD3A-441@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net>... Rupa, I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of her children (five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. I do not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally insane. jmf Thanks! I couldn't recall what happened in that case. Rupa

The judge and jury in the Yates case was disinclined to believe that she fit
the criteria of insanity (didn't realize the consequences of her actions)
since she tried to blame the killings on a fictional black male.

Ron

"Ron Morgan" <rhyzome1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:flpdc.2713$A_4.501@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net... "Rupa Bose" <rkbose@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message news:e5619372.0404061902.25915e3f@posting.google.c om... jenniefuller@webtv.net (Jennie Fuller) wrote in message news:<24822-4072DD3A-441@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net>... Rupa, I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of her
children (five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. I
do not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally insane. jmf Thanks! I couldn't recall what happened in that case. Rupa The judge and jury in the Yates case was disinclined to believe that she
fit the criteria of insanity (didn't realize the consequences of her actions) since she tried to blame the killings on a fictional black male. Ron

Hmm, Ron. That's not Andrea Yates, but the Smith woman down south.
However, the jury was still disinclined to believe she fit the legal
definition of insanity, though she was certainly medically insane--unless
you're one of those people who don't' believe in insanity.

Marley

"Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:oIpdc.63415$He5.1215641@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... "Ron Morgan" <rhyzome1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:flpdc.2713$A_4.501@newsread1.news.pas.earthli nk.net... "Rupa Bose" <rkbose@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message news:e5619372.0404061902.25915e3f@posting.google.c om... jenniefuller@webtv.net (Jennie Fuller) wrote in message news:<24822-4072DD3A-441@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net>... > Rupa, > I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of her children > (five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. I do > not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed > with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally
insane. > > jmf Thanks! I couldn't recall what happened in that case. Rupa The judge and jury in the Yates case was disinclined to believe that she fit the criteria of insanity (didn't realize the consequences of her
actions) since she tried to blame the killings on a fictional black male. Ron Hmm, Ron. That's not Andrea Yates, but the Smith woman down south.

Oops, you're right. Can't keep these bio-mom killers straight...
However, the jury was still disinclined to believe she fit the legal definition of insanity, though she was certainly medically insane--unless you're one of those people who don't' believe in insanity.

I believe in insanity, and should I forget that I believe in insanity the
Morrisseys regular posts to alt.adoption would snap me out of my torpor.

Ron Marley

In article <oIpdc.63415$He5.1215641@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marley Greiner" <maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net> writes:
"Ron Morgan" <rhyzome1@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:flpdc.2713$A_4.501@newsread1.news.pas. earthlink.net... "Rupa Bose" <rkbose@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message news:e5619372.0404061902.25915e3f@posting.google.c om... jenniefuller@webtv.net (Jennie Fuller) wrote in message news:<24822-4072DD3A-441@storefull-3332.bay.webtv.net>... > Rupa, > I made a mistake. The woman Andrea Yates who killed all of herchildren > (five of them I believe) by drowning, received 40 years in prison. Ido > not know if there is a chance for parole. Although she was diagnosed > with post partum depression, the jury did not find her legally insane. > > jmf Thanks! I couldn't recall what happened in that case. Rupa The judge and jury in the Yates case was disinclined to believe that shefit the criteria of insanity (didn't realize the consequences of her actions) since she tried to blame the killings on a fictional black male. RonHmm, Ron. That's not Andrea Yates, but the Smith woman down south.However, the jury was still disinclined to believe she fit the legaldefinition of insanity, though she was certainly medically insane--unlessyou're one of those people who don't' believe in insanity.Marley

When it's the rule, rather than the exception? How could we not believe in
insanity?

J.
Fairly insane himself of late.





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